Won't eat Oxbow Critical Care, not eating much. Help!

[Pixie]

Should I stop giving her the Reglan? She seems to be eating more but still really wants the syringe. She is currently still taking acidophilus, metacam, Reglan, and simethicone. I just got a scale and will be weighing her and her food as we decrease the syringe food.

Also, is there any pictures anywhere of beginning dermatitis on ears or feet? Or what are the beginning signs of dermatitis on chins. She has lost hair on top of the foot that she uses to wipe away the syringe food. It always seems to get syringe food on it and I do my best to try to wipe it off afterwards. I might be overly sensitive about her right now, but the inside of her ears look different then my other chinchillas...kind of more dry and not as fuzzy.

How do I post a picture so you all can look at her ears and foot? I have had mild dermatitis and ring worm when I was younger and coconut oil and sun got rid of it. I was thinking of applying a little bit of coconut oil to her foot just in case. It's anti microbial and good for human and animals skin. I couldn't imagine it would be bad for her, but it is an oil and I really don't know that much about chinchillas.

What do you think? I know I asked a lot of questions, Im just a worried mommy and want her to be healthy and not get something else.

 

[ticklechin]

If you are getting enough food into her for her to make poo that is somewhat normal size then after letting the vet know, stop the reglan. The skin gets red and angry looking when there is a problem, I would not treat it unless needed, bald feet and chest happens during hand feeding, its sadly normal.

 

[Pixie]

So I just noticed this morning that she is missing fur on the inside of one of her legs. It's actually the same leg that has some fur missing on her foot.

Her poop is looking great and she is eating more on her own every day. It looks like she may be missing a little bit of fur around the chin, chest, face area. There doesnt seem to be any redness. What could be causing this? Why woukd hand feeding cause her to lose fur suddenly around the chest and feet?

Her energy level is fantastic, but her suddenly starting to lose fur is worrying me a bit.

 

[ticklechin]

They pull at the fur to try to get the junk off and they excessively groom also.

 

[Pixie]

A little bit of an update on Judy, she's eating normally and is off the Reglan, metacam, and simethicone. I'm still giving her acidophilus every day and a syringe feeding around 22 ml once every evening. But I have some concerns...she's not eating hay or treats. Since I rescued her 2 years ago, she's never been into treats....which is odd. But now she's not eating hay or is eating very little of it. She is eating enough pellets which is why I decreased the syringe feedings, but now I am worrying that there is a dental issue other then just filing a tooth because she seems to be drooling again....dampness around her mouth, chin and chest. I called the vet...waiting for a call back. Any thoughts? Could the dampness just be from her excessively grooming herself? I wish they would have done x rays when they had her under the anesthesia so I knew for sure that there wasn't any other major dental stuff going on. I believe they want to test her blood....

 

[becky12883]

Blood work won't tell you if there are dental issues, and drooling is a definite sign of dental issues. Did she come out of the anesthesia okay last time? I would push for that over the blood work.

I'm hoping for the best for you and Judy, good luck at the vet's.

 

[ticklechin]

She needs the x-rays and they need to be read by a vet who knows teeth. If it makes them feel better they can draw blood while she is out-she needs another oral exam under gas, x-rays and I don't agree the chin needs blood drawn, but it can be done also while under.

 

[Pixie]

Judy is at her dental appt again today. I had them do X-rays as well as the dental exam. I'll know more later. I did find out that she has an irregular heart beat and they were concerned about putting her under the anesthesia, but they said it would still be best to put her under as if there is something major with the teeth, she could eventually stop eating. I'll know more soon. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Pixie]

So I have Judy home. She's not feeling well. . She won't even take her yummy syringe food. Does anyone know if this is normal for a chinchilla who has just gone thru anesthesia, dental filing, and X-rays? Her eyelids are droopy, she's lethargic, and won't eat. She was also making weird throat sneezy sounds I've never heard before. I don't remember her acting like this when I first brought her home last time this happened except when I started giving her the baytril which had caused her to gut to shut down, stasis.

What I found out at the vet:
-Her heartbeat is irregular, murmur, possible heart disease.
-The same molars that were filed down at the end of January grew back and had to be filed down again. Her back left molars were growing at an angle towards her cheek. They are thinking she is not eating on that side because of pain. They are wondering if she has TMJ pain? They found nothing in the X-rays. They think she needs to be on metacam long term.
-Her glucosamine level was high, they are wondering if it is due to stress from the vet visit or if she is possibly diabetic.

Where do I go from here? Any suggestions on what to do or not to do? Do I limit activity level tonight, the next couple days? I want to do everything right this time and i dont want her gut to shut down. Should i start giving her Reglan and simethicone again? They didnt prescribe antibiotics this time. Poor baby. It breaks my heart to see her so out of it. She was so active this morning before I brought her to the vet.

 

[ticklechin]

I hope I am going to assume they used gas to put her under and not IV and I am going to hope when they did this on a known "heart patient" they used a heart moniter and they did not leave her for even a second. That said, if the vet is not talented with filings, the vet can be pretty brutal and I hope that vet got the memo that chin teeth ARE innervated and you don't grind them willy nilly. For pain relief, chin can have tramadol added to the metecam for effective moderate to severe pain relief. I would say buprenex if this chin did not have so many gut issues. As far as the x-rays go, vets suck at reading them, you might ask for a copy and post it here for second opinion. Metecam long term is doable to a degree-the long term effects can cause liver/kidney issues and enzyme checks with blood drawn need to happen every 6 months or so.


This all said, I will be upfront and honest and you will hate me but since the teeth grew back that quick and at a angle this chin has malo and will need long term chronic care, it takes commitment, it takes most likely 24/7/365 hand feedings forever, it means dealing with stasis, dermatitis, bathing, eye infections, mouth infections, money money money, vet visits, sleepless nights, no vacation, future root elongation, abscesses, teeth falling out, filings every 4-6 weeks and with a heart problem there is a chance of death during or shortly after and after all this, with a heavy heart I can say with 100% certainty you will not win, malo will win every time. Management can happen, quality of life can be ok for awhile, but the slow slide down hill will happen and no matter how many 1000s of dollars, treatments, 1000s of hand feedings, 1000s of prayers, you will lose. I can help with managment of a malo chin, have done all of the above and more many many times, I can also tell you I did not listen and bullied on with every experimental treamtent out there and put my chins through **** on earth and I can tell you I regret it deep inside now and would not for anything repeat my past.

 

[Pixie]

Yes, they used isoflurane gas to put her under and used a cardiac monitor. I keep finding out heart breaking news. I took her into the vet as an emergency today as her breathing is heavy and there is a weird noise coming from her throat I've never heard before on top of not wanting to even eat her yummy syringe food, lethargic, hiding a lot, droopy dull eyes. They are keeping her for the day. Here's what I have found out...
-They are thinking she might have Diabetes as they found a high amount of glucose in her urine
-She has a heart murmur
-They are thinking that maybe she aspirated during or around anesthesia or something like that as the sound in her lungs doesn't sound good when she gets stressed or active. They are thinking she could possibly be developing pnemonia.

Thank you for giving me feedback Dawn. As much as I want her to survive, I also don't want her to suffer. We are financially not doing well on top of caring for 7 other animals which some also need vet care all of a sudden. I cant even afford my own healthcare because of the high costs of my animals vet care. After Judy went into Stasis, I devoted all my free time helping her but then the other animals in my house started having health issues and also need care....and there is only one of me. My husband does not take care of the animals, I do. I can't not work and take care of Judy 24/7 as I need to be able to pay the bills and take care of all the other animals. Sorry for venting. I'm so completely stressed about this. I hate to ask, but when do I know its time to put her down? Hardest question ever!

If she has pnemonia, how do I treat that? What about Diabetes? Heart murmur?

 

[ticklechin]

I will tell you from experience, having dealt with a malo chin with a class 5 murmur and other health issues-hindsight after spending 4 years 24/7/365 with him and over 10,000.00 dollars on his vet care alone, he would have been put down at the start. This will be ongoing and will not end well. Aspiration pneumonia is most often fatal and its fast. If the chin makes it, in another 4-6 weeks she will need to be put under again for another filing, malo chins with heart issues will either die during or shortly after a filing at some point, or like Gino the 10k chin, he developed congestive heart failure and had to be PTS, the most hardest decision of my life after 4 years we had a close close bond. The most loving thing you can do is be too early rather than too late when it comes to the decision to put down the chin, they suffer and can't tell you, but I can tell you this at whatever point will end badly.

 

[Pixie]

Then I have another question. I have been doing some reading on the Internet about euthanasia and chinchillas and I read that it can be hard for a vet to find the vein and get the needle in just right and there could be complications. So do you have any recommendations on how to have the most humane euthanasia for chinchillas? Have you had any problems with vets getting the needle in and doing it right? Should she have CO2?Should I have a vet come to my home? I want to be prepared in case I need to make this decision fast. What has been your experiences and what you would do?

What do you think about this?
Euthanasia: Euthanasia in itself is obviously not a health problem but I felt it warranted mention and this seemed the best section. There may come a time when supportive therapies are not feasible with your Chinchilla. At that time you may have to consider euthanasia. Unfortunately small animals are fairly difficult to euthanize as they have such tiny veins it is often impossible to administer a lethal injection through an IV or Catheter. Some possible forms of humane euthanasia are: an overdose of anesthetic such as Isoflourane, a Carbon Monoxide chamber, and a “Heart Stick”. Most vets will tell you that a “Heart Stick” is painless. This is simply not true. Sure a Chinchilla who is dying is already suffering but if the Heart Stick is not performed correctly it can be an agonizing death. If Heart Stick is the only method available to you then you can always request your Chinchilla be anesthetized before hand and this will ensure it is truly painless. A C02 chamber is the best choice as your Chinchilla will simply drift off to sleep. The body doesn’t realize it is breathing in a poisonous gas, it just considers it to be oxygen. Your Chinchilla may show some signs of final life but this can be the case with any euthanasia and it is certainly the case when they are allowed to suffer and die on their own. C02 poisoning in humans is among the deadliest there is because it is the “silent killer”, most often humans will get a headache and feel very sleepy, they will drift off to sleep and many die in their sleep before they realize what is happening or help can arrive. This should be no different for Chinchillas and other small animals, if administered correctly they should simply drift off to sleep and not wake up. In our state an injection of euthanasia solution can only be administered by a veterinarian so most city/county kill shelter must rely on C02 Chambers. It may not be a legal option in your area or it may not be offered by your veterinarian so it’s a good idea to discuss these things with your vet in advance so you can be sure they know your wishes.
http://crazy_chinnie.webs.com/sickchinchilla.htm

 

[ticklechin]

My vets put the chin under with gas, then use the heart stick. It looks very peaceful when it is done.

 

[Pixie]

I don't know much yet, but I'm driving to the vet now to pick her up. The vet tech asked if I think I could do injectable antibiotics. I have a needle phobia so this is not good. The vet doesn't want her to aspirate on the antibiotics. Does antibiotics treat pneumonia?

 

[Pixie]

Nevermind...it's injectable reglan not antibiotics.

 

[Pixie]

Judy is on the decline tonight...not sure if it was the strong pain meds they gave her today or if its something else. Her breathing seems labored, her eyeballs are dull, look dry, and are very droopy. She's acting more sick then she ever has been. They did an X-ray of her chest and stomach without anasthesia today and found that she has a lot of gas built up on her tummy...they were thinking from the anasthesia. They put her on injectable Reglan to help with that.

The vet said to just focus on getting her to eat again, syringe feedings multiple times a day, simethicone, excercise etc., the same stuff I did a month go. I tried to syringe feed her again at 10:30pm and she seems so lifeless. She wouldn't chew or swallow....made no movement. So I decided not to give her anymore. I'm afraid when I wake up tomorrow she will have passed away. If not and she is still acting like this, then I will take her to the vet to be euthanized. Could it be the pain meds they injected in her and its just making her drowsy? or is she dying.

Something I noticed on her invoice was that they changed me for insulin. Did the give my chin insulin? Because they weren't supposed to and I had no knowledge of this. Actually the Dr. said to not focus on whether she has diabetes or not right now because we won't know for sure until we test her again after she's better. Vs he literally said to me that she is not going to label her a diabetic right now. Then why on earth would they give her insulin...especially without talking to me about it. She also said it didn't look like she has pnemonia on the X-ray (by the way, I took pictures of the dental X-rays and the stomach/heart X-rays. How do I post them?). Can insulin hurt a chinchilla? I'm super pissed about this right now and will be calling the vet about it in the morning. Judy has been through enough.

 

[Pixie]

Changed me for insulin is supposed to be Charged me for insulin...whoops!

 

[ticklechin]

Chinchilla diabetes treatment does not involve insulin, there have been no documented cases if type 1 that I am aware of, its always type 2 and that is treated with diet and exercise just like humans and yes, you don't deal with treatment of diabetes until the crisis is over since stress can cause all kinds of issues that mimics other things.


What happens during a filing is things can and do go wrong, you will never know for sure if its from "wrong doing" or bad luck but any time a chin goes under there is a risk of a repeat performance.

 

[Pixie]

Why do you think they would give a chinchilla insulin?