diet question

[ticklechin]

I think the hay the chin will actually eat is the only hay you need, regardless of what kind. I feed whatever looks nice and is fresh and what they will eat, in my case its both cuts of timothy and some loose alfalfa.

 

[Spoof]

If what she says is true, then it contridicts what the vet says, which is the diet should be 90% hay.

Hardly. Pellets are between 90-96% hay products. They pulverize it, add minerals, bind it with heat and make a pellet. Vet is correct, I am correct.

Alison hit the nail on the head - in the pet world some chins are lazy chewers. Eating a long stalk of something would probably solve that.

In a production environment the lazy chewers would malocclude, be culled from the herd and not allowed to reproduce the lazy chewing therefore eliminating the problem. Entire herd continues to be healthy on pellets. This is where the pet vs. business aspect divides.

To the original poster - the quality of forage in both the hay and pellets varies from batch to batch. One probably tasted better than the other.

 

[ticklechin]

According to this statement from the vet, "If you have a chin that has free choice pellets and free choice hay, but is determined to gorge on pellets, then most likely that chin will end up with dental disease sooner than one that would choose the hay over the pellets" how do you explain your position that pellets=hay and that you are correct and vet is correct-the vet says feed loose hay, she does not say feed pellets because they are made of hay, she states feed 90% hay and limit pellets. So how can both of you be correct if that is what she says?

 

[Spoof]

As far as that statement goes I didn't make it. The vet did, and you should ask her to clarify.

You don't have to believe me.

In fact, I highly recommend you don't and experience life for yourself. I can't do it all for you guys.

I can't comment on the dental disease as I've only had one out malocclude in the back and it was shipped to me that way. Amazingly the rest of my animals have survived on pellets since 1999. Even more amazing they've survived on all the weird crap I've experimented with since then. They're pretty tough critters.

 

[Essentia]

Yes, I hay and I give hay cubes, but nowhere near as much as what you guys do. Haying 6 chins and haying over 250 chins is quite a bit different.

I've had two cases of malo here. One in a girl who was 8-years-old that I bought. She was put down about 3 months after I got her. The other was a girl who, when I bought her, the hair around her eyes was a little matted, but I saw her eat and chew and she was a good weight. She also wasn't even a year old. Many of the other chins at his house also had the same thing, and since they were in a basement with no windows that could open, when he told me it was a ventilation issue (which I had seen before) I believed him. She was gone within 8 months.

Other than that, nope, no teeth problems. Do I recommend giving hay? Yup, I do. I don't know how much I believe that this one makes these teeth work and that one makes those teeth work though. Other than one person who went on and on about it (and then people picked up on it), I don't know of anybody else who has really said that. It just kind of snowballed I think. While I do think it helps wear their teeth down and keep them at a healthier length - I think hay is hay. I don't know if I believe one wears the teeth down more than others. I do believe they enjoy it and that it is a supplement to their dietary needs. Do I believe that every chin everywhere will die without it? Nope, as clearly evidenced by the many ranchers who don't feed it.

I wish I could feed it more often than I do. But it costs me over $60.00 for 50 pounds of hay, and I'm sorry, but that is nothing more than robbery. If I fed it every day, it wouldn't last me a week. I can buy a 1500 pound round bale of hay for $35.00, but for a little tiny box that I can feel safe feeding my chins, it's $60.00? My chins are not all that thrilled with those great big hay cubes either. They mostly just leave them sit. The only ones they will eat are the small ones from Oxbow, because they can hold onto them easier (yes, I've tried breaking the big ones, they are still huge). That's another $60.00 for a box of hay cubes. A bag is what? $6.00?? And now Oxbow is going to stop selling them directly and it's gone even higher through their distributors. For half the hay it's the same price as what I used to pay for 50 pounds. Mine hate Kleenmama's, they won't even touch it. So what's left?

That I agree with completely. I also tried Kleenmama's and Bunny Bale and mine didn't like it anywhere near as much as Oxbow. I think the popularity of Oxbow has gone to their head. Have they always been this expensive? I feed Oxbow, but at max I have no more than 6-7 chinchillas. Even then I pay $19.99 for a 9 lb. box and I can get a 70 lb. bale at my feed store for $15.00. The problem is, they won't eat it. Even with my much fewer chins it gets really expensive. I would love to try the Oxbow cubes but my feed store says they can't get them. I can't afford the $5-$7 people charge online for a 2 lb. bag of them, and I just don't have the room for 50 lbs. of them from Oxbow (while they are still selling direct). I have never seen Timmy Hay cubes (any brand) anywhere local so I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I HATE the hay mess, especially since I have carpet.

I wasn't questioning your methods because I thought you were doing something wrong, just questioning because I really am curious about how chins who don't get hay everyday get along. On every forum I have been on I have always heard that hay is a must, at all times. So this is new to me and quite interesting.

 

[ticklechin]

As far as that statement goes I didn't make it. The vet did, and you should ask her to clarify.

You don't have to believe me.

In fact, I highly recommend you don't and experience life for yourself. I can't do it all for you guys.

I can't comment on the dental disease as I've only had one out malocclude in the back and it was shipped to me that way. Amazingly the rest of my animals have survived on pellets since 1999. Even more amazing they've survived on all the weird crap I've experimented with since then. They're pretty tough critters.

I think her statement is clear and does not need clarifying, she says 90% hay and limited pellets. I see that my question will go unanswered, how one can say pellets only, one can say hay pretty much only, and how both can be correct. I think I will stick with hay, and I don't need to live anyone elses life nor do I feel the need to experiment on my pets.

 

[Essentia]

You sound offended that people have different opinions. No one is telling you to stop feeding your chins hay. They are saying what they do, and what they have seen others do. That doesn't mean you should also do it. These people have been doing this for YEARS and it happens to work for them. Me? I will continue to feed loose hay until I can find Timothy hay cubes (and then give loose hay once a week). Does that mean I think these people are wrong? Nope. It just means that we do things like we want to. These are YOUR pets. No one is asking you to experiment on them. Use your own judgment on how you feed your animals.

 

[ticklechin]

I won't even dignify your remark with a answer since you do not know me or know what my experience is.

 

[Mt. Zion Chins]

I believe that hay is important but that is what I believe To me it makes sense when you see the chins chewing on the hay that they seem to chew longer on the hay so they are 'grinding down' their teeth better. As for what Angie says vs what others say, some things with chins aren't really proven so each person has to do what they believe. If it doesn't seem to hurt their chins in many years then that's what works for them. I get a bale of hay from the farmers and use that. Tunes, I thought ND had lots of farms. It is very cheap to get a bale of hay from the farmers. My chins love the hay. I make sure it smells fresh before I use it.

 

[Essentia]

I won't even dignify your remark with a answer since you do not know me or know what my experience is.

I was referring more to ranchers and such that have been doing it for decades, not the hobby breeders who have responded to the thread. The breeders are stating their opinion about what they have seen. They only listed what they do with their animals because I specifically asked.

 

[tunes]

Barb - Unfortunately, I have yet to find timothy out here. I have been told it just doesn't grow. I wonder if it's because South Dakota/North Dakota is always in a drought state. Also, I have found one farmer that bales small bales. Most of the hay out here is either used for the cattle or baled and shipped to horse/cattle farms out of state. Because of that, people usually use those monstrous bales that are 1000 pounds plus. Not very practical in my little chin barn.

The other reason is, everybody out here either just bales their fields as is (brome/grass hay) or they plant alfalfa or mix the two. We're a farming state, so what matters is what they can feed their cattle. There are some horse farms out here, but not on the scale that there were in Ohio, so timothy doesn't have the customer base the alfalfa does.

Ticklechin - Chill out. Don't look for a fight where there isn't one. Crysta wasn't addressing you.

Also, if no one knows what your experience is with chins and nobody knows anything about you, there's only one reason for that. We're not mind readers. We can't figure it out by rubbing our hands against your user name on the screen.

 

[ticklechin]

So basically keep my mouth shut, okie dokie I got that message loud and clear.

 

[tunes]

It would be nice if you would let me address one post before you completely delete it and change it to something even more defensive.

Now, let's start from scratch. This is an informational thread, therefore, ALL people are welcome to contribute including yourself, providing you can keep it germaine to the discussion at hand. Nobody got snotty at you or told you to shut up. You got an attitude after Tara posted, and it's clear from your post. Granted, the fonts we have don't always express that well (though I do keep hoping for a sarcastic font), but it came across to me and several others that you were being snippy.

Here's the bottom line. What works for you may not work for me and vice versa. What works for Tara is fine, but it may not be the way I want to do it. Nobody is forcing you to do it other than how it works for you.

If you want to give hay every day, 3 times a day, that's fine. If you want to give 7 types of hay, that's okay too. I happen to agree with Angie that hay is necessary, but there are many long term ranchers who would disagree with that and have the years of experience to back it up. So - does that mean either of their information is wrong? No, it doesn't. It means they have different opinions about what works for them.

 

[Jenn]

I have hay provided for my one and only chin, 24/7. For the most part, she really never seems that interested in it, no matter what type of hay I provide. But I do have Timothy hay available at all times, in case she does feel like munching on it. I assume that my chin knows what she needs and how much she needs it. I can only guess her needs, she is the chin expert, not me. When I read threads, I tend to listen to everyone's advice. Some people have a few chins, some people have hundreds. Some have owned chins for a short period of time, others for years. While I listen to all advice, those that have owned chins for years, and many chins at that - Like Tunes (Peggy, for example) I tend to value their advice and listen to what they say. They are certainly going to do what is best for their herd, and not risk losing them. But in the end, like has been said, you have to make your own decision as to what you want/need to do.

 

[Carol~Anne]

I keep going back to this comment by Spoof...

Because it makes pet owners feel better?

None of the ranchers I've bought from have given hay, cubed or otherwise. Most just a strait pellet diet, though a few give a supplement.

I've heard of people trying all hay diets, but if you think about it on a larger scale, feeding hay would be a pain for 500 chins.

Why is it that this comment just annoys me so much? I've thought about it today at work and I think I'm annoyed by it b/c I feel as a pet owner that I'm being talked down to.

Some random rancher implies that I feed my animals hay b/c it makes ME feel better? Okay. I thought I was feeding my chinchillas hay b/c it was better for them. That is what I've been taught over the past two years since I joined various forums, and the resident vet says so too which confirms my belief.

I'm getting the impression that hay is a luxury and some of you can't afford it or think it's too messy and a pain to feed it to a herd so therefore you don't bother with it.

I only have five chinchillas and I go through a LOT of hay. My husband is even questioning me these days about the amount of money I'm spending on it. He really doesn't mind but he does notice the price tag on each little bale I bring home and I'm telling him my boys NEED this hay so he looks the other way b/c he knows how much my chins mean to me.

Another thought I had... is it possible that some ranchers don't feed hay to their herd b/c these animals only will be alive for nine months anyway before they're pelted? Do they feed hay to their breeders only b/c they're around for a long time and therefore need to be kept in top shape?

I am asking b/c I honestly do not know the answer and it would be interesting to find out what ranchers themselves have to say about the subject. I've been gone most of the day and there is not one post by a rancher and I know they're out there and could shed light on this subject.

 

[Sandi]

I too believed that if my chins didn't eat hay that there was something wrong. I am so glad I read this thread. I feed several different types of hay with the majority of it being timothy hay. I only have 2 chins and because they get to their haybox the second I refill it, means I'll give it to them every day but I won't worry if they decide not to either.

 

[tunes]

Why is it that this comment just annoys me so much? I've thought about it today at work and I think I'm annoyed by it b/c I feel as a pet owner that I'm being talked down to.

Um, if you don't think that they laugh at some of the stuff that "pet people" come up with, you're naive. Just like pet people rant and rave about the cruelty of ranchers and runs. Why would you expect them to be above it all if you're not?

I'm getting the impression that hay is a luxury and some of you can't afford it or think it's too messy and a pain to feed it to a herd so therefore you don't bother with it.

Don't twist what was said into something it's not. Nobody in this thread said that hay is a luxury. I said it's hard to get out here and it is. It's very expensive to have it shipped in and it is impossible to get it within this state.

Another thought I had... is it possible that some ranchers don't feed hay to their herd b/c these animals only will be alive for nine months anyway before they're pelted? Do they feed hay to their breeders only b/c they're around for a long time and therefore need to be kept in top shape?

Obviously you know very little about how ranches are run. Think about this for a minute. If they killed every chin that reached 9 months of age, what exactly would they be using for breeding, since most chins don't get bred until that age? Why is it that pet oriented people assume that ranchers just go through their barns willy nilly, exterminating all viable life forms? That's why they are called "breeders." Because they breed. What sense would it make to pelt the animals that produce the animals that are used for pelting, pet sales, and wholesale? I'd be willing to bet that ranchers have animals that are older than most of the pet owners on this forum, and for obvious reasons.

I am asking b/c I honestly do not know the answer and it would be interesting to find out what ranchers themselves have to say about the subject. I've been gone most of the day and there is not one post by a rancher and I know they're out there and could shed light on this subject.

You're kidding, right? One person on this thread tried to post from a rancher's point of view. What happened? Someone got offended, defensive, and started finger pointing and belittling that person's opinion. Now we have "the vet is right and the ranchers are wrong" going on. What exactly do you want them to post Carol-Anne? Right now there are two ranchers on the forum, but they aren't active. There aren't hoards of ranchers on here just waiting to answer questions put forth by a largely pet oriented forum. Even if they were, what would happen? They would no sooner hit send than the OMGs! and the ARE YOU KIDDING MEs? would start.

 

[Mt. Zion Chins]

again - can't we agree sometimes that what works for you for many years is probably the best for your chins. Lets agree to disagree sometimes and go on - Most of us wants what is best for our chins and sometimes we can't agree what that is. As I said I believe hay is important but I am not 'knocking' those who disagree as long as their chins are not harmed. And I agree 'ranchers' , even those who pelt, have to have very HEALTHY breeders that live quite a few years. Even if I don't agree with 'this life style'. I know that they HAVE to take good care of their chins. ALso remember that most of what we know of good chin care is because of large ranchers knowing what is best for chin care to keep them healthy.

 

[ticklechin]

If the forum is largely pet oriented, why post rancher points of view, that is what I don't get.

 

[Carol~Anne]

^^ I want to see and hear both sides of the coin so to speak. I'm very interested in what ranchers have to say and I do think they've got tonnes of experience and I appreciate that, but I want to know what's best for my pet chins. Everything I've read says hay is VERY important to their health and I'm wondering why all of a sudden it's 'optional'.