Kiss I applaud you for coming forward with the info, and its great that you are doing everything right (no selling, not showing, testing, comparing results, etc) The problem I have and we should all have with this whole thing is.....Kiss got it from somewhere, is the person she got if from still selling or showing or treating or whatever? we don't know. and how about where that person got it from? same questions there, we don't know the answers, the problem here is, its obviously very resistant to treatment and can keep coming back so how many carriers are out there right now?? Another question we can't answer, and I realize all these things take time and research and testing to figure out, but aside from that there are so many other variables that we can't even calculate due to the fact that we don't know what OTHER breeders are doing, Kiss is doing the right thing, but what about the whole line of them that it took to get to her???? and what about everyone else that whole line has sold to or shown beside or whatever the case may be?? We aren't at an epidemic here yet, however the concern is very real and very widespread about just how many of us are in posession of carriers?? I'm very worried for the state of the whole Chin community right now because of all these unknown variables.
Choob99, I think at this point we are all better served by trying to find the best treatment and make sure everyone has access to the information they need rather than trying to point fingers or assign blame. I know which breeder I got it from and I am pretty sure I know which breeder that breeder got it from, but I am not going to be party to ruining anyone's reputation or casting doubt on anyone's herd. I will not post this information anywhere. Rebuilding the reputation of my herd will take long enough, I will not inflict that on anyone else. Despite all of the attaboys I have gotten here, how many people here would be willing to buy an animal from my herd within the next year knowing that this has been in my herd? I have a feeling that most people would have to think really hard about it first and would then likely hold off a year or two waiting to see if this comes back. This fear and lack of understanding will do far more harm to people's herd and the chinchilla industry than this disease ever will.
A lot of the ranchers, both old and new, have been talking privately and comparing notes, so the number of unknowns is decreasing. Ideally the scientist in me would like to know how this all started, but really as long as we know how it is passed and how to treat it, we are fine.
I would like to remind everyone that I am not a vet. I have a PhD in chemistry with a strong background in biochemistry and molecular biology. I am working closely with my vet and spending large amounts of time reading all of the veterinary literature and microbiology literature that is even slightly related that I can find. My goal is to share my findings for the literature searches and my personal experiences with my herd with the rest of the chinchilla industry.
Right now it looks like the term carrier with respect to this disease is a bit confusing. Horses can be carriers of the strep equi sub equi bacteria (as opposed to strep equi sub zoo which we are dealing with) in their guttural pouch. Chinchillas don't have a guttural pouch or any similar structure that makes a good place for bacteria to lay dormant. Instead it is likely that some chins have a low level infection that don't show any symptoms and then when the chin with the low level infection is stressed the bacteria is allowed to multiply and is shed, at which point other chinchillas pick it up. The chin with the low level infection often doesn't show any signs, even when stressed because their system has learned to deal with the bacteria, though hasn't managed to completely rid itself of it. Not all of the chins exposed to this or even that have had this are "carriers" or have a low level infection. I think, and at this point it is purely my opinion, that it is likely that the chinchillas that just develop the goopy, pus filled eye or eyes are the ones more likely to continue to have a low level infection and so act like the "carriers" that everyone is worried about. In my herd some of the chins that get just the goopy eyes are the hardest to clear up and often re-occur whereas those that get the abscesses don't. I have not yet had a chin that abscessed and then healed show up with another abscess, even when caged with another animal that is contagious at a later date. The chins with the goopy eyes often do re-occur, some times months after I thought it was cleared up and usually after something has stressed them. So to summarize, some chins pick up this bacteria and develop this disease and then are fine having cleared their system of bacteria and they may be immune to getting this again, while others develop the disease and appear to recover but never completely rid their system of this bacteria so it can flare up again later or be shed to other chins.
Now for the good news, all of the chins with abscesses in my herd that I treated with gentamicin subcutaneously have completely recovered. The abscesses, including those that were big enough that they would normally be lanced and drained have completely disappeared. The abscesses that I left untreated as a control increased in size and eventually ruptured themselves, these chins have recovered just fine, but it took much longer than the ones treated with gentamicin. Unfortunately treating with the gentamicin in the water did not work, the chins won't drink it even with apple juice or other flavoring added. I did have 2 that have had the re-occurant goopy eyes die, sadly they were two of my sapphires. I have not yet lost any chin that has had only the abscess, the goopy eyes seems to be the bigger problem. Since it is impossible to tell which chins have a low level infection or have not yet started showing signs of sickness, I treated my whole herd with the gentamicin at the beginning of this week and so far I am very happy with the results. To make it easy for those that don't want to read my novel the treatment I used was as follows, a rationalization follows:
Treatment:
chinchillas not showing any signs or symptoms - one dose of gentamicin, ~20mg/kg subcutaneously
chinchillas with abscess only - 4 days of once a day dose of gentamicin, ~10mg/kg subcutaneously (small abscesses are left alone, large abscesses are drained and cleaned daily as needed)
chinchillas with goopy eyes with or without abscess - 4 days of once a day dose of gentamicin, ~10mg/kg subcutaneously + gentamicin eye ointment once a day until after the eye has cleared up completely
Rational:
Since it is impossible to tell chins with a low level infection from those without the single large dose of gentamicin was given to all of the animals in my herd and will likely be given to any new animals I purchase before I bring them into my herd. As long as the chinchilla is not showing symptoms it is likely that the level of strep equi sub zoo is low and so can easily be treated by a single large dose of gentamicin. Gentamicin is a concentration toxin to bacteria instead of an exposure toxin, so it is reasonable to treat low levels of infection with a single large dose.
Chins with abscesses, the level of bacteria in their system is higher than those that have a low level infection and show no symptoms so they need a longer term dosage of gentamicin. There is some concern with liver damage when using gentamicin so the duration used should be the minimum that is effective. Liver damage generally occurs when gentamicin is used daily or twice daily for more than a week or when the animal is severely dehydrated. In literature and in horses it has been shown that using a slightly higher dosage for a shorter time is just as effective as using lower dosage for longer, which is why I am using ~10mg/kg for 4 days as opposed to the ~5mg/kg once or twice a day for a week that is often suggested for chinchillas.
Chins with goopy eyes, the subcutaneously gentamicin alone does not always completely clear up the goopy eyes. So far in my herd and one other that I know of the subcutaneous treatment only completely cleared up about half of the cases of goopy eyes, the others improved significantly but didn't clear up completely. It is possible that the bacteria is infecting the tear duct, making it harder to remove completely. This is why I am adding the gentamicin eye ointment to the subcutaneous gentamicin treatment. So far this seems to be working, but I have not yet been treating long enough to have a definitive answer. I will update as I get more results.
The other piece to the puzzle is removing the bacteria from the environment so the chins don't re-infect themselves. Cages, especially those with chins that have draining abscesses and goopy eyes need to be sterilized. There are a few different methods that have been used by various ranchers. Some that I have heard or used are rinsing/spraying with a bleach solution, a Nolvasan solution, or rubbing alcohol. Another method that I am experimenting with to sterilize cages that contain wooden structural elements is treatment with germicidal UV. UV treatment is well established in the biochemistry/molecular biology world, but I have yet to demonstrate conclusively in my setting that it is effective. Again, I will update as I have solid evidence for effectiveness.
While this bug is a huge pain, it does not need to destroy herds, the chinchilla industry, or shows. I do not think that it is likely to pass through casual contact with animals with a low level infection like you could possibly have at shows. As long as no one shows up with a chin with an abscess that is actively draining or a chin with pus filled eyes, I don't think there is much danger. Knowing what I know now, if this were not in my herd I would not hesitate to show my animals at any show. Please do not let fear, misinformation, or rumor cause more harm to our industry than it already has. Feel free to ask me questions here or via PM, I will do my best to answer them.
I will be writing this up for both ECBC and MCBA with all of the details and references that I have once I have a few more answers and some more data.
however you want to look at it...)
