Strange Colors, any suggestions?

[Riven]

Don't pet people deserve quality healthy chins too? I will never understand when people say "They're just pets" if you cage two chins together, and allow them to mate, you are a breeder, you are letting them breed. So yes, you are breeding rescue chins. Have the male neutered or re-pair in same sex pairs. It will not kill either of them.

I know that I distinctly recall three chins on your our chins page specifically say rescue. Are you wrong right now, or is your site wrong? The would be Gus, Haze, and Guinness.

You know, I started once too, and I was told my chins were all crap, literally that's the short of what I was told. I accepted it, sold them as pets to good homes except one ( I had nine at that time ) and started off, the better way, with quality. Why spend years trying to make quality out of low quality, when you can just start off with high quality to start?

I'm really not trying to be mean, as a fellow breeder you will get further, faster that way. And Guinness is not a **** eb, technically there is no such thing, it's a misnomer as well, but it is used to describe a chin with all totally black fur. He would be a dark eb, who is very narrow and racy and needs a bath. That might be taken as mean, but that's what I see when I look at the photo of him.

If you want to be a good breeder, the resources are available. If you want help or advice feel free to contact me, or one of the multiple other breeders here or else where and generally we're more than glad to help share what we know. I haven't heard anyone say they know it all, but why not learn from other people's experience? When I get the chance to listen to someone who's won National awards and have breed quality animals I take it!

 

[shuboyje]

I'm gonna try to stay civil and reply here with constructive criticism.

I didn't know that I could have an extremely light beige.

You are far from the first person to make this mistake, it this same question was posted MANY times on CnQ.

But the people who are judging me for breeding rescues are wrong. I don't breed rescues, as I said in a previous post. I am just in this to breed good quality pets.

There is no reason to be in it just to breed pets. You need to set a high bar, because even then you will produce lesser quality animals for pet sales just as every breeders does, even the best in the world.

I think that people need to be a little less judgemental towards a guy that has only 21 chins, and is just getting started. I'm sorry I offended any of you with the way I breed my chins, against you're suggestions...sorry.

"only" 21 chins is a misnomer. In 2006 I showed a string of standards produced by my 12 breeding females that placed in the top 5 breeders awards at a state show and a national show. It only takes one female to produce a grand show is another common saying in chins. 5 years and 21 chins is far from what most would consider "just starting out", you could be well established at this point if you had followed good breeding practices.

And for futher refrence, the ONLY rescues I have taken in, GUS, and HAZE have been together for 6 years, and I don't think it was smart to seperate them, as they do so well together. I'm sorry they've had babies, but that is NOT within my control. Do I know they're backgrounds, no. But I'm certainly not breeding them with my base herd, I'm just going to find good homes for the kits. Hope that helps too.

They will do fine apart, and that would be the path most would advice you to follow. Their breeding is completely within your control you are 100 times their size, hence you can easily move them to seperate quarters where they cannot mate.

 

[LovableFuzziezandCrawliez]

I don't breed rescues, as I said in a previous post. I am just in this to breed good quality pets.

Im sorry, really really sorry - but your own website says that you do. How can you explain that? Just so that we all understand.

Our idea of a rescue is a chinchilla that was given up by previous owners, that is pet quality, that has no recorded genetic pedigree that extends three generation.

Your website says "rescued" beside certain chinchillas (Gus, Haze, and Guinness - as Riven pointed out) so we assume that you are breeding unpedigreed chinchillas.

 

[ABBY W.]

I agree. I, too am a hobby breeder. But the fact that my animals are being sold primarily as pets does not remove my obligation as a breeder to breed only the most genetically fit animals. The rescued chins you are breeding may very well be producing offspring that are dying at a young age, or having to endure painful lifelong medical conditions. As an animal lover and a conscientious breeder this should concern you, and you should strive to put a stop to it as best you can. Perhaps, if you feel the pair absolutely cannot be separated, then you could have the male neutered, so they don't produce more offspring. I don't typically recommend neutering, but I think in some circumstances it is warranted.

As for your breeding herd, perhaps you should try to take better photographs for your website. If you are advertising your animals this way you want to make the best impression possible. Many of your animals look small, thinly furred, and in need of a dust bath. It could be that they are not high quality, as you believe, or it could be simply poor photography. We all know that getting a good picture of a chinchilla can be difficult. If you correct the photographic issues and still see flaws in your animals, you shoudl consider culling the lower quality animals, and investing in some better breeding stock.

Just some constructive criticism.

 

[TillyChinchilla]

The rule I was taught was if you can blow on their fur directly, and not see any skin, the fur is think enough to be good quality.

Whoever told you this left out a LOT of other stuff. How about color clarity, tightness of the fur? Good veiling? Tinting or oxidation on your whites and beiges? A blue hue? Conformation, size? Just having a good fur density doesn't mean it is a good animal! The blowing into the fur is just one of the many things to look for in a quality animal.

Most of the chins on your site are noticeably pet quality - but I'd like for somebody more experienced with quality to say something else about that.

Your chins have obviously had a lot of litters. For some reason you don't seem to see that you are breeding animals that may be healthy, but they are not breeding quality! There are so many pet quality chins out there already.

 

[Ash]

And Guiness fits in where? And even if Gus and Haze had been together for six years, get him neutered and they can live happily ever after. You have the money to shell out for an emergency vet bill (or at least I'd hope so since you breed and rescue), so you should have it to get him fixed.

I have a m/f here who lived together for five years before I got them. When they got here, they were seperated. Neither's the worse for wear. Both are quite happy with their same sex cagemates. And there's many of us who do that and it works quite well, so....

 

[Carol~Anne]

Five years is not enough time to proclaim everything okay. Chinchillas can live up to twenty years (although fifteen is high) and you have no idea how much wreckage and ruin you're leaving behind for others to deal with. If you want to breed, then do it right otherwise others will be paying for your mistakes for a long time.

 

[Parkerspetchins]

I am not a breeder nor do I know everything about chins there is to know. I do know that every time YOU breed a chinchilla whose background you do not know, YOU are adding into the COLLECTIVE chinchilla gene pool genes which you have no idea their effect on this gene pool. Anyone who breeds a chinchilla and sells it to another breeder or a pet person who may decide they want some more cute kits someday has a responsibility to chinchillas, not to mention the people that love them, to only strive to pass on genes of the highest quality. Anyone who takes that responsibility lightly is really doing a disservice to chinchillas and can by no means claim to have their best interests at heart. Believe it or not, YOU have an affect on the chinchillas of the future, a scary thought when it isn't being done with care. You may only have one "rescue" pair, I don't know, but unless you are keeping every one of those kits to guarantee they are not being bred (signing a piece of paper doesn't mean anything when someone is determined and not a little dishonest) then who knows how many chinchillas belonging to that line are out there really. It doesn't matter, one is too many.

 

[carltonchins]

I understand what you are all saying, however you don't know for sure. It's like lumping every criminal into the same prison regardless of whether they have had a trial or not. Someone might be innocent!

I can appreciate that you all are just looking out for the best interest of the chins, but what I FELL you all are forgetting is my chins are healthy, and happy. I don't claim to have show chins, nor do I care to go to shows to be the best. I don't care. I might go the the show in Belleview just to get some great info, but beyond that, I don't breed for show.

even if I was breeding chins beyond my means, and breeding pairs together that are not healthy, the kits would still do find for quite some time.

I am NOT in this to make money or breed poor animals, but come on guys...not everyone can breed top notch chins, and sometimes people just want good tempered pets REGARDLESS of their fur quality.

There is NOTHING wrong with my babies. They bathe every other day in silica free dust (blue cloud) and they are clean and healthy. What else do you want me to say?

 

[bubbadoo38]

I don't usually post regarding breeding as I only have pet quality chins. I have a nice beige male whom I neutered to stay with mom, as mom was a surrender from the humane society. My beige has a nice thick coat, but until I visited Peggy and saw her herd I never would have known what a quality chin looked like. And Peggy and all the people on CNQ and CNH have been a great help giving sound advise on keeping my chins healthy. The more I learn the more I worry every day about my chins health and keep an extra close eye on my on them as I have no idea what their genetic background is. I'm just glad I made the choice to make sure no breeding would ever happen.

 

[TillyChinchilla]

If you are bathing them every other day, and they look that bad - you need to check the humidity of the room they are in, it must be intolerable. Chins don't look like that if they are bathed every other day - which is too often for the weather in your area right now anyway. Their skin would be very dry.

That "don't care" attitude will get you nowhere when you are dealing with chins. You won't be able to make any more contacts than a backyard breeder, which is sad because it seems like you do care for your animals.

 

[Ash]

btw, Carlton. "U" isn't even a real year-letter for pedigrees. It's skipped. So you might wanna fix your rescues information there. Since he's a rescue though, it's probably made up.

 

[alli713]

J People go ape over gerbils.....I have 2....their life span is what, 4 years at most? even if I was breeding chins beyond my means, and breeding pairs together that are not healthy, the kits would still do find for quite some time.

Okay, honestly, I find this really sad. So you think that if a chin lives over 4 years of age that that should be good enough? If a healthy chin could potentially live for 20+ years (I've heard of one reaching 25 yrs but there could be more) you're happy with them just being okay for quite some time (4+ years)?
Tell that to someone who gets so attached to their chin. Tell someone who loves their pet chin that they should be happy their chin made it to 5 years after they just had to put it down because it maloccluded due to poor breeding. Because I'm sure they'll feel the same way as you (note the sarcasm)

Forgive me if I interpreted what you said wrong, but that's how I saw it, and I find that really irresponsible of you.

 

[VolunteerChin22]

Ok - struggling to be nice here. I am beyond appalled that you would "lump" all of us together (regardless of years of breeding experience) who are ALL giving you the same advice, into people who don't know what they are talking about...If you were in a room full of executives and professors of business who had years of combined experience would you tell them that their techniques about how to start a business were wrong?? Probably from the sound of your posts...

If you were in a room with me I would give you the V8 'doh to the head for the crap you are saying...You don't have the animals' best interests in mind at all if you just use them to pump out mediocre and poor quality kits into a market that is already saturated with pet quality chinchillas...many rescues are inundated with all they can handle that need homes - why breed more to find homes for? Because that's all they are - they aren't breeding quality because that rules out responsible breeders as buyers so I think the "best" to hope for is some saps who know nothing about chins and hey, if we are all lucky - will breed your rescue kits.

Your chins look extremely greasy and wedge shaped in your pictures and it is not possible that you are bathing them as often as you say you are. But you know everything by blowing into their fur about quality - I forgot...

 

[Parkerspetchins]

I understand what you are all saying, however you don't know for sure. It's like lumping every criminal into the same prison regardless of whether they have had a trial or not. Someone might be innocent!

Hmmm...latent feelings of guilt....

I can appreciate that you all are just looking out for the best interest of the chins, but what I FELL you all are forgetting is my chins are healthy, and happy.

Denial...

People go ape over gerbils.....I have 2....their life span is what, 4 years at most? even if I was breeding chins beyond my means, and breeding pairs together that are not healthy, the kits would still do find for quite some time.

Detachment and disassociation...

I am NOT in this to make money or breed poor animals, but come on guys...not everyone can breed top notch chins, and sometimes people just want good tempered pets REGARDLESS of their fur quality.

Inferiority Complex...

Just trying to figure out what might make you understand what we are trying to say...:wacko:

 

[Diva Chins]

I can appreciate that you all are just looking out for the best interest of the chins, but what I FELL you all are forgetting is my chins are healthy, and happy. I don't claim to have show chins, nor do I care to go to shows to be the best. I don't care. I might go the the show in Belleview just to get some great info, but beyond that, I don't breed for show.

Breeders, I think will agree with me when I say this. The purpose of putting 2 animals of the opposite sex in a cage together is to BREED TO BETTER THE SPECIES. Breed for the traits that make the chinchilla known as the chinchilla. Breed to ensure that the offspring are free of genetic illness. Breed to ensure that the kits you sell will some day (Unless other wise noted) be a great breeder if desired. Breed to give someone a long living pet or breeder to the best of your abilities.

Breeding rescues is NOT the way to go. You want to know what happens when you breed two crappy animals? This:

This is Jupiter. He is a rescue. I took him in because if I didn't take him in, he was going to get shoved in a shelter. You know what? I LOVE this little boy with every single fiber of my being, he chirps til I give him scritches, he wants me to hold him, he loves me back and I can see it. Does that mean I'd breed him? NO. Because I know how irresponsible and moronic that is.

Do you think you're being fair? Honestly. Do you think you're being fair to these chins who have probably already suffered in their life time before coming to you whether or not they're 'pampered' in your care by breeding them? Do you think it's fair that these chins are being bred by you and don't have a say so in the matter? Do you think it's fair they can't chirp up and say "I think I might carry malo, maybe you shouldn't make me have any more babies" You have NO idea on their background and this is upsetting me.
I tried being nice but this just tugs my heart strings. I love my Jupiter to death, but I'd NEVER curse his offspring with the kind of life they'd have with genetics by putting him into breeding, REGARDLESS of how sweet and kind he is. You need to think about that.

 

[Peep_erz]

With the price of a petstore chin/craigs list chin/"Pet quality chin" compared to a good breeding chin it is well within anyones means to breed top notch chins. With that said, it is more than feasible to breed top quality chins that have a good temperament to be a pet chin.

 

[alli713]

Oh, and just to point out also, that reputable breeders can also have friendly chins. So obviously they're doing something right. I have 4 chins from breeders and 1 chin from a backyard breeder basically. All of my 4 chins from breeders with great lines are ALL friendly. I don't have a single mean chin. So, this goes to show that you can have nice friendly pet chins while still maintaining high standards.

 

[carltonchins]

I try to be nice, and all I get is people who start out by saying," I am trying to sound nice..."

I don't need this. If you all cared for chins the way you say you do, then you would call the local police and have them take me away because I don't breed or care for them the way you do. I gave this a second chance, I really did. Now that my wife had read all this, she says the same thing. This is a waste of time. I was hoping for help and advice, but all I get is people quoting me, misquoting me, reading too much into it, and being generally nasty when it comes to all this. I reall am out. I'm resinding my membership, and not reading this crap anymore.

My animals are healthy and happy, screw you all for judging me.

 

[Stackie]

It's a shame you can't grow a thicker skin, take some advice, and have your chin's best interests at heart. This place really has a lot of valuable information and you're really only hurting your chins by rejecting that resource.