Need some help please.

[newf]

I am hoping the same thing. I also learned that the smaller the towel the better as well. They sure are squirmy things. I didn't realize how strong they are until you try to keep one still enough to do what you need to do.

I have a question for you all about the cause of such a change in behavior. If you rule out a physical problem, can chins just stop eating because of a mental or emotion problem? I know parrots will stop eating because their person isn't there, and my dogs have done that when I have gone away for a couple of days. I was just wondering what your thoughts would be on that.

 

[addictedtochins]

. As for the towel, i had much more success with the smaller towels or large hand towel. for me the bath towels were so bulky that he would squirm right out of them.

I loved using a small cheap fleece throw. I see them on clearence for about $2.99 right now. It has some stretchy give to it, so much better when the paws were flailing.

 

[newf]

I thought I would post a pic of Taz as you all have helped out so much, I thought you would like to see him. I took that picture Christmas day when he got his new hammock.

 

[Bostongirl'sChin75]

he is adorable! I do hope he gets to feeling better soon!

I have a question for you all about the cause of such a change in behavior. If you rule out a physical problem, can chins just stop eating because of a mental or emotion problem? I know parrots will stop eating because their person isn't there, and my dogs have done that when I have gone away for a couple of days. I was just wondering what your thoughts would be on that.

I don't know how true it may be, but Herby stopped eating for a weekend after I had to go out of town suddenly and left her with a former girlfriend of mine, who I have strong suspicions terrorized her somehow. I know she stopped eating and drinking because I keep track of how much water and food she intakes and the food had not been changed at all that weekend and the water bottle was still full. It took me a few days to get her eating and drinking again. So, I think it may be possible for them to do this..

 

[newf]

Ok, I thought I had a dead chin in my hands tonight. He freaked me out really bad. I was feeding him his Critical Care through the syringe, and he was eating it okay. Not to happy about it and there was alot of fighting and wriggling around. I gave him another bit of the CC, and then he just went limp in my hands and his mouth didn't move. His eyes looked like they had glazed over. I thought he was dead for a split second until he moved. I figured we both needed a break since we had been at this now for about half an hour. I did manage to get him to eat almost 15cc of Critical Care, which is more than he has ate since last week. He is even picking up some hay and eating it right now as I type. So I am happy to see that.

I just have a question though about the amount to feed. I know you all say to feed him 50cc's. I just want to make sure I am understanding the amount. The syringe I have is a 15cc syringe. So I need to get three of those in him at one sitting? It just seems like a lot to me. I want to make sure I am understanding what I am reading.

 

[alli713]

It sounds like he had a seizure from all the stress of fighting the food. Have you tried adding any pumpkin or black strap molasses to the CC to see if he likes the taste any better?

And some chins just struggle with being force fed, have you tried leaving a bit in a dish in his cage for a couple hours to see if he eats any when he's not forced? Sorry if you have tried this, I may have missed it.

I haven't hand fed a chin, so I can't help you with the amounts.

 

[newf]

I put both in it, and have tried it separately in it as well. He was taking it off a spoon, but has since refused to do that. I will try leaving some out for him to eat on his own and see how that works.

I'm now afraid to try and force him to eat so much at one sitting. If he is already doing this after one syringe, I worry that I will really stress him out and he will have another episode like that.

 

[tunes]

It sounds to me like he choked on the CC. It might have been too thick, too thin, too much at one time. If you've got him securely wrapped in the burrito, there shouldn't be any room for struggling. When I burrito wrap I lay a thin kitchen towel across my chest, then I lay the chin on it facing me. I put the chin closer to one edge of the towel, and wrap the long part of the towel around quickly, and tuck it in tight, making sure to capture all four squirming paws. After I have the burrito secure, I put the chin between my left arm and my body, basically pinning him/her. I then hold the chins head between my thumb and second finger, using my first finger to hold the chin steady over the forehead area. Kind of like cupping your hand and putting the head in it, only a little more secure. Even with the worst fighter, they haven't been able to budge from that position.

You've got a real problem on your hands. He absolutely has to eat and he has to eat enough to push the blockage through. If he won't eat from a spoon and he won't eat from a syringe, your only other option is to try a bowl. If he won't eat from that, I don't know what more advice we can give you. I'm really sorry that this is turning out to be such a struggle for both of you. They just don't get that we're not doing it to hurt them, but to help them.

BTW, 15 mL is a decent start. You just will have to do it many times over the course of the day. My girl was so used to it, I could get 50 mL into in 10-15 minutes easy. But that was after a little while of working with her.

 

[Sugarmama]

Yeah, 15 ml's is a good start. Keep it up; it usually gets easier. In fact, sometimes they grow to like it so much it's hard to get them to eat on their own.

 

[addictedtochins]

We ended up with maybe 1/3 to 1/2 not going into him. I would get a few bigger syringes so I was ready for almost 24 hr's of feeding. I wouldn't take 30 minutes to feed, try to get it done in about 10-15 to lessen his stress.

 

[MelodyR]

50cc at one feeding? The instructions on the CC container say for a 500 gm chin, it's 24 gms PER DAY over 4-7 feedings, 900 gm chin (critter), it's around 45 cc PER DAY, spread over 4 - 7 feedings. For a 1400 gm chin, it's around 70cc PER DAY again spread over multiple 4-7 feedings. 45 cc at one feeding is for a 2700 gm chin -- frankly I would be afraid to feed one that big! 48cc of CC mixed is the equivalent of 2 TB of CC plus 46 cc of water. It seems like ALOT for one feeding.

Are Oxbow's numbers that far off? Is it different for chins than, say, guinea pigs? Since they can't vomit, what happens it you overfeed them? Whenever possible, I opt for smaller, more frequent feedings just so I don't have to worry about stuffing them.

I use a 1 cc syringe with the restrictive tip cut off. I have no problem getting inside their mouth that way without spillage. It's tedious, but effective, and I know exactly how much they consumed.

 

[tunes]

50cc at one feeding? The instructions on the CC container say for a 500 gm chin, it's 24 gms PER DAY over 4-7 feedings, 900 gm chin (critter), it's around 45 cc PER DAY, spread over 4 - 7 feedings. For a 1400 gm chin, it's around 70cc PER DAY again spread over multiple 4-7 feedings. 45 cc at one feeding is for a 2700 gm chin -- frankly I would be afraid to feed one that big! 48cc of CC mixed is the equivalent of 2 TB of CC plus 46 cc of water. It seems like ALOT for one feeding.

Hand feeding and I have become well acquainted over the last year after using PenPals. I'm quite well versed in how to hand feed a chin and how much to give, regardless of size. I don't have time to hand feed a chinchilla every 10 minutes to give them 5 mL of CC when they are ill. They get fed once in the morning before they go to sleep, and once at night before they are active. They gain weight on that and do well.

I'm not sure where you got your measurements from, but 70 mL a day won't do much for a 1400 gm chin except keep it anorexic. The measurement that Oxbow gives is far below what a chin should have, as I and others who are experienced with hand feeding have found out by trial and error. They recommend 45 mL for a 600 gm chin and I can tell you right now, that wouldn't do jack to help a chin that size maintain weight, let alone gain it.

ETA: On re-reading your post, did you mean 50 mL of prepared critical care? Or the powder? When I say 50 mL, I mean after the water is added.

 

[MelodyR]

That's why I was asking. I wasn't questioning you, I was just saying what the instructions indicated. Those are the Oxbow directions on the old white canisters that CC used to come in - I saved a couple for reference. I've never had to hand feed my chins, just Guinea Pigs.

Usually for GPs they say no more than 25 cc per one feeding, and GPs usually weigh more than chins, but they are no where near as active.

Is there ever a problem over-handfeeding since they can't vomit? What would happen if one did overfeed?

Just curious in case I ever have to hand feed my chins.

 

[tunes]

Is there ever a problem over-handfeeding since they can't vomit? What would happen if one did overfeed?

When they are done, they let you know, trust me. I am hand feeding a girl now who is recovering from a pregnancy gone wrong, pyometra, spay, etc. She lost a buttload of weight and is sitting around 500 gm right now. She takes the 50 mL and grabs the syringe for more when it's done. I just hold the syringe in front of her mouth and she reaches up and takes it until it's gone. There have only been a couple times when she hasn't been interested in it, and that was when I got the feedings too close together because of time constraints.

I think bare minimum to maintain weight is 50 mL and that's after you can get the weight loss to stop, especially after or during an illness when medication may make them go off their feed. Getting the weight loss to stop can be the hardest part. Usually once you can get them to level out for a few days, you can get them to start gaining again.

 

[newf]

tunes, it was your post I read about how to hold the chin. I have been holding his head the way you posted, and it has helped so much. It is the wrapping part I am having a problem with. I get his front end ok, but it is his hind legs that I can't seem to get wrapped correctly. Your post here has given me more detail on how to wrap him. I will definitely try that way today. Holding his head the way you stated has worked so well. If I could get the back end as steady as his front end, I know it would be alot easier on us both.

So, this morning I got him again to feed him before I left for work. It went a bit better this morning thank goodness. I got 15cc's into him in about 20-25 minutes. He took it much better, but still wasn't happy about it. He does alot of chewing while he is eating it. I am not sure if that is a good thing or not, but that is why it is taking so long. I don't want to force more food in his mouth if he is chewing it. I think that is what happened yesterday. I probably choked him doing that. Is that normal for them to chew it so much? Or am I making it too thick? Geez, this isn't a simple thing. I am making it like I would make it when I feed the baby birds. Cream of wheat like consistency. Maybe it is too thick for him. Not sure.

I am happy to hear that 15cc is a good start though. That makes me feel so much better. I was feeling very depressed last night that I didn't get all that 50cc food into him. Maybe if I continue to feed him in smaller doses at first, he might start taking larger doses later on once he gets the hang of the syringe.

I was also wondering, is there a video on here or a tutorial that shows you how to wrap and feed a chin? I would like to see it if possible. If there isn't one, maybe someone that has alot of experience could make one. I really think it would help people like myself that have to do this for the first time. It is one thing to read how to do something, but a totally different experience once you see it.

thank you again for all your support.

 

[tunes]

I have had some chins that really chew and others that do a couple quick chews and it's gone. I think it's just the strangeness of the texture that they are trying to work through. You'll probably notice that he chews less as he gets used to it. I have yet to have a chin that doesn't settle down after a time and actually enjoy the CC.

The consistency you describe, if I'm remembering the long ago days of Cream of Wheat sounds about right. I tend to make mine a bit thicker so they get more nutrition in each bite, but we've definitely got a rhythm going, Dannie and I.

Excellent that you got 15 mL in again. Now if you can do that a couple more times today, that would be great. Each time you feed, try and up it by 5 gm if at all possible until you are over the 100 mL mark. You need a lot of food pushing through there with bloat/stasis to get the blockage moving. Did the vet mention anything to you about fluids? It's really hard to get enough fluids in orally, so most people use subcu fluids instead. The vet should be able to show you how. Menagerie recommends a 23 gauge, if I remember right. She's found that is the easiest to handle. You would need someone to hold him for you though, unless you're comfortable doing it on your own.

Keep up the good work. You're doing great!

 

[4luvofchins]

I feed 50 mL twice a day when someone's sick. They seem to handle the 50 mL in one sitting with no trouble. 10, to me, would be a waste of time. I would have to feed them every half hour to get enough into them to do any good.

And yes, whether he wants to or not, you're going to have to forcefeed him. It's a rare chin that jumps up and down at the first sight of critical care. I swear they think it's poison. My worst case was a girl I had to do prolonged hand feeding on after the bad PenPals issue. She was on CC for over a year and the first 3 weeks was a nightmare. I had to fight her every step of the way to take it. She spit more out than I got in, and I would have to just scoop it up and shovel it back in. After that though, she actually reached for the syringe at feeding time.

Chins are weird.

So I was rechecking this post as a lot of it applies to my situation. I came across this. My vet has me giving 30 mL a day. They told me to cut it to down if it felt like his belly was expanding and not eliminating because otherwise he could perforate his gut. I read the 50 mL a day comment to just maintain weight. No wonder my guy is losing so much weight! I bumped him up to 40 yesterday. I am going to gradually increase his intake. I wonder if this is why he isn't making large droppings either. Any input on my vets comment of a perforated gut?

Hope Taz is doing better!

 

[Bostongirl'sChin75]

Herby chewed while she was on the CC and ground pellets, too. I noticed that some times there would be little clumps of the CC in the syringe that she would have to chew to get them down without choking.

And as time goes by, the more you feed him, the more he will get used to it..Herby did! Now every time I walk to the cage she thinks I have her CC..and she has not been on it for a over a week now.

I do hope Taz gets better soon!

 

[tunes]

4luvofchins - Keep in mind that the 50 mL twice a day is for an underweight, NOT bloated or stasis chin. So the 100 mL was to get Dannie to regain weight after being in ill health. There is nothing wrong with her stomach.

I have to say though that I personally do not believe that 30 mL is going to be doing a whole heck of a lot of he's got a blockage, and definitely not if you need to have weight gain. If you read Menagerie's post, she had a pretty small guy, and she told me last night she would line up 4/12 mL syringes and just feed him one after another. He was in severe stasis and she had to work him for over a month just to have any chance of his survival. She never mentioned to me anything about the gut perforating, and I'm pretty sure she would have if her vet had mentioned it to her.

 

[newf]

tunes, the vet didn't mention anything about subcu fluids. He is drinking from his bottle as I have seen him, but I am giving him syringes of water as I know he isn't getting enough. Funny enough, he will take those without much fuss at all.I will call the vet and see if she can talk to me about doing the subcu on him. I have my husband that can hold him if I need him to.

4luvofchins and Bostongirl'sChin75- thanks for the well wishes. he certainly can use them.