Please help me figure out what is going on merged with Runny Nose thread

[momenteller]

Any word? What happened at the vet?

 

[Essentia]

It was a pretty good drive for her to get to Dr. Hart. She probably isn't home yet.

 

[SCchin]

We are home, it was a trapped tongue. He had barely 1/4 in. between the insides of his overgrown fanned out lower molars. No URI, no root problems that he could see. The above x-rays, this page, not the previous ones, show points, but I don't know how Dr. Hart saw them. We were out of there in 30 minutes!

The green stuff out of the nose was because he couldn't use his tongue, it was CC.

We are still having problems getting him to take CC. I don't think he knows he can use his tongue yet, and he is a little whigged out from the LONG car ride and anesthesia.

He took about 3 cc of CC this morning, and 10 cc yesterday, that is all he has eaten. He was 597 g today. Its a good thing we went today, he stopped eating late yesterday. He couldn't even get the CC down.

What do we do tonight? We are SO tired, but I'm not sure I can just go to bed and check on him tomorrow morning.

 

[Sycamore Chins]

Did he take x-rays? Did he do anything to the molars to prevent the tongue from being trapped again?

I'm very curious as to what I'm seeing on those x-rays to mistake it for root elongation of the bottom molars.

 

[menagerie]

Since there were two parallel threads about the same chin and the same problem, I have merged them.

 

[SCchin]

He said the x-rays are skewed and are casting shadows, if they are not straight on, they can do that. He thoroughly examined his lower jaw (it is fine, all lumps are symmetrical to both sides and normal), sedated him and looked at his teeth, and filed all of the lower molars. The incisors and upper molars are fine.

The clue to it not being root enlongation became clear yesterday when he could no longer swallow the CC, when his teeth just hurt, he will eat CC.

The drool and runny nose were due to the fact that he couldn't correctly address it with a non-functional tongue. Also, with a trapped tongue, you can't even drink water correctly and it goes all over the place.

I might be able to think of more tomorrow when I'm out of road coma and get some sleep. Speaking of sleep, what do I do about tonight and him not wanting any CC?

 

[Stackie]

So the vet doesn't think the teeth are growing through his jaw bone? Those x-rays you showed us were not shadows..it was quite clear those roots were horrible...in both sets you posted. Did he take his own set of x-rays, like he said he wanted to?

Paired with your other thread of him not wanting to eat, I think it's a pretty big red flag. I'm sorry, I hate to be a debby downer, but I wouldn't want to eat either if my teeth were in that condition...I can't imagine how painful it is.

 

[Claire D]

I've got to agree with Stackie I am afraid.

 

[ticklechin]

With that advanced degree of lower tooth involvement to trap the tongue, I am very suprised that the upper teeth are not involved and there is no elongation, it can happen but as fluid as the teeth are as far as movement usually if the issue is advanced the entire mouth in involved. It also bothers me that it was only 30 min, to put a chin under, do a good exam which includes perio probing, file the teeth, wake the chin up and moniter it coming out of the gas should take at least a hour, the actual filing takes 20 min or so. I have watched the entire process many times and 30 min round trip for the entire appointment can miss things. So he did not retake the x-rays?

 

[Sycamore Chins]

Those x-rays you showed us were not shadows..it was quite clear those roots were horrible...in both sets you posted.

I've got to agree with Stackie I am afraid.

Phew - glad I wasn't the only one to think that.

The rads are NOT that skewed. If you look at the tympanic bullae in the very second rad you posted, they are nearly lined up. You couldn't get much better alignment unless you had x-ray vision to position the skull.
If you compare them to rads of a normal skull the bottom roots are elongated - upon staring at the rads intensely, the roots aren't protruding from the jaw bone but they are not normal!

Would love to see new x-rays if he took them!

 

[Riven]

I saw that one of them was skewed, I noticed it, but not all of them.

There should NOT be lumps on the bottom jaw! There should not be lumps on the jaw to be symmetrical. There should be one natural curve of the jaw, just like a human's jaw only longer. The curve should not feel like a lump.

 

[Essentia]

I'm confused as to why he didn't take new xrays?

 

[Claire D]

With that advanced degree of lower tooth involvement to trap the tongue, I am very suprised that the upper teeth are not involved and there is no elongation, it can happen but as fluid as the teeth are as far as movement usually if the issue is advanced the entire mouth in involved.

I do not believe that there is no upper root involvement - I have to say that (IMO) the xrays show root involvement including the upper roots & there is definite divergence as well - the fact that the tongue was trapped below spurs would corroborate that.

The rads are NOT that skewed. If you look at the tympanic bullae in the very second rad you posted, they are nearly lined up. You couldn't get much better alignment unless you had x-ray vision to position the skull.
If you compare them to rads of a normal skull the bottom roots are elongated - upon staring at the rads intensely, the roots aren't protruding from the jaw bone but they are not normal!

Would love to see new x-rays if he took them!

Totally agree with this - I've seen better xrays but they are not that bad in terms of alignment. There are also quite a lot of artefacts on them but the roots are abnormal, no mater which angle one looks at. I just don't see how those xrays are considered normal.

I saw that one of them was skewed, I noticed it, but not all of them.

There should NOT be lumps on the bottom jaw! There should not be lumps on the jaw to be symmetrical. There should be one natural curve of the jaw, just like a human's jaw only longer. The curve should not feel like a lump.

I also agree with this. The two small, flat 'pips' which can be felt at the very back of the jawline are a normal part of the chin's anatomy but anything else is not normal.

I'm confused as to why he didn't take new xrays?

I think that makes several of us.

 

[SCchin]

Just getting up, was more than exhausted, I just don't know what to do. I have had three vets of good reputation, ALL exotic, one local, one in Charleston, one in Jacksonville (this one a rodent specialist) say his roots are fine. You do know the vet has to think he is bad enough to put down.....

He didn't think he needed more x-rays, he has both sets that are posted here.

The things at hand is to get the guy to eat.

MODERATORS: do you want to merge the emergency thread to here as well?

 

[SCchin]

I saw that one of them was skewed, I noticed it, but not all of them.

There should NOT be lumps on the bottom jaw! There should not be lumps on the jaw to be symmetrical. There should be one natural curve of the jaw, just like a human's jaw only longer. The curve should not feel like a lump.

I have seen information (don't ask me where, LOL) that says the lower jaw has lumps. The vet said so too. I am expecting a call, I will ask how many lumps he felt yesterday.

 

[SCchin]

With that advanced degree of lower tooth involvement to trap the tongue, I am very suprised that the upper teeth are not involved and there is no elongation, it can happen but as fluid as the teeth are as far as movement usually if the issue is advanced the entire mouth in involved. It also bothers me that it was only 30 min, to put a chin under, do a good exam which includes perio probing, file the teeth, wake the chin up and moniter it coming out of the gas should take at least a hour, the actual filing takes 20 min or so. I have watched the entire process many times and 30 min round trip for the entire appointment can miss things. So he did not retake the x-rays?

He had a major filing the end of Oct. The teeth weren't long, the bottom ones fanned inward. It may because the first vet that filed left the incisors, and it was a month after filing until we could get him to eat hay (the incisors were too long and got in the way). After the incisors were trimmed, he ate a lot of hay, that was Nov. and Dec. We were back there, he trimmed in about 10 min. and we all stayed with Quito while he woke up. He did lose a whole day of sleep while being at the vet and riding in the car.

Also, (I am just remembering things), he has a band of scar tissue where the mouth ulcer was that the vet said may bother him. It isn't elastic like the rest of the inside of his cheek, it is tougher. He said it might cause problems.

 

[ticklechin]

I do not believe that there is no upper root involvement - I have to say that (IMO) the xrays show root involvement including the upper roots & there is definite divergence as well - the fact that the tongue was trapped below spurs would corroborate that.



Totally agree with this - I've seen better xrays but they are not that bad in terms of alignment. There are also quite a lot of artefacts on them but the roots are abnormal, no mater which angle one looks at. I just don't see how those xrays are considered normal.


I also agree with this. The two small, flat 'pips' which can be felt at the very back of the jawline are a normal part of the chin's anatomy but anything else is not normal.


I think that makes several of us.

I can't open attachments so I cannot see the x-rays here, just going by what some of the members said that the uppers do not look that bad, that is why I question if the lowers are that horrid why the uppers are not alot more heavily involved.

 

[SCchin]

I think that is the roots, posters didn't think the upper roots were as bad as the lower roots.

 

[ticklechin]

I got the x-rays from the animal hospital you sent me by email-they are very good quality and very clear-x-ray # 1 shows very clear elongation of the lower 1st 3 molars, the first two look like they have penetrated and would be a bump. The base of the last molar has something going on-a blank space between the bone and to root which may be a abscess or a infection. # 2 x-ray looks like # 3 molar is missing the root about 1/2 way down and 1 and 2 molars are clearly elongated. The upper teeth are elongated and the roots are blunted like they have penetrated a open cavity. I am not a vet but have looked at alot of advanced cases of x-rays in my own animals along with a oral visual exam of same said animals and I would say this is a advanced case of malocclusion and elongation-the nasty points are also very visible in the first two x-rays.

I just want to add, that my vet Dentist is known nationwide for her expertise in chinchilla teeth and she does email consults with vets on x-rays, Her name is Dr. Wendy Beers and she is at Albany VCA animal hospital in CA.

 

[SCchin]

The vet just called. No lumps on the bottom of the jaw except for the two that are supposed to be there. It was my untrained observation because I am not familiar with what a chin's jaw feels like. He spent a long time feeling his jaw during the exam. He said if the maloclusion was bad, his jaw would be inflamed, and it isn't.

So, the priority now is to get him recovered. He ate a good bit of CC this afternoon, then went to sleep in his favorite corner, and wasn't hunched over. All good signs. If his teeth continue to give us enough trouble that we can't keep up with it, then we will make our decisions. Also, we will look for signs of pain in the future.