starleomach
Dawnna's Keeper
just disgusting. do not breed rescues. it is a huge sisaterous mess. if you must breed get good quality stock from Good breeders.
Help Support Chinchilla & Hedgehog Pet Forum:
- Status
C
Chinniechantel
Guest
Wow, is all I can say. Seriously people, when did it become ok to breed rescues? I have seen this so many times recently, and it just makes me sick. Anyone that calls themselves a rescue and keeps breeding rescued chins is very wrong. Those kits that are born sure are not being "rescued". Poor chins.
Vyxxin
RAF Chins
Breeding ethics aside, that is simply a beige. Two beige to be exact and a standard gray. Very basic color genetics...I doubt there are recessives but there could be...but assuming you are right about the genetics (which we have to because there's no point otherwise) the light one is just a beige...here's a picture of a hetero beige I had born here once.
Attachments
C
carltonchins
Guest
Okay everyone here is the deal. I have TWO rescue chins....they came together and I kept them together because they had kits in the past. The rest of my chinchillas I have had for 5 or more years with the exception of my new herd additions which I aquired from Valley View Chinchilla Ranch in Vista California. I have pedigrees on all these chins, and their health and fur quality are of normal above normal value.
I'm not a moron, I know what I'm doing, I just don't have all the answers you know? I was looking for a little help with a simple question, and now I have people pleading with me to stop breeding. What gives?
I take in rescues, yes......But unless I have a pedigree or a background on them, I don't breed them, I just try to find them a good home. Maybe I should change my creed page and adjust the wording a little bit, who knows maybe this time I'll write it in crayon.
I'm not a moron, I know what I'm doing, I just don't have all the answers you know? I was looking for a little help with a simple question, and now I have people pleading with me to stop breeding. What gives?
I take in rescues, yes......But unless I have a pedigree or a background on them, I don't breed them, I just try to find them a good home. Maybe I should change my creed page and adjust the wording a little bit, who knows maybe this time I'll write it in crayon.
What does this mean exactly? Are you talking on the pelt market? Because that's the only place there is a real "value" on a chinchilla's fur. Otherwise, their value is as a breeding tool for breeders or value as a pet to pet owners.
If you want to discuss their conformation, clarity, color, then that's different, and I would assume you've had them evaluated by a judge, not just your opinion. Have you attended shows? Have you had them evaluated by an experienced rancher or a judge? That is what people are talking about when they talk about breeding "quality" animals, otherwise it's just another backyard breeding with more animals that will end up in rescue.
There is a show up in your neck of the woods. Check the show section here and watch for the announcement. There are also several in California, but it would involve a bit of traveling. Try to attend one and see how your chins stand up against the breed standards. Then you can decide if they should still be breeding, including the ones you got from Valley View.
Also, as someone mentioned above, develop a thicker skin. Nobody called you a child. The only childish remark was about writing in crayon. If you come on a public forum and your website is there for everyone to see, then you have to expect that not everybody is going to be jumping up and down with your breeding practices. That's just how it is. But don't get offended and angry. Take what you can learn to better the life of your chins and use it. Just don't expect anybody on here to be excited because you are breeding rescues, no matter how you try to justify it. It just isn't going to happen.
C
carltonchins
Guest
Funny how this all happened from a simple harmless question. I'm sorry you all think my chins are doomed, I'm sorry I posted in the first place, I'm sorry I don't have all the answers. For a first post, this has not given me any answers, in fact all it's done is piss me off, and make me look like an idiot. So, I'm out. I don't need the drama from people who stand high on their balconies and claim to know everything.
It is a pity you have chosen to take offense and now want to leave in high dudgeon - there are a lot of very experienced and knowledgeable people on this forum - if you swallowed your wounded pride and stuck around you could learn some valuable lessons from this forum.
starleomach
Dawnna's Keeper
People are helping. but you are taking offense at honesty. If you want to learn, learn. Prove people wrong. go to a show, participate. and take information as it is. Breeding rescues is a bad bad bad idea evern if it is just 1 pair.
M
MerrittChinchillas
Guest
I to am curious as to how you came up with the VVCR as Valley View Chinchilla Ranch. As Nicole stated the brand belongs to Joe and has for years? Were you told that when you bought them?
alli713
..has a fleece addiction
Actually, people did answer your question. Some said that unless you know for absolute sure that the chins you bred have the background that you think they do (you would have had to of gotten the chins from someone with a reputable pedigree) you can't know if there was any beige in the standards lines or eb in either of the lines.
Also, some others pointed out that it could just be a really light hetero beige.
Riven
Bad Chin
I answered your question. And I never said you shouldn't breed, I just said you should breed quality animals. Which is not rescues, and on your site you have a rescue listed with a another chin as a breeder. Which contradicts what you just said.
C
Carol~Anne
Guest
You have been given a tonne of excellent, not to mention 'free' advice already. Reject it and it's your loss or accept it and you can/will benefit greatly from it. Ultimately it's your decision to make and in the end you will be the one to choose.
VolunteerChin22
I <3 dustbunnies
Obviously you aren't reading the advice you are being given with an open mind, but here's another shot.
Quoted directly from your website - "All of our chins are born out of coupled chin parents. What this means is that we don’t breed a pair and then separate the parents to breed with others. When we decide to put two chins together to breed they will stay together for life...This also cuts down on eventual inbreeding and unfavorable genetic mutations."
How does breeding rescues you have no history on "fit" in with your credo to prevent unfavorable genetic mutations? I would also like to know how you are reducing unfavorable genetic mutations if you can't properly identify ranch brands of animals you are breeding? So if malo were to pop up in your "paired for life" chins, then what would you do if you can't bear to seperate rescues now?
Quoted again directly from your website- "Any Chins that are taken in on rescues are not placed into breeding circumstances unless a pair that is taken in have already bred together." Umm - so what is the message here? Aww shucks, well rescues shouldn't be bred but I got lucky with two that are already together so what's a few more poor quality kits to end up in other people's rescues? Seriously dude, I don't understand how you can even defend this...
Your rescues should be seperated immediately and given the pet life they deserve - remember to "Again, just think about what is best for the chins and you can’t go wrong" quoted again from YOUR website.
Quoted directly from your website - "All of our chins are born out of coupled chin parents. What this means is that we don’t breed a pair and then separate the parents to breed with others. When we decide to put two chins together to breed they will stay together for life...This also cuts down on eventual inbreeding and unfavorable genetic mutations."
How does breeding rescues you have no history on "fit" in with your credo to prevent unfavorable genetic mutations? I would also like to know how you are reducing unfavorable genetic mutations if you can't properly identify ranch brands of animals you are breeding? So if malo were to pop up in your "paired for life" chins, then what would you do if you can't bear to seperate rescues now?
Quoted again directly from your website- "Any Chins that are taken in on rescues are not placed into breeding circumstances unless a pair that is taken in have already bred together." Umm - so what is the message here? Aww shucks, well rescues shouldn't be bred but I got lucky with two that are already together so what's a few more poor quality kits to end up in other people's rescues? Seriously dude, I don't understand how you can even defend this...
Your rescues should be seperated immediately and given the pet life they deserve - remember to "Again, just think about what is best for the chins and you can’t go wrong" quoted again from YOUR website.
D
Diva Chins
Guest
First I'd like to state that I don't breed. Second, I'd like to state that I'm a proud chin mom to 6, 2 of whom are rescues.
I've been accused in the past of breeding rescues, but on my part, it wasn't true at all and I realized people just needed to get to know me to know I'm not a bad person. While I don't support breeding rescues due to the fact of no background history, no peds, and due to this I doubt they've been evaluated by someone ordained to do so, I don't think you should breed these rescues regardless of if they've produced before or not. One person's mistakes should not continue on to be yours. If you had a pedigree for these chins, you could look on the ped yourself and check, which is another reason it's good to breed pedigreed chins (Or chins from a very trusted breeder who does not mess with recessives, I've heard of a few)
On the other hand, I'd like to see you stay personally. This forum is a great place to learn, make connections, etc. No one is trying to be mean or rude, they're just trying to say maybe you should take a step back, evaluate your situation and your herd, take a break and then dive back in. I'm sure if you asked nicely, a good breeder in your area would be willing to talk to you and help you.
And in closing, I do believe you just have a very light hetero beige kit. I've seen some kits who were really light hetero beiges that darken over time. It's fun to see.
S
Sheri
Guest
Ok I asked earlier what PRIV meant. Then I left after I read the answer because I needed to think about how to reply,without being B****y. I tend to come off that way sometimes without meaning to.
When I look at your web site and see so many chins that instead of ranch brands have "PRIV" where the ranch brand goes that concerns me. Then I start wondering are those really pedigreed chins or is that a way of not saying these are all unpedigreed chins? Then you put someone elses ranch brand down as where you got your chins and it is the wrong brand? I don't know, what I do know is people on here are trying to steer you in the right direction and everytime someone says what you don't want to hear you get defensive and go martyr on us.
Yes the majority of us on here, myself included, do not beleive rescue chins should be bred. Yes some of us are nicer about it than others. I tend to have to stop and think before I post about it. I am newer to chins but that one was not hard to figure out.
I was thinned skinned when I joined CnQ. There was a lady on there who toughened me up on there. Don't have to like people here but do take there advice.
When I look at your web site and see so many chins that instead of ranch brands have "PRIV" where the ranch brand goes that concerns me. Then I start wondering are those really pedigreed chins or is that a way of not saying these are all unpedigreed chins? Then you put someone elses ranch brand down as where you got your chins and it is the wrong brand? I don't know, what I do know is people on here are trying to steer you in the right direction and everytime someone says what you don't want to hear you get defensive and go martyr on us.
Yes the majority of us on here, myself included, do not beleive rescue chins should be bred. Yes some of us are nicer about it than others. I tend to have to stop and think before I post about it. I am newer to chins but that one was not hard to figure out.
I was thinned skinned when I joined CnQ. There was a lady on there who toughened me up on there. Don't have to like people here but do take there advice.
LovableFuzziezandCrawliez
Chinchilla Obsession!
That is a good point. A lot of people here are really protective of the codes and ethics of breeding chinchillas. People get defensive and are quick to jump on someone who brings up something that is, essentially, contradictory to those codes and ethics.
The fact that you mention on your website that you breed rescues really ruffled feathers!! It wasn't any lies - it was presented on your website in your own words.
People can be rude, but you need to look past that and try to understand what they are saying....
A lot is unknown genetically with rescued chins. People insist on breeding pedigreed chinchillas from reputable breeders because that way you know there should be no health problems arising in the kits. There is too many unknown risks from breeding rescues.
That is what people want you to understand.
Would it be so hard to admit that and start taking advice?
When I first started my rescue there were a few people on CnQ who told me that I don't know what Im doing. BUT - looking past those comments, people are concerned that you truly understand situations before you get involved in them. It is for the safety of yourself (and sanity) and the chinchillas in your care.
All people really want you to do is to change a few things to better the chinchillas in your care. Think about it - if you stop breeding rescues, you may end heart murmurs and malo!! Wouldn't that be a good thing?
However - after all that being said - I have a feeling that the OP won't be returning to read all this.
Last edited:
C
carltonchins
Guest
Fine, I admit that my question was answered, and the few people who have private messaged me have been very kind. I didn't know that I could have an extremely light beige.
But the people who are judging me for breeding rescues are wrong. I don't breed rescues, as I said in a previous post. I am just in this to breed good quality pets.
I don't have all the answers, but if my pride were hurt, I would probably just assume I was right, and you all were wrong. I'm here to learn too, but you can't deny that a simple question was met with such static that it kind of mad me angry. Here this is my first post, and I have people breathing down my throat, and taking my creed on the website out of context.
I think that people need to be a little less judgemental towards a guy that has only 21 chins, and is just getting started. I'm sorry I offended any of you with the way I breed my chins, against you're suggestions...sorry.
My chins are all HAPPY...ALL played with every day, and given the best quality food, hay, treats, and dust that money can buy. I'm not some poor guy who decided to hord chinchillas. I am WELL within my means of caring for hundreds of chinchillas if that was ends up happening. I started with 2, and now have 20 more in just under 5 years.
I think what it comes down to, is breeding chinchillas is alot like playing chess. I can sit you down in 15 minutes and teach you the basics, but it will take a LIFETIME to master. That is what bugs me the most. NONE OF YOU know all the answers, so don't treat me like an idiot. I will take advice, and CONSTRUCTIVE critism with pride and an open mind.
Hope that helps you all understand where I'm coming from. Thank You.
And for futher refrence, the ONLY rescues I have taken in, GUS, and HAZE have been together for 6 years, and I don't think it was smart to seperate them, as they do so well together. I'm sorry they've had babies, but that is NOT within my control. Do I know they're backgrounds, no. But I'm certainly not breeding them with my base herd, I'm just going to find good homes for the kits. Hope that helps too.
But the people who are judging me for breeding rescues are wrong. I don't breed rescues, as I said in a previous post. I am just in this to breed good quality pets.
I don't have all the answers, but if my pride were hurt, I would probably just assume I was right, and you all were wrong. I'm here to learn too, but you can't deny that a simple question was met with such static that it kind of mad me angry. Here this is my first post, and I have people breathing down my throat, and taking my creed on the website out of context.
I think that people need to be a little less judgemental towards a guy that has only 21 chins, and is just getting started. I'm sorry I offended any of you with the way I breed my chins, against you're suggestions...sorry.
My chins are all HAPPY...ALL played with every day, and given the best quality food, hay, treats, and dust that money can buy. I'm not some poor guy who decided to hord chinchillas. I am WELL within my means of caring for hundreds of chinchillas if that was ends up happening. I started with 2, and now have 20 more in just under 5 years.
I think what it comes down to, is breeding chinchillas is alot like playing chess. I can sit you down in 15 minutes and teach you the basics, but it will take a LIFETIME to master. That is what bugs me the most. NONE OF YOU know all the answers, so don't treat me like an idiot. I will take advice, and CONSTRUCTIVE critism with pride and an open mind.
Hope that helps you all understand where I'm coming from. Thank You.
And for futher refrence, the ONLY rescues I have taken in, GUS, and HAZE have been together for 6 years, and I don't think it was smart to seperate them, as they do so well together. I'm sorry they've had babies, but that is NOT within my control. Do I know they're backgrounds, no. But I'm certainly not breeding them with my base herd, I'm just going to find good homes for the kits. Hope that helps too.
Last edited by a moderator:
I
I<3MyChinnies
Guest
I haven't visited your site so maybe I shouldn't comment, but perhaps a suggestion would be to list GUS and HAZE separately on your site or not at all to distinguish between your breeding herd and your rescues. Because it seems that they will continue to have babies since you're keeping them together, maybe you could at least have people agree to take them as "pet only" since their history is unknown and they might not be old enough to know if they will develop malo or other poor genetically linked disorders. I have a pet store chin that I certainly would never breed because her fur is really not that great and I don't know her history, but she still makes a great pet
Hope to see you around here some more :thumbsup:
TillyChinchilla
Well-known member
This forum has a wealth of information and a lot of members that can quickly answer any questions you may have - but I think the consensus on this forum is that pet quality chins should not be bred. It seems like this is what you are doing. Chins are becoming more and more popular - so for a lot of enthusiasts it is becoming more of an importance to work to maintain a high show and breeding animal. It doesn't look like many of your chins are quality animals. The pictures on your site are of greasy and stained chins. They may have great personalities - which is important. I am sure they would make great pets. But if you have been in chins for five years and haven't seen the growing chin population and slew of people breeding pet store and pet quality animals, then something is wrong. If you are seriously wanting to be a part of the chin world - it is important that you make a good impact, not a bad one.
Last edited:
C
carltonchins
Guest
But how would you know if they are quality chins or not without seeing them better? The chins I have on there have 5x7 pics at best. Some of the mosiacs have stained tails yes. I'm not perfect. The rule I was taught was if you can blow on their fur directly, and not see any skin, the fur is think enough to be good quality. All but a couple of my chins fall into that category.
I will continue to breed the way I am because I am having healthy kits the have themselves given birth to healthy chins. I have not see a single fur biter or a malo chin since I have started. I have not had a single breach birth since I have started, and aside from a couple chins that havn't made it past the first 2 days, I have had nothing but success. The people I sell or give them to are happy, and so am I....so tell me, what is it I'm doing that is so wrong?!?!?!
I will continue to breed the way I am because I am having healthy kits the have themselves given birth to healthy chins. I have not see a single fur biter or a malo chin since I have started. I have not had a single breach birth since I have started, and aside from a couple chins that havn't made it past the first 2 days, I have had nothing but success. The people I sell or give them to are happy, and so am I....so tell me, what is it I'm doing that is so wrong?!?!?!
- Status
