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[ChinsForLife]

On Etsy the shipping costs are pretty high just letting you know

Oh, I know! It's nuts!

 

[ChinsForLife]

You don't happen to know of any places that sell apple wood for cheap, do you?

 

[Chinchilla Girl]

You don't happen to know of any places that sell apple wood for cheap, do you?

I don’t I’m still in search lol

 

[Chinchilla Girl]

Could you send a link to the store please?

AZ Chins - Welcome to the CHINSTORE! here is the link

 

[ChinsForLife]

AZ Chins - Welcome to the CHINSTORE! here is the link

Thank you! What are your chins favorite toy parts? (Willow vine, palm shredders, loofah, pumice stone, seagrass, etc.)

 

[Chinchilla Girl]

I have to go to bed now good night! Talk in the morning!

 

[Chinchilla Girl]

Thank you! What are your chins favorite toy parts? (Willow vine, palm shredders, loofah, pumice stone, seagrass, etc.)

mine like willow as of right now lol

 

[ChinsForLife]

I have to go to bed now good night! Talk in the morning!

Ok, goodnight!☺

 

[ChinsForLife]

mine like willow as of right now lol

Oh ok! Mine does too! Willow and seagrass are his favorites right now.

 

[Shadow1120]

AZ Chins is really good, I've bought lots of items from them in the past!

 

[ChinsForLife]

AZ Chins is really good, I've bought lots of items from them in the past!

What are your chins favorite toys from them? Which would you personally recommend?

 

[Amethyst]

You might want to actually do some research on proper care before posting chinchilla care videos... the newest video about treats has a lot of misinformation or at best outdated info in it. Goji berries are only really safe about once a month at most, not every other day. Also fruits, even dried are VERY bad for chins, drying them only removes the moisture not the sugar. A diet high in sugar will lead to several health issue including diabetes, liver and kidney failure, seizures, blindness, tooth decay, and obesity to name a few. Many of the issues take time before you notice them, but will in most cases shorten your chin's life, I know some petstores say they only live about 10 years, but with proper care (as well as good genetics and luck) they can live well into the their 20s or even 30s. In case you don't know most chinchilla pellets already contain sugar, and so does hay, so giving sugary treats (like dried fruits) is adding additional sugar to the diet on top of that. On the topic of hay, brand actually doesn't matter much, the nutrient values vary widely based on time of day, the area of the field, and cut of the hay. The reason it needs to make up so much of the diet is hay takes longer to chew then pellets, so it wears down the back teeth more then pellets do, the pellets already contain all the nutrients the chin needs.

I realize it's your chins and you can do what ever you want, and sadly you are also free to post whatever info in videos you want, but it would be nice if you weren't adding and promoting more videos to the internet with improper info. That's just my personal opinion though.

 

[Chinchilla Girl]

You might want to actually do some research on proper care before posting chinchilla care videos... the newest video about treats has a lot of misinformation or at best outdated info in it. Goji berries are only really safe about once a month at most, not every other day. Also fruits, even dried are VERY bad for chins, drying them only removes the moisture not the sugar. A diet high in sugar will lead to several health issue including diabetes, liver and kidney failure, seizures, blindness, tooth decay, and obesity to name a few. Many of the issues take time before you notice them, but will in most cases shorten your chin's life, I know some petstores say they only live about 10 years, but with proper care (as well as good genetics and luck) they can live well into the their 20s or even 30s. In case you don't know most chinchilla pellets already contain sugar, and so does hay, so giving sugary treats (like dried fruits) is adding additional sugar to the diet on top of that. On the topic of hay, brand actually doesn't matter much, the nutrient values vary widely based on time of day, the area of the field, and cut of the hay. The reason it needs to make up so much of the diet is hay takes longer to chew then pellets, so it wears down the back teeth more then pellets do, the pellets already contain all the nutrients the chin needs.

I realize it's your chins and you can do what ever you want, and sadly you are also free to post whatever info in videos you want, but it would be nice if you weren't adding and promoting more videos to the internet with improper info. That's just my personal opinion though.

I have been doing research but sometimes I just don't know what's true or not I deleted the one that said the dried fruit was healthy. But everyone always has different opinions on what is healthy or not and I don't know what to believe at this point I try not to take information from old youtube videos. I understand that fruit is not ok for chinchillas and I knew that. But then when I was doing the research before posting my video a tone of stuff came up about dried fruit being ok for chinchillas. I don't know what to believe anymore and I keep making care mistakes with my chinchillas. I am trying my best to do everything right but I don't know how because there is so much more misinformation than there is correct information.

 

[Amethyst]

I have been doing research but sometimes I just don't know what's true or not I deleted the one that said the dried fruit was healthy. But everyone always has different opinions on what is healthy or not and I don't know what to believe at this point I try not to take information from old youtube videos. I understand that fruit is not ok for chinchillas and I knew that. But then when I was doing the research before posting my video a tone of stuff came up about dried fruit being ok for chinchillas. I don't know what to believe anymore and I keep making care mistakes with my chinchillas. I am trying my best to do everything right but I don't know how because there is so much more misinformation than there is correct information.

Yeah that's kind of the problem, people keep just repeating old/outdated info in new videos. Even "new" books on chins still contain reprints of info from the 1980s. It use to be thought that small amounts of dried fruits and veggies were ok when chins started to become more popular as pets in the 90s. It was thought that since they are similar to rabbits and guinea pigs that they must eat the same things, sadly some vets still think this way. Most large scale breeders and fur ranchers don't feed treats so it wasn't until people got them as pets that it was discovered that treats like fruits contain too much sugar and lead to health issue down the line for most chins and on average cuts their life span down to less then 10 years. It's kind of like how people use to think that smoking cigarettes was good for you, but now we know it can cause long term health issues.

New info on chins is always coming out and changing. The newest thing is oats, cheerios, and shredded wheat are not really recommended anymore since they can cause gas (also big name brand ones test high for chemicals which is why you should go with only organic treat). It doesn't happen to all chins, but gas is a problem for chins when it happens since they have a hard time passing it and can become bloated and die if not treated. Too much oats can also throw off the calcium/phosphorus balance in the diet leading to a calcium deficiency. Personally I think the problem is more people staying home and ending up over feeding treats to their pets, oats fed in moderation like a few oats once a week is likely ok.

One thing that might help is when doing research, look into why something is considered safe or unsafe. That way you know the person isn't just repeating old lists of "safe" items without anything to back it up. Also when doing videos you can actually have facts to back up what you are saying is safe or not safe and help better educate people.

Here is one site that has safe treats and a explanation of what makes them good for chins. Supplies, Treats, Accessories for Rabbits, Guinea Pigs, Chinchillas, Ferrets, Rats
Also here is a list of safe treats, including some that aren't on the website I linked.

 

[Chinchilla Girl]

Yeah that's kind of the problem, people keep just repeating old/outdated info in new videos. Even "new" books on chins still contain reprints of info from the 1980s. It use to be thought that small amounts of dried fruits and veggies were ok when chins started to become more popular as pets in the 90s. It was thought that since they are similar to rabbits and guinea pigs that they must eat the same things, sadly some vets still think this way. Most large scale breeders and fur ranchers don't feed treats so it wasn't until people got them as pets that it was discovered that treats like fruits contain too much sugar and lead to health issue down the line for most chins and on average cuts their life span down to less then 10 years. It's kind of like how people use to think that smoking cigarettes was good for you, but now we know it can cause long term health issues.

New info on chins is always coming out and changing. The newest thing is oats, cheerios, and shredded wheat are not really recommended anymore since they can cause gas (also big name brand ones test high for chemicals which is why you should go with only organic treat). It doesn't happen to all chins, but gas is a problem for chins when it happens since they have a hard time passing it and can become bloated and die if not treated. Too much oats can also throw off the calcium/phosphorus balance in the diet leading to a calcium deficiency. Personally I think the problem is more people staying home and ending up over feeding treats to their pets, oats fed in moderation like a few oats once a week is likely ok.

One thing that might help is when doing research, look into why something is considered safe or unsafe. That way you know the person isn't just repeating old lists of "safe" items without anything to back it up. Also when doing videos you can actually have facts to back up what you are saying is safe or not safe and help better educate people.

Here is one site that has safe treats and a explanation of what makes them good for chins. Supplies, Treats, Accessories for Rabbits, Guinea Pigs, Chinchillas, Ferrets, Rats
Also here is a list of safe treats, including some that aren't on the website I linked.
View attachment 21458

Thank you so much this is very helpful!

 

[Lucretia]

As Amythyst says there is an awful lot of outdated info out there that gets perpetuated, and many sites that contradict one another. As a animal psychologist and member of ASAB (Association for the study of animal behaviour) I'm privileged to have access to thousands of chinchilla research and scientific papers which Ive trawled through til my eyes bled lol. (I like to know "why" and not rely on the "because we say so"). I don't want to bore you guys with science but there is one aspect of treats I'd like to interject with as I feel it has a huge bearing on chin health and you'll rarely see it in a normal search engine search. Recently on fb groups I'd been seeing a lot of chins with malo and kidney/bladder stones. I was intrigued how they developed stone's when excess calcium is passed though their faeces and not urine, and was there a link between that, malo and diet. Long story short and a lot of scientific research later I discovered the culprit was a compound called oxalate. As I said previously chin's excrete excess calcium though their poop, approx 83%, 1-3% through urine and approx 14% is absorbed for nutritional needs. Oxalate is a binding compound found in many leafy greens, some fruits and grains. It is like a magnet to calcium, causing it to form into crystals and in turn into stones in the kidneys and bladder. During this process the oxalate is utilising the calcium that the chin requires for nutritional requirements, this leads to calcium deficiency, which itself leads to weak bones, teeth etc. The effects of oxalate are increased in conjunction with a high fibre diet.
Food high in Oxalates.
Dandelions, the white sap in the stalk is soluable oxalate, so stalks should not be given to chinchilla under any circumstances. Leaves and flowers are also high in oxalates, so should only be given minimally, if prepared correctly.
Alfalfa. Alfalfa has a high oxalate content and should only be given to chins over 6 months as a treat.
Goji berries, are very high in oxalates.
Cheerios, due to the grain used in cheerios they are very high in oxalates.
Foods low in oxalates.
Spearmint.
Raspberry leaf (though raspberry fruit has a high content).
Nettle.
Drying in the sun will only minimally reduce Oxalate levels. Boiling is the only way to remove most of the oxalates, but this method is obviously not suitable for chinchilla. Baking in an oven will remove upto 50% of oxalate content. So if you do wish to give your chins high content oxalate food keep it to a bare minimum and ensure it is baked and not dehydrated.

The Individualistic chinchilla
References
Exotic companion mammal -urolithiasis. Peter G Fisher DVM, DABVP
Guinea pigs, chinchilla and degus. Anne Mcbride and Anne Meredith
Rodent nutrition, digestive comparisons of 4 common rodent species. Kerrin Grant, MS
Urolithiasis in chinchilla. A Martel-Arquette and C Man's
Guinea pig and chinchilla care and husbandry. Thomas M Donnelly DVM, Cynthia J Brown DVM
Caring for your pet chinchilla. NY state veterinary hospital, exotic animal medicine dept.
Nutrition of chinchilla. Academic
Oxalate acid content of selective foods. Labfervet
Kidney and bladder stones in chinchilla. Small pet select
Exotic animal care- chinchilla. Companion animal hospital
Chinchilla dental health. Chincare
Causes and signs of kidney disease in small pets. Pet coach
Urolithiasis, not just a 2 legged animal disease. Journal of Urology. Mariner Robinson
Disease overview of urinary tract in exotic companion mammals. The veterinary clinics of North America. Dr Lennox.
Oxalate binding proteins in calcium oxalate. Periandavan Kalsiselvi
Accumulation of oxalate and calcium in organs.
Oxalate deposition in tissue. Nasuhi E Aydin.
Oxalate toxicity in renal cells. Cheryl Schid and Madeley Schmidt.

 

[HaXena]

As Amythyst says there is an awful lot of outdated info out there that gets perpetuated, and many sites that contradict one another. As a animal psychologist and member of ASAB (Association for the study of animal behaviour) I'm privileged to have access to thousands of chinchilla research and scientific papers which Ive trawled through til my eyes bled lol. (I like to know "why" and not rely on the "because we say so"). I don't want to bore you guys with science but there is one aspect of treats I'd like to interject with as I feel it has a huge bearing on chin health and you'll rarely see it in a normal search engine search. Recently on fb groups I'd been seeing a lot of chins with malo and kidney/bladder stones. I was intrigued how they developed stone's when excess calcium is passed though their faeces and not urine, and was there a link between that, malo and diet. Long story short and a lot of scientific research later I discovered the culprit was a compound called oxalate. As I said previously chin's excrete excess calcium though their poop, approx 83%, 1-3% through urine and approx 14% is absorbed for nutritional needs. Oxalate is a binding compound found in many leafy greens, some fruits and grains. It is like a magnet to calcium, causing it to form into crystals and in turn into stones in the kidneys and bladder. During this process the oxalate is utilising the calcium that the chin requires for nutritional requirements, this leads to calcium deficiency, which itself leads to weak bones, teeth etc. The effects of oxalate are increased in conjunction with a high fibre diet.
Food high in Oxalates.
Dandelions, the white sap in the stalk is soluable oxalate, so stalks should not be given to chinchilla under any circumstances. Leaves and flowers are also high in oxalates, so should only be given minimally, if prepared correctly.
Alfalfa. Alfalfa has a high oxalate content and should only be given to chins over 6 months as a treat.
Goji berries, are very high in oxalates.
Cheerios, due to the grain used in cheerios they are very high in oxalates.
Foods low in oxalates.
Spearmint.
Raspberry leaf (though raspberry fruit has a high content).
Nettle.
Drying in the sun will only minimally reduce Oxalate levels. Boiling is the only way to remove most of the oxalates, but this method is obviously not suitable for chinchilla. Baking in an oven will remove upto 50% of oxalate content. So if you do wish to give your chins high content oxalate food keep it to a bare minimum and ensure it is baked and not dehydrated.

The Individualistic chinchilla
References
Exotic companion mammal -urolithiasis. Peter G Fisher DVM, DABVP
Guinea pigs, chinchilla and degus. Anne Mcbride and Anne Meredith
Rodent nutrition, digestive comparisons of 4 common rodent species. Kerrin Grant, MS
Urolithiasis in chinchilla. A Martel-Arquette and C Man's
Guinea pig and chinchilla care and husbandry. Thomas M Donnelly DVM, Cynthia J Brown DVM
Caring for your pet chinchilla. NY state veterinary hospital, exotic animal medicine dept.
Nutrition of chinchilla. Academic
Oxalate acid content of selective foods. Labfervet
Kidney and bladder stones in chinchilla. Small pet select
Exotic animal care- chinchilla. Companion animal hospital
Chinchilla dental health. Chincare
Causes and signs of kidney disease in small pets. Pet coach
Urolithiasis, not just a 2 legged animal disease. Journal of Urology. Mariner Robinson
Disease overview of urinary tract in exotic companion mammals. The veterinary clinics of North America. Dr Lennox.
Oxalate binding proteins in calcium oxalate. Periandavan Kalsiselvi
Accumulation of oxalate and calcium in organs.
Oxalate deposition in tissue. Nasuhi E Aydin.
Oxalate toxicity in renal cells. Cheryl Schid and Madeley Schmidt.

THANK YOU for sharing your knowledge and hard work with us!!
Dandelions are on the “safe treat” page posted by Amethyst. Is there anything else on the list you disagree with, or do you have a safe treat list of your own?
Is there any treat that can be given daily?

 

[Chinchilla Girl]

As Amythyst says there is an awful lot of outdated info out there that gets perpetuated, and many sites that contradict one another. As a animal psychologist and member of ASAB (Association for the study of animal behaviour) I'm privileged to have access to thousands of chinchilla research and scientific papers which Ive trawled through til my eyes bled lol. (I like to know "why" and not rely on the "because we say so"). I don't want to bore you guys with science but there is one aspect of treats I'd like to interject with as I feel it has a huge bearing on chin health and you'll rarely see it in a normal search engine search. Recently on fb groups I'd been seeing a lot of chins with malo and kidney/bladder stones. I was intrigued how they developed stone's when excess calcium is passed though their faeces and not urine, and was there a link between that, malo and diet. Long story short and a lot of scientific research later I discovered the culprit was a compound called oxalate. As I said previously chin's excrete excess calcium though their poop, approx 83%, 1-3% through urine and approx 14% is absorbed for nutritional needs. Oxalate is a binding compound found in many leafy greens, some fruits and grains. It is like a magnet to calcium, causing it to form into crystals and in turn into stones in the kidneys and bladder. During this process the oxalate is utilising the calcium that the chin requires for nutritional requirements, this leads to calcium deficiency, which itself leads to weak bones, teeth etc. The effects of oxalate are increased in conjunction with a high fibre diet.
Food high in Oxalates.
Dandelions, the white sap in the stalk is soluable oxalate, so stalks should not be given to chinchilla under any circumstances. Leaves and flowers are also high in oxalates, so should only be given minimally, if prepared correctly.
Alfalfa. Alfalfa has a high oxalate content and should only be given to chins over 6 months as a treat.
Goji berries, are very high in oxalates.
Cheerios, due to the grain used in cheerios they are very high in oxalates.
Foods low in oxalates.
Spearmint.
Raspberry leaf (though raspberry fruit has a high content).
Nettle.
Drying in the sun will only minimally reduce Oxalate levels. Boiling is the only way to remove most of the oxalates, but this method is obviously not suitable for chinchilla. Baking in an oven will remove upto 50% of oxalate content. So if you do wish to give your chins high content oxalate food keep it to a bare minimum and ensure it is baked and not dehydrated.

The Individualistic chinchilla
References
Exotic companion mammal -urolithiasis. Peter G Fisher DVM, DABVP
Guinea pigs, chinchilla and degus. Anne Mcbride and Anne Meredith
Rodent nutrition, digestive comparisons of 4 common rodent species. Kerrin Grant, MS
Urolithiasis in chinchilla. A Martel-Arquette and C Man's
Guinea pig and chinchilla care and husbandry. Thomas M Donnelly DVM, Cynthia J Brown DVM
Caring for your pet chinchilla. NY state veterinary hospital, exotic animal medicine dept.
Nutrition of chinchilla. Academic
Oxalate acid content of selective foods. Labfervet
Kidney and bladder stones in chinchilla. Small pet select
Exotic animal care- chinchilla. Companion animal hospital
Chinchilla dental health. Chincare
Causes and signs of kidney disease in small pets. Pet coach
Urolithiasis, not just a 2 legged animal disease. Journal of Urology. Mariner Robinson
Disease overview of urinary tract in exotic companion mammals. The veterinary clinics of North America. Dr Lennox.
Oxalate binding proteins in calcium oxalate. Periandavan Kalsiselvi
Accumulation of oxalate and calcium in organs.
Oxalate deposition in tissue. Nasuhi E Aydin.
Oxalate toxicity in renal cells. Cheryl Schid and Madeley Schmidt.

Thank you for this information

 

[Amethyst]

As Amythyst says there is an awful lot of outdated info out there that gets perpetuated, and many sites that contradict one another. As a animal psychologist and member of ASAB (Association for the study of animal behaviour) I'm privileged to have access to thousands of chinchilla research and scientific papers which Ive trawled through til my eyes bled lol. (I like to know "why" and not rely on the "because we say so"). I don't want to bore you guys with science but there is one aspect of treats I'd like to interject with as I feel it has a huge bearing on chin health and you'll rarely see it in a normal search engine search. Recently on fb groups I'd been seeing a lot of chins with malo and kidney/bladder stones. I was intrigued how they developed stone's when excess calcium is passed though their faeces and not urine, and was there a link between that, malo and diet. Long story short and a lot of scientific research later I discovered the culprit was a compound called oxalate. As I said previously chin's excrete excess calcium though their poop, approx 83%, 1-3% through urine and approx 14% is absorbed for nutritional needs. Oxalate is a binding compound found in many leafy greens, some fruits and grains. It is like a magnet to calcium, causing it to form into crystals and in turn into stones in the kidneys and bladder. During this process the oxalate is utilising the calcium that the chin requires for nutritional requirements, this leads to calcium deficiency, which itself leads to weak bones, teeth etc. The effects of oxalate are increased in conjunction with a high fibre diet.
Food high in Oxalates.
Dandelions, the white sap in the stalk is soluable oxalate, so stalks should not be given to chinchilla under any circumstances. Leaves and flowers are also high in oxalates, so should only be given minimally, if prepared correctly.
Alfalfa. Alfalfa has a high oxalate content and should only be given to chins over 6 months as a treat.
Goji berries, are very high in oxalates.
Cheerios, due to the grain used in cheerios they are very high in oxalates.
Foods low in oxalates.
Spearmint.
Raspberry leaf (though raspberry fruit has a high content).
Nettle.
Drying in the sun will only minimally reduce Oxalate levels. Boiling is the only way to remove most of the oxalates, but this method is obviously not suitable for chinchilla. Baking in an oven will remove upto 50% of oxalate content. So if you do wish to give your chins high content oxalate food keep it to a bare minimum and ensure it is baked and not dehydrated.

The Individualistic chinchilla
References
Exotic companion mammal -urolithiasis. Peter G Fisher DVM, DABVP
Guinea pigs, chinchilla and degus. Anne Mcbride and Anne Meredith
Rodent nutrition, digestive comparisons of 4 common rodent species. Kerrin Grant, MS
Urolithiasis in chinchilla. A Martel-Arquette and C Man's
Guinea pig and chinchilla care and husbandry. Thomas M Donnelly DVM, Cynthia J Brown DVM
Caring for your pet chinchilla. NY state veterinary hospital, exotic animal medicine dept.
Nutrition of chinchilla. Academic
Oxalate acid content of selective foods. Labfervet
Kidney and bladder stones in chinchilla. Small pet select
Exotic animal care- chinchilla. Companion animal hospital
Chinchilla dental health. Chincare
Causes and signs of kidney disease in small pets. Pet coach
Urolithiasis, not just a 2 legged animal disease. Journal of Urology. Mariner Robinson
Disease overview of urinary tract in exotic companion mammals. The veterinary clinics of North America. Dr Lennox.
Oxalate binding proteins in calcium oxalate. Periandavan Kalsiselvi
Accumulation of oxalate and calcium in organs.
Oxalate deposition in tissue. Nasuhi E Aydin.
Oxalate toxicity in renal cells. Cheryl Schid and Madeley Schmidt.

This is a good example of finding out the why behind things, and how new info and research is being done changing what we thought was safe, so the lists are always changing. I wonder what you suggested amount for treats is? Personally I don't give the same treat each time and mine only get a treat about once or twice a week. If you look at the top of the list I posted it does say treats should be given only 2-3 times a week (as in total not for each treat), it doesn't say is treat size though, that should only be a small pinch. So for something like the dandelions it's just a small piece of leaf about the size of the tip of your finger, not a whole leaf. Most have more then one reason for needing to be limited though, for example, again the dandelion, I read that the reason it needs to be limited is because they are high in calcium and are a diuretic (makes them pee), so only a small piece once or twice a week. I've also heard that young dandelion, when it's just leaves before it grows flowers, is better for them then older dandelion. The goji berries the biggest issue I've heard is the sugar content, which can lead to health issues, so those are only a once a month treat, though I don't give them at all (never have) and I've starting to see some people aren't giving them anymore either. The alfalfa the other issues is the high calcium and protein levels, so I can definitely see the issue with alfalfa being high in calcium and oxalate, leading to urinary tract stones.

I also do find it interesting that you say most of the calcium is passed though poop not urine, I always heard they pee most of the excess calcium out, or at least higher then only 1-3%. It would explain why stones form in the bladder and kidneys, and why you end up with calcium residue when their pee dries. I understand that high oxalate, as well as high calcium, increases stones, urinary tract stones are made of calcium oxalate (well at least one type is), but if most of the calcium is pooped out not peed out I would think the calcium level would have to be extremely high to be enough to cause stones then. I could be wrong though, so not arguing just trying to learn.

 

[Lucretia]

This is a good example of finding out the why behind things, and how new info and research is being done changing what we thought was safe, so the lists are always changing. I wonder what you suggested amount for treats is? Personally I don't give the same treat each time and mine only get a treat about once or twice a week. If you look at the top of the list I posted it does say treats should be given only 2-3 times a week (as in total not for each treat), it doesn't say is treat size though, that should only be a small pinch. So for something like the dandelions it's just a small piece of leaf about the size of the tip of your finger, not a whole leaf. Most have more then one reason for needing to be limited though, for example, again the dandelion, I read that the reason it needs to be limited is because they are high in calcium and are a diuretic (makes them pee), so only a small piece once or twice a week. I've also heard that young dandelion, when it's just leaves before it grows flowers, is better for them then older dandelion. The goji berries the biggest issue I've heard is the sugar content, which can lead to health issues, so those are only a once a month treat, though I don't give them at all (never have) and I've starting to see some people aren't giving them anymore either. The alfalfa the other issues is the high calcium and protein levels, so I can definitely see the issue with alfalfa being high in calcium and oxalate, leading to urinary tract stones.

I also do find it interesting that you say most of the calcium is passed though poop not urine, I always heard they pee most of the excess calcium out, or at least higher then only 1-3%. It would explain why stones form in the bladder and kidneys, and why you end up with calcium residue when their pee dries. I understand that high oxalate, as well as high calcium, increases stones, urinary tract stones are made of calcium oxalate (well at least one type is), but if most of the calcium is pooped out not peed out I would think the calcium level would have to be extremely high to be enough to cause stones then. I could be wrong though, so not arguing just trying to learn.

As you say, moderation is key, I personally give no more than a teaspoon 2-3 times a week and I'll alternate, avoiding oxalates totally is almost imposible if you are giving treats.. You also make mention to sugar content etc, this is very true, some items classed as treats can be high in sugar as well other compounds, as a result they can cause other issues in conjunction such as diabetes, obesity etc. Yeah dandelions are also high in calcium so it makes them a double whammy. But chins do love them, and who can resist those faces lol. It is not very often mentioned that chins excrete excess calcium via faeces, in fact, I believe I've only seen it in scientific research papers, the most prominent I can remember is one by Stefani Hansen 2012 with relation to chinchilla calcium metabolism, her research concluded "Characterisation of calcium metabolism of chinchillas :There was a strong correlation between calcium intake and calcium excretion via faeces: with rising calcium intake also calcium excretion via faeces increased. At least about 80 to more than 100 % of calcium intake were excreted by this way. Only small amounts of calcium were excreted via urine (about 1-3 % of calcium intake), even at very high calcium intake (17.9 g/kg DM diet)". I have to say, that with the popularity of chins on the rise as pets that it's disappointing the available research isn't filtered down to be utilised by chin owners, but I'm hoping to slowly change that, though I have been met with a proverbial brick wall where some breeders are concerned. Kidney and bladder stones, tend to be prevalent in chin over 4 years of age, my conclusion here was that that a diet high in oxalate's causes a relatively slow build up of crystalline calciates. By no means am I suggesting people throw away all treats, my aim is simply to arm owners with infomation that can have a bearing on their fur babies health and to reiterate. .. moderation.