Newbies Breeding
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Essentia
Jax Chinchilla Rescue
"Ticklebox" doesn't breed chins...what does she need a picture of?
And you want a picture of her chins?
http://www.cafepress.com/Chins_n_Hedgies.489034840
Have a blast.
And you want a picture of her chins?
http://www.cafepress.com/Chins_n_Hedgies.489034840
Have a blast.
saphire
Christiane's Chinchillas
I'd like to say..I don't know if I have "high quality" chins, but what I do know is an animal is much more than a "stud" or a show chin. I love my guys as a pet which is what an animal should be. Mine are all happy and well fed and I don't plan on selling my chins to anyone who will put then in a box with no room to jump or play or be the happy prt their meant to be..and I'm sticking to that. Alot of people will be upset or angry at this but be as you wish.
Personnally I think your opinion is as good as mine therefore not offended.
I don't necessarily agree with the attitude used towards those who have made it possible for us to have these wonderful little creatures in our lives. Many, if not all of these large breeders care alot more about their animals than many pet owners do. So we must be careful as to how we use the hammer.
I, as a small breeder don't see my animals as studs and only show animals... but I certainly have concerns about their futur generations health and quality. I want to better them as a species. That is something all responsible breeders strive for, and doing so shows the love one has for them. A proven and safest way to do so as far as I am concerned is in smaller cages.
I am not saying that larges cages are enjury or death traps because I believe all pet chinchillas should have large cages, but just that in my humble opinion I think runs or small cages are much safer for breeding.
My conscience would direct me to the breeder that strives to improve health and quality over the one that considers the cage size as being more important. It is all a matter of personal preference I guess.
I will add, I am most grateful to the breeders that have been around soooo many years (with small cages) to allow pet people and myself (a breeder) the possibility of nice quality animals. Without them we would not have.
That being said, again I do not judge those who chose to do it differently,
No offence intented, but I find it very special that we would be judged by one that does not breed. :hmm:
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RDZCRanch
RavenousDeadlyZombieChins
How on earth would you know if you have quality just as good as mine if you've never been to a show? Since I have produced grand show champions, you are assuming your chinchillas are worthy of a grand show champion placing. Excuse me if I find that slightly laughable.
You're saying that your animals are more than "show studs" is implying that everyone else that goes to shows just sees their animals as show studs. That is offensive as I've put more time, effort and heart ache into my animals than you ever will into your four animals.
You're saying that your animals are more than "show studs" is implying that everyone else that goes to shows just sees their animals as show studs. That is offensive as I've put more time, effort and heart ache into my animals than you ever will into your four animals.
Essentia
Jax Chinchilla Rescue
As someone who has rescued chins, she has every right to voice her opinion. On that note, anyone here has a right to voice their opinion. It's a forum. It's what people do. You can't tell people not to post on a thread just because you don't like their opinion.
Considering you have never shown your chins you have no idea of the quality of them. Also, considering you don't know their background, you have no idea what genetic issues they may be carrying. The rescues are the ones who deal with these backyard breeding practices. We have all taken in (ticklechin as well) the animals that no one else wants, who fur chew, have teeth issues, etc. because people felt the need to breed for no other reason than to have another cute chinchilla. Unless you are actually breeding to better the breed (which you evidently aren't since you have never even been to a show) you don't need to be breeding. There are too many chins who need homes already.
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Whijjone - YOU don't get to tell anybody on this forum what they can and cannot say. I don't see any special color or title under your name. What you can do is carry on a civil debate, which as far as I can see tickleCHIN was doing. She is calling out people who don't care for their chins properly (and I'm not even going to start up with that Mikayla), who don't have a good vet, who don't listen when they are told the right thing to do to care for their chins, and who are constantly on the forum with emergencies. People with 100s of chins don't have half the issues some of these people do.
You know squat about chinchilla quality. There is a term known as "barn blind." It's what you appear to be. Just because you think your chins are cute, doesn't make them breedable. ANY chin can be bred. The question is, should it be? If you don't have a clue what the breed standard is, how can you argue that your chins are as good as anybody else's?
This is a debate thread. That means you get to voice your opinion. Sometimes it can get a little hot under the collar, but since children aren't allowed on this forum, I would assume that you can handle it.
You know squat about chinchilla quality. There is a term known as "barn blind." It's what you appear to be. Just because you think your chins are cute, doesn't make them breedable. ANY chin can be bred. The question is, should it be? If you don't have a clue what the breed standard is, how can you argue that your chins are as good as anybody else's?
This is a debate thread. That means you get to voice your opinion. Sometimes it can get a little hot under the collar, but since children aren't allowed on this forum, I would assume that you can handle it.
ticklechin
Well-known member
Ticklebox? Ya know that kind of has a ring to it, I like it.
chechinchillas
hmmmmmmm
I pair breed in 36" to 48" wide cages and I do have 165 chinchillas, but I do care about each chinchilla. I know all of their personalities, quirks and names. I strive to give them the best care possible. I think if you truly love the animal, the longer you breed, it makes you want to do more for them. I think it's important to have wheels and toys to exercise and stimulate them. I have a customer who is a genetisist (not sure of the spelling) and she said by giving them that type of environment you are raising a more intelligent animal. My cages are 18" tall, but any taller and you risk a newborn climbing up the cage wall and injuring itself by jumping down. You can't assume just because someone is a breeder that they do not care about their animals and only think of them as studs. You definitely need to attend shows and bring your animals to really learn what a quality chin is and to see what quality your own chins are.
chechinchillas
hmmmmmmm
It's not that we "say" we have top quality. Our animals have been judged by a chinchilla judge against the best of the best. That's really the only way you can truly find out what quality you are producing. I believe you can be barn blind and it's hard to listen to a judge make a negative comment about an animal that you have raised and love, but necessary.
Essentia
Jax Chinchilla Rescue
And that's when you get that "top quality" judged in a show to know for sure before breeding it.
RDZCRanch
RavenousDeadlyZombieChins
Being a new breeder does NOT mean you need to get up in arms and start putting down everyone with larger herds that show consistently. Where are you going to get your quality chinchillas? From other small breeders? Good luck trying for that. They don't produce enough kits to sell anything quality. The only people you will get consistent high quality chinchillas from are the large breeders. So as Sapphire said...don't burn your bridges before you've even started in defense of the "new" breeders.
"Everyone starts somewhere" seems to be the new mantra of new breeders. This drives me crazy. Yes, everyone starts somewhere, but those of us that have been around a while freely GIVE the tools necessary to start the RIGHT way. All too often, we are ignored in favor of cute babies because they just KNOW their chins will make great parents and healthy babies.
"Everyone starts somewhere" seems to be the new mantra of new breeders. This drives me crazy. Yes, everyone starts somewhere, but those of us that have been around a while freely GIVE the tools necessary to start the RIGHT way. All too often, we are ignored in favor of cute babies because they just KNOW their chins will make great parents and healthy babies.
VolunteerChin22
I <3 dustbunnies
I take a little offense to the first part of that as a small breeder who does put out quality, Tab. :impatient:
Let's not confuse more with consistentcy. If you are in the ribbons and on the final table everytime you bring chins you are doing something right, no matter how many you bring. Not perfect, but at least right. There are quality chins in small and large herds, just like there is crap in every herd. Not every chin born is going to be grandshow even from an entire herd of grandshows. That's just the genetic lottery. I have seen a herd of over 100 that I wouldnt touch anything in it, and while that's not 1000's I consider that a big herd. Can you buy an entire start up herd from a small breeder? No probably not, can you buy a few quality chins to add to a herd? Absolutely.
I think you are missing her point. She is saying that it is harder to get top quality animals from smaller breeders because they often put them all back into breeding. Breeders with larger numbers are more likely to have top quality animals that they don't have room for, or that they have represented many times in their herds. so they are for sale, if you are willing to pay for them.
VolunteerChin22
I <3 dustbunnies
No I understand that, but as stated it could also be taken the way I read it. I also think that may not always be the case though - I don't have room to put all of my kits back into breeding so I do often end up with kits for sale.
RDZCRanch
RavenousDeadlyZombieChins
Even with only 20+ chinchillas, Christy, you would be a "larger" breeder from how I took it from Whijjones' posts.
There is also a huge difference between big breeders willing to sell a grand show champion and smaller breeders willing to sell 1st place, class champion or reserve class champions. Can you honestly 100% say that if you produced a grand show or reserve grand show champion that you would be willing to part with it? If you can say yes to that, then you are in a completely different place than other small breeders that will keep the best of what they breed to continue working with their lines.
You can take offense if you want, but I did not in any way, shape or form imply or state that smaller breeders do not produce quality. Look at what I wrote...the word "sell" is very clearly in that sentence. I don't know any small breeders that would sell the top of their lines, and if a small breeder is doing that, then they haven't learned anything. Breeding a top placing animal out of YOUR lines is more rewarding than buying two stunning animals that are more likely to produce top placing animals. Every breeder should have that goal because THAT is when you really show people you know what you are doing as far as quality goes. Anyone can pair two nicely bred chins.
There is also a huge difference between big breeders willing to sell a grand show champion and smaller breeders willing to sell 1st place, class champion or reserve class champions. Can you honestly 100% say that if you produced a grand show or reserve grand show champion that you would be willing to part with it? If you can say yes to that, then you are in a completely different place than other small breeders that will keep the best of what they breed to continue working with their lines.
You can take offense if you want, but I did not in any way, shape or form imply or state that smaller breeders do not produce quality. Look at what I wrote...the word "sell" is very clearly in that sentence. I don't know any small breeders that would sell the top of their lines, and if a small breeder is doing that, then they haven't learned anything. Breeding a top placing animal out of YOUR lines is more rewarding than buying two stunning animals that are more likely to produce top placing animals. Every breeder should have that goal because THAT is when you really show people you know what you are doing as far as quality goes. Anyone can pair two nicely bred chins.
VolunteerChin22
I <3 dustbunnies
I agree that I would not probably sell a grand show, but the part of what you said I took issue with was "they dont sell anything of quality" implying all that would be sold would be non breedable "crap." If that were true then small breeders would not be able to sell to other breeders, only pet homes. I actually like selling a section champ to another breeder because it makes me proud that one of my chins is being used in their herd. So are you saying that selling a section champ or class champ, or even a first place isn't selling quality, that only quality would be considered GSC?
PS I <3 you, so don't think Im really upset
PS I <3 you, so don't think Im really upset
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