New Curly Fur Mutation by Ritterspach?

[Becky]

Bettering the breed means you improve what you are working with. In the chin world, that means adding quality standards to a line.

Violets have improved tremendously over the last 5-10 years. That's because so many breeders have taken the time and used great animals to make violets bigger, with better fur. Sapphires are a newer mutation and are behind the violets by quite a bit. There are those that are working with them to improve them.

Every new mutation starts at the bottom. If the people breeding them know what they are doing and are careful about the animals they use, the animals will be stronger, healthier, bigger and better. That's the case with the curlies. Jim is one of the best breeders we have and he is working hard on them.

 

[Riven]

Actually that's not true. Sapphires first appears a couple years before violets did. They were just not available as soon for more breeders to work with them.

 

[Becky]

Bad choice of words. Sapphires have not improved like violets have. IMO they are not even close to as far along.

 

[designer chins]

Sapphires have a long way to go, true. But at the WI seminar Joshua Jagileo said he'd wanted to get Grand Show with a Sapphire, and I told him I'd race him so hopefully by the time I retire OR he is out of college one of us will make it!

Didn't Jim indicate the curly gene seems to be ebony linked, at least with the chins he is working with? He doesn't have it in Violet similar to what Ronda saw, does he? Or another color?

 

[Becky]

I don't think so. I know they have some mosaics right now. They are thinking that it might be a cumulative gene of some sort, but they didn't mention it linked to a certain color.

 

[caiti]

That fur looks exactly like the fur on the back of a chesapeake bay retriever. Or a short haired poodle I guess. Poodle chins!!!!

 

[jags]

Sapphires are not all bad. I have seen some that Jim would not sell that were super nice and would be at the top of the table competing for Grand Show if he would just show them.

 

[Anne-Lise]

I've seen some extremely nice sapphires at the Ryerson and Christiane is also breeding some nice ones too.

I agree with Becky. It takes time to improve something. Lots of generations. I'D love to read more on that. Interesting the ebony-link, can't wait to see how it goes and develops. I think they are really cute. That's the kind of thing I love: seeing something new and seeing its improvement. Working hard to try to understand how it really works.

 

[LilanChilla]

I think the previous conversation has just proved my point. With the first sap it was probably a debate on whether to breed it or not, now they are widely accepted, at least as far as this forum is concerned. Give it time and I gaurentee it that they will also be welcome at shows.

 

[tunes]

I think the previous conversation has just proved my point. With the first sap it was probably a debate on whether to breed it or not, now they are widely accepted, at least as far as this forum is concerned. Give it time and I gaurentee it that they will also be welcome at shows.

Have you attended any shows? Shows are judged against a pelt standard. I can't imagine anyone is going to want a curly haired, thin furred chinchilla coat. People want chinchilla coats for their thick, luxurious feel.

 

[CTChin]

I have to admit I think that chinchilla at the beginning of this thread is kind of cool looking. I've always enjoyed petting groomed poodles so I'm odd like that I guess LOL Anyone want to sell me one as a PET? :thumbsup:

 

[jamanalo]

i agree with Becky, these may not have potential at shows, unless they have a separate show. All the other mutes everyone is mentioning at colors. simply colors. This is a whole new hair type. Bringing this into shows will contradict so many rules of showing, and basically all philosophies that ranchers have been following for decades.
Just like the dwarf animal that showed up. They were not bred because they are so small and for pelts, the smaller the pelt, less material to work with, so less profit for the rancher. They want large animals. Same with this curly animal. Ranchers want dense, standup fur and with this fur type it goes against that.
I agree, time will definitely improve the mutation, but it wont really be improvised to being showed because the guidelines for todays show will disqualify the animal. Maybe there will be another category of shows in general? who knows, only time will tell, but as of now, neither can be shown and win. As with the Angora.

 

[Olallie]

Wow i dont think the curly chin is all that beautiful. It looks skinny and the hair looks courser. But who knows in time they may be come common and "all the rage" I personally love my ebs, and wouldnt want to pursue a line in curly chins.

 

[LilanChilla]

Have you attended any shows? Shows are judged against a pelt standard. I can't imagine anyone is going to want a curly haired, thin furred chinchilla coat. People want chinchilla coats for their thick, luxurious feel.

I know, I have not been to a chin show, but have been to a lot of dog shows. I know there are major differences. I know that the standards set by Kennel clubs change over time, centuries even. It could be 50+ years. If someone chooses to continue to breed curlies they will be in a show somewhere at some time although I dont see it in the very close future.

 

[arf2184]

That fur looks exactly like the fur on the back of a chesapeake bay retriever. Or a short haired poodle I guess. Poodle chins!!!!

Lol, that was my first thought too.

Show standards change over time. I think curlies and angoras could have a place on the show table in the future...they'd have to be in their own class(es) with their own specific desired traits...density, clarity, confirmation, etc. would still apply, but you'd have to throw in a few traits specific to the coat type, like length and even-ness of fur for angoras. Its a long way off still since there aren't enough of them around yet, but I could definitely see new fur types on the show tables eventually, especially since things are moving more towards 'pet' and less towards 'pelt'.

 

[LilanChilla]

Show standards change over time. I think curlies and angoras could have a place on the show table in the future...they'd have to be in their own class(es) with their own specific desired traits...density, clarity, confirmation, etc. would still apply, but you'd have to throw in a few traits specific to the coat type, like length and even-ness of fur for angoras. Its a long way off still since there aren't enough of them around yet, but I could definitely see new fur types on the show tables eventually, especially since things are moving more towards 'pet' and less towards 'pelt'.

EXACTLY! thank you. you put that so much better than I could, or attempted to. I am not really very experienced in Chin showing as I am about dog showing/handleing.

 

[RDZCRanch]

It all has to do with the mentality of people attending shows and what they want judged. I personally do not want to see a curly furred chinchilla or an angora on the show table. I think they have a place in the pet market...not the pelt market or the show table.

Judging standards MAY change, but they haven't changed a whole lot in the chinchilla world. We tend to stick to the basics because if it's not broken...there's no point in "fixing" it. I've noticed a lot of the smaller hobby breeders want the shows to become more pet than pelt, especially for the MCBA shows which is one of the main reasons I am not a member of MCBA. ECBC, at least in CA does not do baby derbies or many things geared towards the "pet" side of chinchillas. I prefer it that way and hope to keep our standards alive. Otherwise, you lose what a chinchilla show is and we might as well join the guinea pig, rabbit, rat, and hamster shows where it's all about how friendly the animal is and partially about looks. My chinchillas look great, have friendly dispositions, and are healthy. I don't see that with the curly or angora chins...

 

[mishalaa]

I think for angoras, dwarves, and curlies to be judged, a new organization will have to form and put on their own shows. I do not see MCBA, and ECBC even less so, moving away from pelt standards. However, as the chinchilla community becomes more and more pet centric, I do think a third organization will eventually emerge where specialty varieties have a place at shows.

Personally, I have mixed feelings on it.

 

[jamanalo]

I agree, this is going to be such a mixed felt subject because its asking to change decades worth or research, blood, sweat and tears. It will only be shown if there is a separate show. They would not be judged along side the standards ever. It will have to be its own organization in order to be shown.
The industry has been drilled with pet centric things that many ranchers are thinking of pulling out because they no longer have as much business in where they are most passionate.
I think everyone should remember that if we own a chinchilla we need to realize where they came from. These animals must have originated at some pelt ranch somewhere down the road. We need to support that breeders have put so much time into breeding high quality animals, and for many pet people to breed whatever animals together mucks up all of their hard work. Many will argue that a chinchilla is a chinchilla when it's a pet, so quality should not matter, but having a show animal does not mean its personality will differ. I dont know, someone must agree with me somewhere out there ahaha, i just think people that breed with pet animals is so pointless and disrespectful to the ranchers and their decades of work.
Someone like Jim, whom is breeding angoras and these curlies is a different story because hes trying his hardest to improve the breed, im talking about breeders that breed with a dollar in their eyes. These breeders are making pet animals so much more available, and it up's the numbers of pet animals in the entire population of chinchillas in North America, not really a "pretty" thing. No pun intended.

 

[ticklechin]

I agree with the above post, there seems to be ALOT of breeding of any chin that has functional reproductive organs to make babies and a buck before they have barely taken a breath. Those poor quality rat faced thin furred chins are NOT what pet owners want, we can't adopt out those scroungy looking chins at the rescue but get a good looking, blocky, fluffy large chin and its adopted out ASAP, just because we are pet owners does not mean we want sub-quality backyard bred chins that are sprouted out left and right by animal hoarders.