Still losing weight

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ChinMommyFL

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My husband started a Thread titled "Odd Weight Loss" about a week or so ago regarding our White Mosaic, DJ. DJ had lost some weight and during his annual exam, he had some labwork/bloodwork done, which showed no significant findings. DJ was gassed down with isofluorane/oxygen and his teeth were then looked at with an otoscope. Again, no significant findings.

During his playtime, my husband and I noticed that DJ had some odd noises coming from his stomach. We were not sure what it was, so everytime that happened, we gave him a gram of Benebac and called it a day.

A month after his annual, we notice that DJ is losing even more weight. He went from ~720g to ~500. I took him to work with me, gassed him down with iso/O2 and took an xray. Sure enough, I saw a belly full of poop that was extremely backed up. I called my husband and he drove DJ down to see our exotics vet as an emergency. Vet confirmed Stasis, and prescribed Cisapride, Reglan, SQ Fluids and Simethicone gas drops.

Some of you suggested he may have Giardia. I did a snap, which showed a weak positive. I sent some of his feces to the lab, and they confirmed Giardia. I started DJ on Flagyl twice a day, along with all of his other meds and force fed him Critical Care.

2 days later I give the vet who is treating him (not my usual vet, she was unavailable) an update. She tells me to discontinue the Flagyl as well as all of his other meds (which he was only on for 4 days at this point.) She also told me to offer him fresh greens.

I didn't trust this advice, so I took it upon myself to continue his meds until all of the Cisapride was done, and I did the Flagyl for 5 days. Unfortunately, DJ is still losing weight (he is now down to 465g) and refuses to eat. I have tried Critical Care, Fresh Timothy Hay, treats (which I know is not good, but at least he'd be eating something) Lifeline & DYNE (which he has a mild interest in)-I don't know what do to anymore.

Tomorrow morning he will be going back to the vet, and we will be seeing my usual vet this time (or so I was told.) For those of you who have treated Chins with Giardia, how long did you treat them for? How long did you administer Flagyl, and for stasis, how long did you administer Reglan? I am out of Cisapride, but I have plenty of Reglan left, and I have been giving DJ Simethicone drops whenever I hear his stomach gurgling.

Also, I am wondering if his weight loss could be from depression? He is separated from his cagemate these days (for quarantine reasons obviously, from the Giardia.) I know he needs to remain separated until he is clear of Giardia, but I'm also wondering if putting him back in his normal cage with his brother will make him happy enough to eat?

*sigh* I'm sorry for the tl:dr, but I just don't know what to do anymore.
 
ChinMommyFL said:
For those of you who have treated Chins with Giardia, how long did you treat them for? How long did you administer Flagyl, and for stasis, how long did you administer Reglan? I am out of Cisapride, but I have plenty of Reglan left, and I have been giving DJ Simethicone drops whenever I hear his stomach gurgling.
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I have treated Giardia before. My vet had me use Panacur for 5 days, skip 2 weeks(I think), then 5 more days, skip 2 weeks, and 5 more days.

I hope someone else can help you out with your stasis questions.

And I hope DJ gets better!!
 
Giardia is becoming more resistant to the drugs out there. When I treated it the drug was albendozle and it was 5 days on, 3 days off, 5 days on. There are other parasites that can cause issues also. To me it sounds like the chin has not recieved enough of the flagyl to kill whatever parasite it has. I would run a full course of the 5 days on, 3 off, 5 on then recheck, if still present I would change drugs. Reinfection is also a issue when treating giardia.
 
Just sterilized the cage and rather than sand down the 20-odd square feet of shelving I just replaced it all (it was getting due for a refresh/replacement anyway). His cagemate was giardia-negative, so the environment was hopefully not that bad to begin with (and with new shelves should be good as new).

We'll do another series of flagyl to ensure it's all gone. He had a fecal today and was giardia-negative, but better safe than sorry.

We're still concerned about his weight. The Vet said he was gassy but had motility, so to continue the simethicone as needed. She also said to keep up the critical care, but he doesn't seem to want to eat it. Lifeline/dyne he'll pick at, but not eat with much gusto.

Any suggestions for making critical care more appetizing? He's now picking at his pellets and hay--and has plenty of each available to him--but we're seriously concerned about halting his weight loss.
 
my one chin does NOT like critical care at all. he knows the second i try to mix some in.

instead of the critical care I use his pellets. I crush them with a coffee grinder, mix with water and then add a little baby food squash or canned pumpkin to improve the taste & consistency. in the beginnng i also used a very very small amount of apple/pear baby food, like 1 teaspoon. that got him to like the taste. make sure it is thick enough to be mostly pellets but not too watery. When my boy was first diagnosed with malo and wasnt eating, i was able to get 140 cc's into him a day. now i give him about 40 - 60 cc's a day to maintain his weight.

you can also mix the lifeline in with the pellets.......that could improve the taste.
be careful with the dyne it is very sugary and does not help if given to much to a chin with digestive issues. i would also continue the simethicone.
 
Yeah, we were mostly resorting to dyne as a last-resort weight gain thing. It's helped one of our other chins who was having weight issues, but I think DJ's problems are a bit more extensive.

I'll definitely try the pellet thing though--sounds promising!
 
make sure it isnt too thick, otherwise you wont be able to get it into the syringe.
even if you mix half pellet & half critical care?? my chin knows when I do that and as soon as he smells the CC, he turns his head!! i also start my feeding with a little syringe of the Lifeline that usually gets him interested, than i give meds, than i do the feeding.
 
I would choose to use Dyne over baby food. Ranchers have used Dyne for a long time with no effects. Fruit is fruit, whether it's baby food or whole fruit. Of any of the things you've listed, I would use the pumpkin and that's it. You can also try adding black strap molasses and see if that helps. You don't need much, just a very small drizzle.

Are you forcefeeding your chin? It almost sounds like you are offering it to him in a bowl and he's not interested. Lots of chins aren't interested in mushy food, so they get forcefed whether they like it or not. They don't like being forcefed, but they adjust.

Tanya sells a product called ESL that some chins prefer over the CC. I have a girl here hand feeding that was getting pretty tired of the critical care and was not gaining weight. I got the ESL and she's doing better again, so now I alternate between the two. That might be something to check into as well.
 
ESL? Also, not familiar with Tanya...can you provide a link? :)


We're forcefeeding as much as possible without actually shoving the syringe in his mouth and pushing the plunger--restraining him and bringing an mL to his mouth usually works with the other chins. It may be that he was too depressed and gassy to feel like eating before, so I'm hopeful things will improve for tonight.
 
Unless he is an extremely cooperative chin he will not just take the Critical Care willingly so you'll have to wrap him up in a thin towel (I use fleece baby blankets b/c they're thin and stretchy) and burrito him so all that is sticking out is his head. All four feet have to be confined and then once you have all his limbs tucked in you can put him on your lap and gently syringe the CC into his mouth.

There's a little space right beside his front teeth that works well for a syringe. Thinning out the formula also helps with better flow. He won't like being constrained but he'll get used to it and eventually will give in. It also helps to have all your equipment ready for feeding instead of trying to fuss with it while you're holding your chin. Using a carrier to put them in while you regroup works good too and it gives them some breaks.

I've had to force feed three chins, two were not too bad and one was like wrestling a German Shepherd and he really needed to be burritoed quite snug and I did have to give him lots of little breaks.
 
I guess our last one spoiled us--he'd just sit on his butt and grab the syringe and eat like a baby with his bottle. Our other chin will eat quite literally anything--he's the antithesis of picky. :rofl:

We haven't tried burrito-ing outside of giving him some meds...we'll give this a shot!
 
It is tough to see them all wrapped up and helpless, maybe a bit freaked out and they drop fluff and their faces and chins are a mess but you just have to remember that it is for their own good. They probably will never like being manhandled like this but they will tolerate it and it does get easier with practice.

Food in equals poops out. Little malformed poops at first and then bigger better formed poops with the more he is forced to eat. It's a wonderful feeling to see all those poops on a blanket and if you're like me, you'll count each and every one.
 
Yeah, that's really the hard bit. This guy likes to thrash too--when we burritoed him for his meds he was fighting and trying to get out, then squealed and went still. We were suitably freaked and thought he might have broken something, but after we X-Rayed him we found he was intact--either he just strained himself or flipped out.


Edit: Ah, I found Tanya's store...ESL = Essentials for Life syringe feed?

Looks interesting...might pick that up if he's still intransigent tonight.
 
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You do want to be careful that he doesn't thrash around too much b/c he could injure himself. If you don't have any of those thin stretchy fleece baby blankets then get a thin bath towel and wrap him up in that. I found the back feet were much easier to restrain than the little front feet that kept slipping out all of the time so you might want to wrap the towel a few times around those front feet. Once he's totally bound he won't be able to thrash around and will be forced to stay still while you 'gently' syringe him with the CC.

When I had to hand/force feed a chin, I set everything up in my living room before I even brought the chin out of his carrier: sheet draped on couch, all syringes filled and ready to go and plenty of face cloths to mop up the mess. I didn't worry too much about cleaning the chins' faces b/c they'd clean that up themselves later.
 
Lay a towel across your chest, put him on the towel, almost to one edge, on his tummy. Make sure the towel is level with his neck and covers his feet. Quickly wrap the long end around, tucking the short end in and wrapping the long end around again. Then place his head between your thumb and first finger, with the back of his head in your palm, and his body between your arm and your side. It works great, restrains well, and they have no struggle room.
 
I think I mentioned in your other thread that after you get DJ to a point when he can be vet checked again I would get dental x-rays done. All the best in his recovery!
 
Parker, I took DJ to the Vet on Tuesday morning, and we did a skull xray under anesthesia to check his teeth. They were perfect. The Dr. agreed with my intuition and suggested that he may very well be depressed. We have placed him back in the big cage (after ripping out all the old wood, replacing it and sanding/bleaching all of his toys) and then he happily chirped and ate his pellets. :dance3: So I will be force feeding him Critical Care any free chance I get. Thanks again to everyone who has responded.
 
That is great news! I am glad he is on the road to recovery :)).
 
He's getting there. He had some bad gas buildup the second night; we gave him some simethicone and tummy rubs, but he had to ride it out--he found a comfortable spot sleeping on their Saucer so that he was basically upside down. We stayed near to make sure he was OK, but his cagemate/'brother' one-upped us--he actually sat next to the wheel watching DJ for over an hour, one paw on the saucer holding it steady. It was really too cute/sweet for words.

Gas is now well under control, and he's pooping some (albeit small) semi-regularly. We're just trying to get enough food into him to allow weight gain. I think I'll pick up some of the other flavor of CC this weekend (banana?) to see if he likes that better.
 
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