New Curly Fur Mutation by Ritterspach?

[SamiJami]

It's sad because the animal is only considered for its pelt. It's also sad to think about chins getting hurt.

 

[starleomach]

It's sad because the animal is only considered for its pelt. It's also sad to think about chins getting hurt.

The shows were originally for pelter/ranchers and breed standards needed to be developed. What it comes down to is the need to have some guidlines as to what makes a quality animal, I don't see how this is sad, Rabbits/chickens/Cows/pigs are all judged based on production standards. When dealing with animals you need to have "farming" standards to judge on. If there were no judging based on pelt do you know how many more really crappy chinchillas there would be out there? there really needs to be a way to judge animals, standardizing based on pelt quality makes sense.

 

[Ash]

It's not sad. If it weren't for these shows and the standards to which responsible breeders are held and follow, all of our animals would be tiny, sickly animals. I'd prefer my chins from a quality breeder who breeds to standards than to buy from somebody who doesn't care what the standards say.

And rabbit shows judging is based on the same thing. It's either judged originally for meat or pelt product, not for personality and cuteness. At least, the rabbit shows I've been to and seen have been.

 

[Amphy64]

Thank you for posting the pictures, menagerie, I was wanting to see more pics. of the Locken chins. I personally like them (curly whiskers! :heart3, I like rex fur on critters, my only concern would be if it was linked to any health issues. I probably have a slightly different perspective since I'm in the UK, as there's no fur industry here I can easily see standards being formed for judging them and them finding a place in shows. If the requirements of the fur industry are no longer a consideration, then what makes a chin 'quality', assuming the animal is healthy, becomes (more obviously) a purely subjective judgement. This does not however mean they won't be judged to a rigorous standard - I've been to lots of shows for other small animals as well as for chins, and believe me, even hamsters are judged very seriously!
Maybe I'm a little biased because, while I like chins with brevi-type traits, I actually prefer the daintier, more elegant lanigera-types... As long as they're healthy, and you're not trying to breed for fur, there's no actual reason they're worse or better than each other, it's just about subjective judgements.

I never go to .com but did to see the goldbar auction thing mentioned in a different thread.

Oh, I don't know if it's Ok to ask, please forgive me if not, but would that be this girl: http://www.chinchillas.com/listings/details/index.cfm?itemnum=977170527
and did someone from here buy her? I wondered where she'd end up (I wasn't sure if she'd go to a breeder or not as she's pretty small, but then she is a Gold Baar so maybe), as I was absolutely smitten by her, not just because of the colour I think (though it is very pretty), I've seen pics. of Gold Baars before yet wasn't as taken with them as that female, I just thought there was something about her. Thought about buying her but wasn't sure I could justify the shipping costs to the UK. So, if she went to a breeder I guess I'd like to tell them that if, five years down the line or whenever, they want to retire her and decide to place her in a pet home, there's someone here who really wants her!

 

[Claire D]

I probably have a slightly different perspective since I'm in the UK, as there's no fur industry here I can easily see standards being formed for judging them and them finding a place in shows. If the requirements of the fur industry are no longer a consideration, then what makes a chin 'quality', assuming the animal is healthy, becomes (more obviously) a purely subjective judgement. This does not however mean they won't be judged to a rigorous standard

Whilst it is true that we have no fur farming in the UK you will find that shows are still judged along the same criteria as chinchilla shows anywhere else in the world. It would take considerable discussion to change the criteria to allow for curlies (or angoras for that matter) to be judged plus you'd need enough breeders taking on the mutations to make it viable & I can't see that happening anytime soon.

 

[Amphy64]

Yup, I know we still use the same criteria, I just feel it might possibly be a bit easier for them to gain acceptance at shows here, since chins are bred just for show/pets and so don't necessarily need to have a specific type of coat. ) I expect that since we do use the same criteria, the Locken chins (and the Angora) would still be judged similarly in regards to confirmation, they'll be bred to be big and blocky, and colour will also be the same. It doesn't quite need the entire standard to be changed - normal furred chins would be judged exactly the same way they've been judged before, it'd just need an addition to explain what qualities are looked for in the coat of Locken/Angora chins (which would probably just be placed in their own class).

With other types of small animal, like mice, rats and hamsters, different fur varieties are shown and judged, so I think it could work out the same for chins. Here's the standard from the North of England Rat Society for Rex rats:

'The coat to be evenly dense and not excessively harsh, with as few
guard hairs as possible. Coat to be evenly curled and also to a lesser
extent on the belly. Curly vibrissae (whiskers) are normal for Rex.
Colour to conform to a recognised colour or pattern variety.'

I can see something like that working, the conformation and colour is judged as usual, there's just some specific explanation for the coat. I had a Rex rat myself, I loved the way his coat (and whiskers!) curled, so would be very interested in a chin with a similar coat. I wonder what they feel like to the touch?

I think you're right, it probably won't happen that soon, but I do think it will, breeders in Europe are importing Angoras it seems, so they're going to want to be able to show them. Don't know if anyone in the UK has them yet, I haven't heard of any. Sounds like Jim Ritterspach is working pretty seriously with the Locken chins, too, and he's on the ECBC board of directors, right? So is in a position to help work out a standard for them to be judged by? It will be interesting to see, anyway.

 

[ticklechin]

What are mutation pelts used for? I was under the impression that grey pelts are bleached and dyed if a color fur coat is desired. What would be the purpose of a large ranch breeding a beige violet chin for example?

 

[Dolyphinm]

What are mutation pelts used for? I was under the impression that grey pelts are bleached and dyed if a color fur coat is desired. What would be the purpose of a large ranch breeding a beige violet chin for example?

I would imagine that since bleaching can be very harsh and damaging on human hair, that it would also reduce the feel of chinchilla fur too. So I see the mutations as a way of still having the very pleasant texture without losing any quality but getting varied colors. Whites would also help with that since no bleaching could be required, but white isn't as strongly developed as say black velvets. This of course is all my own opinion and I could be completely wrong, but it makes sense to me.

And Amphy, not everyone who shows in the US is showing to pelt. Most are actually just hobby breeders breeding for good quality pet chins and just overall improving chinchillas.

 

[ticklechin]

I thought white was the hardest color to match?

 

[Megan]

Dawn white is hard to match... Which is why you normally see the standards. Much easier to match. I think blacks are commonly used now, too.

I'm thinking if you can get enough similar whites/beiges they'd be used for smaller pieces? Perhaps ear muffs, scarf, roses, bears etc.

I would think the only reason for a large rancher to breed the questioned mutation is to market off the "pet" people and "small hobby breeder" that wants a funky color not everyone has. Especially overseas where this ranch tends to market to.. They are willing to shell out a large amount of money on something most of us wouldn't want to use.

 

[Amphy64]

And Amphy, not everyone who shows in the US is showing to pelt. Most are actually just hobby breeders breeding for good quality pet chins and just overall improving chinchillas.

Oh, I know, of course. ) Just mentioned it since there was some discussion in the topic about how shows (here in the UK, as well, of course) are judged to a pelt standard, and so therefore there isn't at present an obvious place for new fur varieties like the Locken - they'd have to be judged similarly in terms of size and conformation, I think, but a new standard, not based on the pelts, would have to be worked out for judging the curly fur, which may take a while.

 

[chechinchillas]

If Jim is breeding them they must have potential. Laurie said the ones they are working with now are all closely related and the ones that will be available soon are all brothers and sisters. I don't think I would consider getting into them until they have improved greatly and I have not seen them in person. The sapphires are challenging as it is, but Jim has really made great strides in improving them. He said the quality and size has really improved now, so he is the perfect breeder for the curlies. I do think the shows need to evolve to get others interested and to keep them going. I would really like to see a category for beautiful heads or extreme patterns, just to have something for everyone. I think as the chinchilla becomes more and more popular as a pet that the chinchilla fur industry will phase out in the US. The ranchers are who bred the quality into the chins we have today and those standards should still be used to keep that quality. I also think that we need to be more "open" to new ideas with the show to make them more welcoming/fun/educational to newcomers. I am going to challenge myself to become more involved and to help out at the shows. I know many of the same people continually do all the work setting them up and taking them down afterward. I think they are very important and want to see them continue. Sorry, got a little off topic...

 

[ticklechin]

Since these are avaliable in the USA now, what market are they being sold to? These are not being pelted I assume?

 

[EMSChins]

There are breaders out there that will throw anything and everything together if they think they can make a buck on the pet market by advertising something new, exotic, rare or different. I have a few ideas as to where the market will be for them. Lol

 

[Vyxxin]

That's about it too...there's no pelt market...there's no show "market"...so I guess pretty much to pet owners wanting the latest and "greatest" and therefore, to breeders wanting to profit from such.

 

[ticklechin]

A pet owner who pays upwards of a 1000.00 for one needs to have their head examined for brains and lack thereof.

 

[EMSChins]

Sometimes I really wish this website had a "Like" button!

Dawn it's not just the pet owners that need their heads examined. Lol

 

[akane]

At their prices I would think the market would be to other breeders that want to work with a new mutation. Really all the mutations, even the common colors, were once rare, overpriced, and possibly inferior animals. It's the work of multiple breeders who like the mutations that make it in to something with more quality and it's the breeding of many animals even if some go to the pet market that makes the mutation accessible to more breeders for more breeding plans on improving their quality.

I don't know about chin shows because there are none in my area but the rabbit association is constantly making new show standards for new colors of a breed and on very rare occasion a new breed. To work toward getting a show standard made for your variety in rabbits you have to first have a COD (certificate of development) approved by the ARBA using your proposed standard. Then so many individuals have to show so many rabbits of the new variety at nationals to keep the COD active. Finally if enough rabbits of high enough quality are shown for x years in a row they are fully approved as a new variety. It takes many breeders working hard for 20, 40, or even more years to go from a new weak mutation to a new quality variety and the prices for each new variety even if it's something very simple like a new white marking is usually rather insane at first.

 

[ticklechin]

Sounds like a ponzi scheme, those breeders who first start out selling them will make the profit, as the breeding gets further away from the frenzie of the start, there will be no more breeders who want to work with a 1000.00 mutation.

 

[Essentia]

The only thing I can say is, I've seen them in real life and just think they are ugly.