Photos of 1st Place Winning Chin Found On Craigslist

[AZChins]

I agree. Make sure that this is something you want to do. Oftentimes starting up breeding with all the worry and stresses of pregnancy, delivery and babies makes people get rid of their chins completely in a short time. Most of the time I tell people to just keep chins as happy, fun pets and don't get into breeding. Take it seriously because there are far too many people that don't seem to care about the chins.

 

[Andrea]

Sorry, I was offline when you responded to my post, but I wasn't trying to offend you, I was simply pointing out that most animals from a large ranch or breeding operation are tagged and it does not speak of quality just because an animal has a tag. I think you should show your chins yourself before you breed them. Learn how to groom your animals and enter them into a local show. Have your mentor help you. Research which type of genetics you want to experiment with and hold the offspring you produce back for showing to see if your breeding program is working to produce quality. Save funds for vet bills and supplies, and become a member of MCBA or ECBC. I noticed you said you might choose a violet carrier male...may I ask why? I will be the first to admit I hate seeing people jump into breeding but it seems that this is what you feel is right so I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Caroline]

Maybe I don't understand, but why is the chins pictures on CL? What did the chin win?

She was on Craigslist because she was being sold. She took first place in her class.last year and the pres. of the local MCBA seems to recall that it ws a fairly good sized class.

If your breeder told you she/he produces only 100% quality award winning chins and has never had a dud, they are a liar.

Never said that she did.

So you are going to start breeding after having a chin only a couple of months?

No, it will be after a year and under the tutelage of the President of the local MCBA chapter. She is being very supportive, kind and informative.

So what does having a show dog and riding a horse have to do with chinchillas? QUOTE]

"Additionally, you've got to consider what could happen when you choose to breed. Are you willing to chance losing either of your chins in childbirth or from complications?"



It has a lot to do with it. Having bred dogs I know that it breeding any kind of an animal is in no way a money maker venture, that if anything it can be very expensive. Breeding is not for the fainthearted and that is needs to be a true labour of love. I know that it requires a lot of time and research. I know what it is like to ship a German Shepherd half way across the continent from Canada to the States for breeding to a showdog that placed very high at the National levels, to spend a lot of money only to end up with no puppies and a female that required spaying. I know what it is like to breed the daughter of the number one in Canada mini longhaired dachshund 5 years in a row, only to get a phone call from the vet saying that mama and baby died during c-section, then to wake up in the morning to find second puppy dead and finally to find out that the last puppy was a monorchid. So yes, I have been around the block a few times when it comes to breeding animals and it is no walk in the park, is time consuming, can be expensive and can be very heartbreaking. I also know what it is like to open a magazine and find out that the dog that you delivered by yourself as a teenager is now one of the top in his breed in the country and is producing champion puppies.

Sorry, I was offline when you responded to my post, but I wasn't trying to offend you, I was simply pointing out that most animals from a large ranch or breeding operation are tagged and it does not speak of quality just because an animal has a tag. I think you should show your chins yourself before you breed them. Learn how to groom your animals and enter them into a local show. Have your mentor help you. Research which type of genetics you want to experiment with and hold the offspring you produce back for showing to see if your breeding program is working to produce quality. Save funds for vet bills and supplies, and become a member of MCBA or ECBC. I noticed you said you might choose a violet carrier male...may I ask why? I will be the first to admit I hate seeing people jump into breeding but it seems that this is what you feel is right so I wish you the best of luck.

Alls forgiven. As for showing, the President of the local MCBA, who is also my mentor, told me today that she was going to recommend me as a member of the chapter and that invited me to the upcoming show in the fall.

 

[Andrea]

Well, it sounds like you have all your ducks in a row so to say, and it is true that everyone has to start somewhere when they decide to breed. I personally never could breed with good conscience with any animal simply because of pet overpopulation, but I know some people feel differently and that's to be expected since we are all different...maybe consider taking in some rescues once you are breeding?

 

[Caroline]

I don't see anything wrong with Trio's post. Everything she said is true, I don't take that post as rude or offensive.

EDIT: Woman_in_Shoe, I'm happy that you've found a chin that you're so excited about, I think others probably feel the same way. People are just trying to point out that having an eartag and pedigree doesn't gurantee that the chin is of excellent quality. Perhaps your chin is, and perhaps she isn't. I hope you enjoy her regardless.

As I said before, when I found out who the breeder was, and that I know the breeder, I contacted her and she told me the history of this little girl. I am not about to just buy any chin because they have an eartag. I want one that is good quality. Before purchasing her I also contacted the breeder that I got Hayley from and she was pretty excited because she knows the bloodlines and that particular chin. She was very encouraging that I buy her too.

 

[Amphy64]

She's a cute girl, congrats on her. It's good that you're planning to go to shows, it's really best to do that first so you can judge for yourself a little more on a chin's qualities, your experience with dogs will have given you an idea of the ups and downs of breeding, but obviously won't tell you much about what makes a chinchilla show quality.

May I ask why you're considering pairing her to a mosaic vc? I'm not sure I can see the advantage of that with an extra dark eb, might it be better to instead pair her to a really top quality standard grey, especially as whites can tend to have fur that is a bit soft. Good standards are really essential for any herd, so I think looking for an quality adult male standard might be the best start, if you do want to breed.

 

[Caroline]

Well, it sounds like you have all your ducks in a row so to say, and it is true that everyone has to start somewhere when they decide to breed. I personally never could breed with good conscience with any animal simply because of pet overpopulation, but I know some people feel differently and that's to be expected since we are all different...maybe consider taking in some rescues once you are breeding?

I am not planning on breeding a lot of litters because of that reason, hence one of the reasons that I am not breeding Lipizzan horses. at least it does not cost as much money to house a few chinchillas as it does another horse. But I do enjoy being able to breed a few quality litters. As for rescues, well, owning a chinchilla can be a 20 year commitment and if I am going to have one that long then I would like to have one that is good quality.

 

[Andrea]

Amphy, I also asked about the VC and did not get an answer as of yet...

I must say I do not agree with the sentiment of "only having chins of good quality" especially since there is no guarantee the chins you breed will even produce "good quality" offspring. Also, you do not have to keep rescues for the entirety of their lives; you can re-home them. What are you trying to establish with your breeding program? What is your main motivation in your decision to breed?

 

[Caroline]

She's a cute girl, congrats on her. It's good that you're planning to go to shows, it's really best to do that first so you can judge for yourself a little more on a chin's qualities, your experience with dogs will have given you an idea of the ups and downs of breeding, but obviously won't tell you much about what makes a chinchilla show quality.

May I ask why you're considering pairing her to a mosaic vc? I'm not sure I can see the advantage of that with an extra dark eb, might it be better to instead pair her to a really top quality standard grey, especially as whites can tend to have fur that is a bit soft. Good standards are really essential for any herd, so I think looking for an quality adult male standard might be the best start, if you do want to breed.

My children would have liked to have started with a mosaic but the breeder didn't have any at the time. We fell in love with Hayley and decided to take her instead, with the plan of getting a mosaic later. Then I found Gracie on Craigslist and could not allow a chin of her quality to slip through the cracks. (incredible horse story behind the reason I feel that way http://www.kcrlipizzaners.com/lipizzan_rescue_24.html
Once again when my friend, Shannon Simpson, who was the buyer, sent me the photo of this horse I immediatly recognized that he looked like a very well bred Lipizzan and not a Saddlebred).

 

[RDZCRanch]

There is a huge difference between quality chinchillas and quality horses. You'll see the qualities when you attend a show. There is going to be one in WA in September and I hope to see you there. This should be one of the first things your mentors recommended when encouraging you to breed.

A 1st place chinchilla may be quality but it is not exactly a top quality prize. Since I don't believe you are familiar with the chinchilla show system this is how the placings work. There is ECBC and MCBA, your girl was shown at an MCBA show.

Chinchillas are divided into sections, then each section is divided into phases. The phases are then divided into four groups based on age and gender. Each of these four groups can have multiple 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and sometimes 5th places. Out of these 1st places, they choose 1A and 1B chinchillas. The 1A chinchillas go against each other for phase champion. Then the phase champions compete for section champion. The section champions then go against each other for best male and female of show. Then best male and female of show and their reserves go against each other for grand show champion and reserve grand show champion. Based on the MCBA system, a first is good, but far from the top.

ETA: I don't think anyone wants to discourage you from buying this girl, but to get you to think more critically about why you want to breed. Knowing why you want to breed will help you figure out what to look for in breeding animals. As has been mentioned, you do not want to breed multiple mutations together. Your best bet for mosaics would be a mosaic with a high quality standard.

 

[Caroline]

Amphy, I also asked about the VC and did not get an answer as of yet...

I must say I do not agree with the sentiment of "only having chins of good quality" especially since there is no guarantee the chins you breed will even produce "good quality" offspring. Also, you do not have to keep rescues for the entirety of their lives; you can re-home them. What are you trying to establish with your breeding program? What is your main motivation in your decision to breed?

Having bred enough litters I know that it is like a crapshoot. You can have two fantastic looking parents with excellent bloodlines who through wingout, airheaded progeny with horrible coats and conformation and you can also take parents of inferiour quality and get incredible offspring. It is all in the genetics.
Why a mosaic vc, because that is what we want, is there a problem with that?

 

[Chin_Parent]

I'm also interested in why you're wanting to breed, since you apparently have access to a good breeder in your area. If you're just looking for pets, why not purchase them (like I said before)? Breeding just for breeding's sake (or to create more pets for yourself) isn't a good reason in my opinion.

 

[Andrea]

Okay, so I looked at your other threads and I see that both your females are ebonies...I would recommend pairing them with a very nice dark standard male. Whites tend to be "cottony" unless they are TOP quality and even then, I think it is unwise to begin your breeding program with so many mutes since quality can be harder to achieve in offspring. VC is just unnecessary as you are throwing a recessive into the pool for no reason. You need to know what you are looking for and I agree with Tabitha, you can really only learn that from going to a show.

 

[Amphy64]

Why a mosaic vc, because that is what we want, is there a problem with that?

It's just not necessarily the best way to go - you can pair ebony to white, but you want to be careful when pairing mutation to mutation that both animals are really good quality, as standards are generally considered the strongest quality wise (doesn't mean all standards are good of course, or a mutation can't be better than one). A first place standard may actually be a better animal than a first place mutation chin. Ebony isn't a particularly strong mutation anyway, so if I were starting with them, I'd want to pair one to a standard to increase my chances of getting offspring of the quality I wanted. If you pair a mosaic vc (such an animal may not have the best coat, violets do tend to have weaker fur as well as whites tending to have soft fur) to an extra dark ebony, that's just quite lot of mutations to combine.

 

[Caroline]

I'm also interested in why you're wanting to breed, since you apparently have access to a good breeder in your area. If you're just looking for pets, why not purchase them (like I said before)? Breeding just for breeding's sake (or to create more pets for yourself) isn't a good reason in my opinion.

I guess I could ask the same thing. I am interested in why you all wanted to breed? Also did you have experience with breeding of any other animals before you started breeding chinchillas?

 

[Andrea]

Are you going to acknowledge your reasons for breeding and more specifically for wanting to breed so many mutes on your first try? I hope your mentor steers you clear of that path. I do not breed nor would I ever because I believe there enough high quality breeders who are really sacrificing a lot to ensure the future quality and health of chinchillas. I don't think I could really "add" anything to the breeding world, so I choose to be a pet owner. I also don't think I could have a clear conscience knowing I am adding to pet overpopulation. I understand plenty of people want to and will get into breeding, and that is okay, but please have GOOD reasons and good practice with a use of knowledge and mentoring.

 

[Chin_Parent]

I don't breed because my husband and I have decided to only rescue our pets, since there are plenty chins, cats, rats, and other pets that need homes and we're not interested in showing (I consider a quality chin a healthy chin, and that's the most important factor to me). Additionally, I don't want to take on the responsibilities and challenges that come with breeding.

Are you going to answer the question, or continue to deflect it onto others? I don't mean to seem rude (if it comes off like that I apologize), it's just that you've been asked several times and have yet to answer.

 

[Caroline]

I have not answered the question yet because I was preparing dinner and feeding my family. I am also trying to answer in such a way to avoid being interrogated and attacked again, because quite frankly this whole subject has become an inquisition. Why I want to breed is no ones business but my own and they may be very similar to why many of you started breeding, unless of course you started breeding to make money, which is not what I am interested in. I am not interested in doing chin rescue, I already have donated a lot of my time and resources to rescuing, caring for and socializing feral kittens. Much of what I have said has been twisted around and taken out of context.

 

[RDZCRanch]

When I started breeding, I was 12 and didn't have this forum or resources that you have. I wanted to breed to make pretty colors and enjoy the babies. I can tell you right now that you absolutely do not want to go down that path. Once I joined this forum and realized there are shows and standards, I went to a show. I realized what I was doing wrong and completely changed my herd. I breed for high quality animals and I would hate to see yet another breeder start on the wrong path. If you want to breed high quality animals, any reputable breeder will tell you that you have to have standards. Breeding multiple mutations is very risky and not something to start with immediately. Mentors should start you off with a high quality standard pair or a standard to mutation pair. That is how my mentors started me on the right path and how most quality breeders start on the right path.

Are you going to be attending the WA show in September? Since you are going to be waiting almost a year to breed your chinchillas, it wouldn't be very hard to attend a show first. It won't be very far from you. I will be driving 20 hours to attend that particular show and I do hope to see you there.

 

[Chin_Parent]

Why I want to breed is no ones business but my own.

I only pressed because I asked earlier today in the afternoon, and you didn't answer. It certainly is your business, but don't expect to post on a public forum and not have the reason pique the curiosity of the members here, and everyone has the right to express their opinion. The people on here are only trying to help and make sure that you make an informed decision, so you can avoid mistakes others have made in the past and produce quality chinchillas, if you choose to do so.

To expect others to state their reasoning for breeding, and yet post your intent and not accept the same questioning is absurd.