Photos of 1st Place Winning Chin Found On Craigslist

[Caroline]

So if the economy is so bad in your area, how are you going to sell those kits you make?

LOL of all the ridiculous comments so far, this one is one of the best!

 

[Spoof]

I was stating my opinion and encouraging a new breeder in hopes to save a dwindling population. Besides, the warn button has never worked for me since my opinion tends to to be a little more open.

I don't know how you guys could possibly know what happens without actually breeding. Pictures and words can only convey so much. If you have someone that is concerned enough about quality to make a thread like this then obviously they care, they may just not be able to express it correctly. They may have awesome chinchillas and really suck at photography.

Spoof, just wondering, why did you say "especially with ebony and violet"? It seems every breeder says something different so maybe it is just up to personal preference and experience...

It is experience with the lines in any given area. Up until 10 years ago herds were very isolated along with their mutation strains. There are only a couple of ebony lines in the U.S. and all trace back to geographical areas - one was the PNW, famous for it's amazing size and tendency to malocclude/chew. Those came from CA back in the old days (25+ years ago), and a very tiny ratty line from Canada. Over the last decade those have been crossed, a dam will have a range of tiny 400g rats to 900g bulldog style chins in the same litter. For the most part the malo/chewing has been bred down to a 1 in 5 or 6 occurrence - and in some cases has disappeared completely with the influx of the Underhill chins herd in 2002, which also brought in a random true charcoal gene and the mat type black fur.

You see, for a long time there were only two "public" herds to buy from in the PNW, Pacific Northwest Chinchillas in Seattle and the Curtis Critter herd in ID. Linda Clark of cascade chinchillas joined in and Ronda bought the Curtis Critter herd and also animals from all three. Since she has been wholesaling for over a decade 95% of the stock in that area is from her. In the last five years or so a lot of new breeders popped up and shipped in unrelated east coast lines - but didn't stay in business long enough for them to really take hold, nor did they produce en masse.

Anyhow, violet/sapphire is a situation similar to above. Ronda buys a lot of herds so I've gotten a rare chance to see things most people don't. Often people only see their herd and a few other "closed" local herds plus what is brought to show - and all of the chinchillas share the same base ancestry. Closed meaning the rancher has a base stock and may bring in animals on occasion to outcross. When you do that your herd stays true to the type you are breeding for but all genetically related.

When you bring in entire herds from all over North America your "type" changes with the best (or most productive) of whatever it is you've brought in. You get to see true hybrid vigor at it's best, animals that may have been isolated for 60 years used to outcross produce some bizarre effects. A herd that has been around a long time takes on it's own set of genetics and each is very unique.

So yes, I do have an odd view of genetics. Mostly I keep to myself and breed my Tov Tan Whites with whatever catches my fancy. I help Ronda show her chins and get mad when she points out that the ugly P.O.S. I told her to get rid of two years ago produced a half dozen top show animals. It happens a LOT. The bigger and more varied the herd, the more potential for stuff like that. As someone who is just starting out you will experience something similar until you breed enough generations to stabilize "your" lines.

I prefer the old school style of breeding color to color to keep the colors clean. Standards are not always the answer, especially if you can't find the right one. To acquire that understanding you need to experience it.

I love genetics and talking about chins, anyone is welcome to PM me if you'd like to chat on the phone. If you'd like to visit Ronda's herd in OR let her know - it's an amazing learning experience. )

 

[Gabby88]

I love genetics and talking about chins, anyone is welcome to PM me if you'd like to chat on the phone. If you'd like to visit Ronda's herd in OR let her know - it's an amazing learning experience. )

I think it's great that you're so willing to help people and share advice about genetics and breeding.

 

[menagerie]

So if the economy is so bad in your area, how are you going to sell those kits you make?

LOL of all the ridiculous comments so far, this one is one of the best!

Actually it's a valid question. If the economy is so bad and paying your mortgages leaves you unable to pay an extra $100 to get good breeding stock, then you have no business breeding.

 

[Chin_Parent]

I agree, even if you aren't intending to sell the chins that you produce, admitting that you don't have the money (or otherwise refuse) to buy high quality chins shows that you don't have money to cover the costs of breeding in general, i.e. hospital bills, supplies, extra cages, etc.

 

[ticklechin]

LOL of all the ridiculous comments so far, this one is one of the best!

Glad you think its so funny, I feel sorry for whatever animals you produce if you think overpopulation is not a issue. And if you can't afford a few extra bucks to get good quality animals and actually start out breeding the right way, how are you going to afford vet care if you need a c section for 2000.00 or will you be like every other BYB here and just let the chin either suffer and die or all of a sudden your story changes and "WOWIE I have that money saved up for a vet".

 

[ticklechin]

PNW was more famous for its maloccluders if you ask anyone here in CA who got bit by it, and there are ALOT of us who did, it was just one big secret at the time.

As far as dwindling population, how many chins do we have just here in the classifieds that don't sell along with every rescue that is full to the brim? How can you say that with a straight face?

I was stating my opinion and encouraging a new breeder in hopes to save a dwindling population. Besides, the warn button has never worked for me since my opinion tends to to be a little more open.

I don't know how you guys could possibly know what happens without actually breeding. Pictures and words can only convey so much. If you have someone that is concerned enough about quality to make a thread like this then obviously they care, they may just not be able to express it correctly. They may have awesome chinchillas and really suck at photography.


It is experience with the lines in any given area. Up until 10 years ago herds were very isolated along with their mutation strains. There are only a couple of ebony lines in the U.S. and all trace back to geographical areas - one was the PNW, famous for it's amazing size and tendency to malocclude/chew. Those came from CA back in the old days (25+ years ago), and a very tiny ratty line from Canada. Over the last decade those have been crossed, a dam will have a range of tiny 400g rats to 900g bulldog style chins in the same litter. For the most part the malo/chewing has been bred down to a 1 in 5 or 6 occurrence - and in some cases has disappeared completely with the influx of the Underhill chins herd in 2002, which also brought in a random true charcoal gene and the mat type black fur.

You see, for a long time there were only two "public" herds to buy from in the PNW, Pacific Northwest Chinchillas in Seattle and the Curtis Critter herd in ID. Linda Clark of cascade chinchillas joined in and Ronda bought the Curtis Critter herd and also animals from all three. Since she has been wholesaling for over a decade 95% of the stock in that area is from her. In the last five years or so a lot of new breeders popped up and shipped in unrelated east coast lines - but didn't stay in business long enough for them to really take hold, nor did they produce en masse.

Anyhow, violet/sapphire is a situation similar to above. Ronda buys a lot of herds so I've gotten a rare chance to see things most people don't. Often people only see their herd and a few other "closed" local herds plus what is brought to show - and all of the chinchillas share the same base ancestry. Closed meaning the rancher has a base stock and may bring in animals on occasion to outcross. When you do that your herd stays true to the type you are breeding for but all genetically related.

When you bring in entire herds from all over North America your "type" changes with the best (or most productive) of whatever it is you've brought in. You get to see true hybrid vigor at it's best, animals that may have been isolated for 60 years used to outcross produce some bizarre effects. A herd that has been around a long time takes on it's own set of genetics and each is very unique.

So yes, I do have an odd view of genetics. Mostly I keep to myself and breed my Tov Tan Whites with whatever catches my fancy. I help Ronda show her chins and get mad when she points out that the ugly P.O.S. I told her to get rid of two years ago produced a half dozen top show animals. It happens a LOT. The bigger and more varied the herd, the more potential for stuff like that. As someone who is just starting out you will experience something similar until you breed enough generations to stabilize "your" lines.

I prefer the old school style of breeding color to color to keep the colors clean. Standards are not always the answer, especially if you can't find the right one. To acquire that understanding you need to experience it.

I love genetics and talking about chins, anyone is welcome to PM me if you'd like to chat on the phone. If you'd like to visit Ronda's herd in OR let her know - it's an amazing learning experience. )

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

When I first started out 11 yrs ago I bought every color under the rainbow to produce more colors under the rainbow from a woman out west. Then I realized they were crap, half of them mallocluded, 1/4 furchewed, and the others were ratty and thinly furred. So most of them were euthanized. That was a waste of $5000 (took me forever to pay off my discover bill). Then I stepped up my game and bought several standards and a few mutes from top ranchers, took a couple years off because I had kids, hubby was allergic, and we moved into a smaller apt. As soon as we bought our house I got back into chins the right way and bought from ranchers again. I don't have many mutes-they just don't fancy me but the ones I do I am working on improving.

So congrats on your first ebony. Breeding her to a white should give you some nice casty whites, ebony whites, ebs, etc. You know-it may be a good idea for you to bring her to a show and show her. See how she does. You will learn alot from that and may be able to pair her up properly.

Good luck

 

[Caroline]

So, tell me, what is the average cost of a quality chin?

 

[chinsNdobermans]

I didn't start my breeding program off right. If nothing else, let me recommend that you get some good quality standards and go from there - when I first got into chins I was breeding standards, violets, white violets, beiges, tans, everything under the sun and even an ebony vc to a white. The result? Not much. My standard line - which I did take great care to keep as free of mutation as I could guarantee and worked hard to build - did very well (still flourishing) but nothing else did. I didn't have a mentor, and after I did finally start to attend shows, talking to breeders and ranchers at the shows, I knew where I'd gone wrong. We have since gotten out of most mutations - we just focus on standards, a few ebonies, and one pair that produces beige/pink white (because they're such a fantastic pair we can't let them go).

It's easier, and less expensive, to start off on the right foot the first go-round. Take your time... listen to advice... don't be too proud to take peoples' suggestions...

 

[Caroline]

Keeping in mind that Hayley is a Hetoro Ebony and Gracie is an extra dark Ebony.

Also who are the top breeders in the Pacific Northwest and Oregon?

 

[ticklechin]

Go to the MCBA website and check your show winners in your area.

 

[RDZCRanch]

Keeping in mind that Hayley is a Hetoro Ebony and Gracie is an extra dark Ebony.

Also who are the top breeders in the Pacific Northwest and Oregon?

Hetero or **** used in conjunction with ebony is an incorrect term. They are just referred to as their color phase. Hayley is a light to medium ebony and Gracie is a dark to extra dark ebony. We don't call them **** or hetero because more than one mutation is responsible for producing the ebony color. It's possible to have a homozygous or heterozygous ebony, but it's not an easy thing to prove and you don't know if they are hetero for one eb gene and **** for another.

The top breeders in the PNW right now would be Sarah Ralston and Elisa Johnstone.

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

Nice standards will run you anywhere from $150 to $300+ depending on where you go. You can also pick up retired breeders that are really nice for less but you need to know what you are looking for.

 

[Caroline]

Glad you think its so funny, I feel sorry for whatever animals you produce if you think overpopulation is not a issue. And if you can't afford a few extra bucks to get good quality animals and actually start out breeding the right way, how are you going to afford vet care if you need a c section for 2000.00 or will you be like every other BYB here and just let the chin either suffer and die or all of a sudden your story changes and "WOWIE I have that money saved up for a vet".

I have never said that overpopulation is not an issue so don't go twisting my words around and accusing me of things that are not true!!
I have had to pay expensive vet bills in the past so don't go accusing me of not making money available for that!! I spent 8 months nursing a seriously injured horse that nearly died, back to where he is ridable again. This entailed changing vet wrap and dressings every second day for the entire time, it entailed rehabbing him by handwalking him for months. So don't go accusing and twisting my words around!! Even the vet could not believe how dedicated I was to caring for him and said that most people would have long since given up and that was 3 months after he was injured! I continued for 5 more months!

 

[ticklechin]

Then why make a comment like this if money to you is not a issue. If you are heck bent on breeding why not just do it right and quit making excuses why you can't. You have several breeders in this thread telling you the mistakes they made and they wished they did it right the first time, why won't you listen to them and step up and do it right. If you have money avaliable then spend it and quit playing the money card on why you can't do it right.

And if you really want me to go all out and buy top of the line chins right from the start then you are welcome to purchase my beautiful ocean view lot on the Washington coast that I can't sell because of the economy. Or rent out my wonderful beach cabin for an extended period that hardly rents out anymore either That way I can spend more of my income on more expensive chins etc..and not on mortgages

 

[Spoof]

So, tell me, what is the average cost of a quality chin?

$25- $1500 depending on what you are looking for and how good you are at looking.

Also who are the top breeders in the Pacific Northwest and Oregon?

The top breeders aren't necessarily the public ones, as you're probably aware that most of the PNW chapter isn't online. Ronda has the largest herd followed by the Craners, then the two Lindas and probably lilchinchilla in Canada. There is a wholesale herd in Wenatchee too, not sure how many animals they have but at one point over 300. Each herd has it's specialties, some do standards and others do colors.

The best way to determine the "top" is to visit each and see what catches your eye. As you go from herd to herd you'll get a good idea of what to look for. )

That's pretty much it for WA, OR, ID and Vancouver 100+ animals. There are maybe a dozen smaller breeders like your mentor.

As far as dwindling population,

I was talking about the population of breeders who attend shows. Of course CA is swamped with chins - they originated there and the top 10 largest herds were there for almost a century.

 

[Caroline]

Then why make a comment like this if money to you is not a issue. If you are heck bent on breeding why not just do it right and quit making excuses why you can't. You have several breeders in this thread telling you the mistakes they made and they wished they did it right the first time, why won't you listen to them and step up and do it right. If you have money avaliable then spend it and quit playing the money card on why you can't do it right.

Because of the fact that I went to the MCBA site and I called chinchilla breeders, I purchased one from a breeder that was recommended to me whose name is on the list of local breeders at a price that seemed to be comparable to other breeders in the Pacific Northwest and other areas, and you guys are not satisfied with that. It appears to me that you won't be satisfied until I go and pay several hundred dollars more to purchase sight unseen a chinchilla, plus a few hundred for shipping. I have looked at the show results pages like suggested and the names of the majority of breeders who did very well are peppered all over both of my chins pedigree charts, including the some of the parents of them.

 

[menagerie]

Because of the fact that I went to the MCBA site and I called chinchilla breeders, I purchased one from a breeder that was recommended to me whose name is on the list of local breeders at a price that seemed to be comparable to other breeders in the Pacific Northwest and other areas, and you guys are not satisfied with that. It appears to me that you won't be satisfied until I go and pay several hundred dollars more to purchase sight unseen a chinchilla, plus a few hundred for shipping. I have looked at the show results pages like suggested and the names of the majority of breeders who did very well are peppered all over both of my chins pedigree charts, including the some of the parents of them.

Nobody is saying you should buy chins sight unseen. In fact, people are suggesting you go to a show and see what a quality chin looks like. The amount of money paid for a chin is not directly linked to the quality of a chin. I've seen people sell crappy animals for hundreds of dollars and some poor, uneducated person has paid that for an inferior animal. Just because a name appears on a list, does not mean that they have the best animals either.

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

The amount of money paid for a chin is not directly linked to the quality of a chin. I've seen people sell crappy animals for hundreds of dollars and some poor, uneducated person has paid that for an inferior animal. Just because a name appears on a list, does not mean that they have the best animals either.

Amen to that!