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I am not nor will I ever be a backyard breeder. I am simply a hobby breeder. I also believe that most of you are doing the chin population a disservice by selectively breeding.

Unless you have a qualified mentor who can help you make good breeding choices, you are a BYB.

Chinchilla selective breeding, unlike most purebred dog selective breeding, not only improves their size and coats, but focusses equally or even moreso on eliminating genetic diseases. When an animal- pet, breeder, or both- has a genetic disposition to a tooth issue that could kill it at 5 years old when its lifespan is normally 20 years, this is an issue for pet owners who must spend thousands of dollars fighting a losing battle, and for breeders who lose good animals too early in life. Breeders of quality animals breed for not only conformation, but also genetic factors. Good dog breeders do the same, culling animals with signs of dysplasia instead of breeding them. Most dog breeders do not make much profit from their animals either.

Do not assume that the animals are bred only for looks when you have not talked to reputable breeders on here who are striving to improve the species.
 
Caramiamine, you have struck a sore spot with me (not easy to do). Of all the posts I have ever read, it is possible that your last post is the most ignorant, uneducated, selfish, hard headed, and the most disrespectful attitude to the chinchillas as a species and the people who put great effort into bettering it I have ever seen. You clearly have no understanding of the chinchilla, how it came to be our pet or how the mutations you are trying to charge more money for even presented themselves to fall victim to your poor self serving practices. Not even the best mentor can teach someone who does not want to learn and apply what they have been told in a positive way. My first pet chinchillas were poorly bred and did have malo. I wish not even the chance of that on anyone as it is a great investment both emotionally and financially. I wish you would not either. There is more than the beauty of the animal to consider when breeding and hope that you will take a step back and reconsider your position before continuing to breed. No matter what one is breeding or doing in life I don't know why they wouldn't want to hold their head up and be proud that they did their best and didn't cause anyone else distraut to gain financial wealth for themselves. You are a BYB, but clearly show an interest in the chinchilla as a hobby. Only you can choose to it well, good, and right or not. I know what I hope for you to choose.
 
There is sooooo much I would love to say here, but it is a waste of time since it had all been said on another forum and obviously the OP hasn't heard a freaken think since she is here asking the same questions.

Just so you all know,,, the kits are standards..

I had offered to mentor and help her, but she has chosen to BYB.

Caramiamine again,
If ever you choose to breed for the right reasons, and that is to have as a main goal to improve the species, respect them and know that they don't lay gold eggs... I will be glad and be there for you. Until then I must respect myself and reverse my offer in mentoring you.

Oups! the last sentence should not have been included in this part. This was a copy and paste of my post on the other forum.
 
Furthermore, your vet defense is useless. All he/she can tell you is that your animal has no signs of problems at this point in time. No future guarantees.

That's not comparable to what you need.
 
Hi

I finally found this thread and had no idea that she was talking about me, I just came to talk to her when I saw her ad about a sapphire velvet chin that it was actually a standard, and I have hardly spoken to this lady, she asked me to help her out and be her mentor, and I know I don't have all the knowledge in the world, but I could not refuse in help out with the things I know at the moment, and that's it.
 
You are NOT a mentor, you NEED a mentor and have been mentored before you can even think of calling yourself that.
 
Kathy (Kathiva) on here is not a rancher. She is a hobby breeder.

Right!

You are NOT a mentor, you NEED a mentor and have been mentored before you can even think of calling yourself that.

I didn't call myself that, she said that, and she asked that, it doesn't really matter to me,

Kathy is not, nor should she be anyone's mentor. She has been advised several times to seek out a true mentor for herself and has refused, therefore classifying herself as a backyard breeder.

Obviously you feel you are completely justified in putting a male and female together to make babies. I did not know playing with animals' lives had become a right for people and not a privilege to be strongly considered, weighed and researched. It is not just quality anyone here is worried about. What about health problems? You can't look at two chinchillas and say they won't produce unhealthy offspring or don't have genetic faults that will culminate in their offspring. You can't even say that they don't carry the genes for malocclusion or HAVE malocclusion themselves. Breeding for pet is just an excuse to breed low quality chins to sell. The only reason to do this is pure and simple greed. Seeing $$ when thinking of what they can pop out at little to no work on your part.


I am not a backyard breeder, all my chins have full pedigrees and come from very good breeders and some of them have already won awards, and with a lot of work and effort I did my best to be able to save money to purchase a few animals of better quality than the ones I used to have, I changed quite a few breeders and reduced and renewed them in order to produce for better quality animals, I still have a lot of work to do anyways, and I don't consider myself having all grand show champion chins, but I have tried to do my best with all the tools and resources that are available, and especially since in Canada it is quite hard to find good quality animals and have to bring them from the US.

I have not refused to get a mentor, I just haven't had a chance to do it, I do have plans for my chins however, and go to shows, etc. but that would be when I am ready to do so, even if it could take me a while to go to a show, I will do it.
 
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Hi

I finally found this thread and had no idea that she was talking about me, I just came to talk to her when I saw her ad about a sapphire velvet chin that it was actually a standard, and I have hardly spoken to this lady, she asked me to help her out and be her mentor, and I know I don't have all the knowledge in the world, but I could not refuse in help out with the things I know at the moment, and that's it.

Can you clarify one thing? I don't know you so don't have an opinion of you. Are you encouraging/ supporting this person's decision to breed these animals? Or do you mean to say she wanted info on babies already born and that's all?

If she does see you as a mentor, please help her see reason.
 
I haven't really been able to talk to her that much, just a couple e-mails that I sent her about the color of her kits and the colors of TOV sapphires and sapphires, to help her see how different they are to standards.

Then she asked me can you be my mentor, and I said that I would be willing to help, that she could let me know if she has any questions, then she asked me something about what to do for soft poos, and I replied, and then I haven't been able to speak to her for maybe 2 or 4 days.

So I haven't really been able to ask her, or talk about the kind of chins that she has, or if her chins are good for breeding, she hasn't really been able to tell me where exactly her chins come from, and I haven't been able to tell her anything about it either, so really, haven't gotten started on anything, and I haven't supported anything either.

I just thought that I could probably help in a few things if I could, because I know that I don't know everything, and if there was anything that I didn't know, I would just tell her, you know, I don't know anything about this topic, and that would be it, and see if there could maybe be someone else that could answer any other questions that I don't have an answer for.
 
Caramiamine, please let me give you my perspective as someone who is considering breeding, and just trying to learn as much as possible at the moment. Chins are not the same as cats and dogs (actually, I largely disagree with what you are saying about cats, many pedigree cat breeds are very robust and long-lived. Responsible dog breeders are also more careful than you are suggesting). In talking to chin breeders, I have been extremely impressed with how much they care for the health of their animals, and how proactive they are about reducing the occurrence of malo as much as possible - I have found chin breeders as a group tend to be more conscientious in this regard than the breeders of certain other types of animals. Anyone who will pull a line they have worked hard to develop from breeding due to maloclussion must care very much about breeding healthy animals. I've had three rabbits with malo, and it is terrible, it is horrible, and utterly heartbreaking. I could never take risks with it, and I think if you had experienced it, you would understand why. Your vet cannot tell you if your chins will develop malo, so a (at least five generation) pedigree isn't just a pretty piece of paper, it tells you if your animals are from good lines, bred by people who care about health. There are never any guarantees, so it is better to take as few risks as possible.
I've also found chin breeders are extremely careful about how they use line breeding in their herds, and many will not inbreed - these practices I think occur more with dogs. Here in the UK we have many breeders who will import chins (at great expense), which also helps to keep our lines genetically diverse.

There are plenty of reasons to go to shows even if you don't currently have any chins to enter, it's a great opportunity to talk to experienced breeders, not just to learn about showing, but to learn about good husbandry practices and health. Chin societies' newsletters also include husbandry articles, not just information on showing and results. I feel you should still be aware of show qualities though, it doesn't matter if you just want to hobby breed. I'm personally not so fond of the extremely 'brevi-type' head sometimes seen in show chins, as I prefer them to be a little more moderate, with a slightly longer nose, and bigger eyes, but that doesn't mean I think I can decide for myself what to breed for, with no reference to the qualities breeders have worked hard to develop. The chinchilla's dense, plush coat is one of the most distinctive features of the species, so of course breeders selectively breed for strong, silky fur and density, why wouldn't you want to preserve and develop that quality? It's important when it comes to finding homes for babies, too, pet owners want a nice looking animal. I know from my own chin's breeder that it can be very difficult to find suitable homes for chins, and he is an experienced breeder who breeds to show standards, and for health and temperament. If I am going to buy a chin, I will go to someone like this, not someone who doesn't know the background of their animals. The chin's health aside, as it isn't easy to find good homes, why would you want to deprive yourself of those advantages when trying to sell chins, as there are already no shortage of good and not so good quality chins available? You don't want your babies to go to someone who will not care for them correctly, right?

I feel there is a lot one should know before breeding, I never want to be in a situation I do not know how to handle purely because I didn't spend the time to learn enough. I cannot know everything, nor gain years of experience overnight, so the best thing to do is learn from the people who do have that experience, and ask questions when needed. To do otherwise would be a failure of responsibility to the animals. Please consider this.
 
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