I need help!!!

[Tagna]

To my knowledge there are very few quality breeders in the province of Quebec. I can count them on one hand and of those few, I doubt any of them would have said they were males if one was a female.

It would be interesting to know what breeder sold them to your daughter.

 

[Encantadora]

All I will say is PlEASE stop producing more chins. Take the time to grow, learn, and be mentored. Attend shows. In the meantime, enjoy your pet chins.

The direction you're headed is not as a reputable breeder that will be respected. And it's a slippery, dangerous slope.

 

[Claire D]

In response to your statement tunes that this litter was a breed back. It wasn't a breedback. The mother was separated from the male for 2 months before she got pregnant again. As for making money. Yes I hope to make a little money on the babies but certainly nothing to live on. Just enough so that I can keep providing them the best food and toys and veterinary care. I have done my homework as far as breedbacks. As for their pedigree, as I mentioned earlier, I'm going to have to make some calls and get the information that my daughter neglected to get from the breeder she got them from. Then I'll have a better idea of what I'm breeding and what I can offer people in terms of their pets. And yes I'm breeding them to be pets only. thank you for all of your help. I was just hoping I could get some answers without having to track the breeder in question and have him go over his logs. Yes I do keep logs also. Again thank you.

I'm not going to address everything else in this thread because I think it is pointless TBH - you're going to keep breeding these chins, regardless of what anyone says, (make money? BWAHAHAHA!) even though you know nothing about them (from a genetics, history point of view) so I'll not waste my fingers......

However, if you are going back to the breeder then you need to consider this: The breeder supposedly mis-sexed his animals .... you're going to go & ask him to provide pedigrees for chins that he mis-sexed so his records will be wrong anyway. Plus, he may not be willing to provide you with pedigrees retrospectively - he does not know for a fact that these are the same animals he sold you ....... just something to think about.

 

[3CsMommy]

This is only her second litter in a year. How many should she have a year?

NONE. You don't have pedigrees or health records on their sires/dams. You can't recognize colors. You don't even know what colors are possible out of what you're breeding. You're not prepared for it, and the dam needs a break after that many kits.

If you want to get into breeding chinchillas (which is never for fun and profit), you need to stop breeding these two and get them judged and seen by a vet at the very minimum. "Anything worth doing is worth doing right," and so far, you're not off to a healthy start for the chins.

Luckily, as blunt as we are, you've come to a good place to figure out how to change your practices and decide if breeding really is a good idea.

 

[Magic_FROST]

Caramiamine-

Why wait until AFTER this second litter to think about maybe going back to this supposed high-quality breeder and doing an investigation as to what genetics are in both these chins?

Do you even know the color of mom and dad? No. Let alone the kits. Do you know without a shadow of a doubt that these two arent related? NO!!!

The only way to rectify this is to stop digging the proverbial hole in which you are in.

You want to breed? Great! Get a mentor. Find out all you can (both good and bad first) before you then purchase a high quality female already bred or really shell out the $ for a pair.

Then you can hold your head up high and be proud. And then you wont need to ask "What color are my chins?" because you'll know--well beforehand.

 

[tati121]

In response to your statement tunes that this litter was a breed back. It wasn't a breedback. The mother was separated from the male for 2 months before she got pregnant again. As for making money. Yes I hope to make a little money on the babies but certainly nothing to live on. Just enough so that I can keep providing them the best food and toys and veterinary care. I have done my homework as far as breedbacks. As for their pedigree, as I mentioned earlier, I'm going to have to make some calls and get the information that my daughter neglected to get from the breeder she got them from. Then I'll have a better idea of what I'm breeding and what I can offer people in terms of their pets. And yes I'm breeding them to be pets only. thank you for all of your help. I was just hoping I could get some answers without having to track the breeder in question and have him go over his logs. Yes I do keep logs also. Again thank you.

To those in the chinchilla community, breeding is done to better the species. One purchases high quality breeding stock, evaluates them for their strengths and weaknesses and continues the pairing from there. By doing so, the outcome will be animals that will strengthen the species as whole. Culling your herd to make space for new lines and repeating the aforementioned evaluation process; this is what breeding IS.

To those who haven't immersed themselves in said chinchilla community view breeding as a male and a female coming together to have babies. Is this what happens in the wild? Yes. Are we in the wild? No! There are TONS of chinchillas sitting in rescues waiting for their forever homes. By increasing the unwanted pet population by merely striving for "pet quality" chinchillas, you're doing a disservice to the species, and to those people who have given their blood, sweat and tears to improve the chinchilla population.

If you want to breed then that's fine. Just stick around, read everything you can get your hands on from the many experienced and knowledgeable breeders on this site and keep your mind and ears open! You will learn the good, the bad, the ugly and certainly the pretty that is involved in breeding. But by diving in head first without knowing how to swim and being stubborn enough to refuse help, then you can only go downhill from there.

 

[fanofdmb84]

I agree with what Claire mentioned...if the "reputable breeder" these animals came from can't even tell boys from girls, I wouldn't trust that they are even remotely breeding-quality chinchillas.

 

[Caramiamine]

It was not the breeder who sexed them wrong. My daughter picked them by colour and she checked them out herself. Her being a new nurse and thinking that she knows everything, decided she could do the sexing herself and only paid the breeder for what she wanted. "Because it was a pretty colour". Now I have the pair and I am not nor will I ever breed for show. I live in Canada and unfortunately we have to go to the States for the shows. I have a mentor from a Canadian ranch and am seeking her advice on everything I do from now on. As far as contacting the breeder you're probably right, I can't prove they're his/her chins. I also never said that my daughter bought them from a breeder in Quebec as we live on the Ontario border quite literally within walking distance. I however, am in Quebec myself. My mentor is Kathy from Diamondchinchillas.webs.com . As for making money. I never said that I was going to make enough to live on but would like enough to get them nicer cages and toys and food etc including vet bills when needed. And if I need to have my male castrated to stop them from breeding I will. I've also learned a great deal about colour identification since I first posted. Thank you for the help.

 

[chincinnati]

I am glad you are working with a mentor. I am sure she will help you figure out if breeding is right for you and help you weigh the good and the bad (wich there is alot of, regardless of how big or small your herd is). I myself don't breed for money, but do try to break even as much as I can. I make and sell cages as well as supplies here and there to help reach my goal. There really is no money in the animals alone, it is a labor of love.
I also want to say that I love the Shoots. I have never been treated wrongly or rude by them, not even at a show. Ralph was busy one time while he was grooming so I just sat down next to him and helped. He was actually appreciative. During another show we spoke many times and I learned alot from his comments. I visited with them recently and though they no longer have their herd they are more than willing to help wherever they can. I don't like to hear that their name is being spoken of so negatively. I would hate for anyone to pass up the opportunity to speak with either one of them because they assume from reading such experiences of others that they will just be treated in a rude manner. They have much knowledge and wisdom to pass along and have never seen them anything but willing to pass it along (yes Ralph dislikes ebs, but he happily helped me with them and still will give me his comments on one when I ask). In all, I have never been treated as the small hobby breeder I am by any of the "big" ranchers. Ever. lol, this is probably the longest post I have ever made. I will go away and be quiet now : )

 

[Tagna]

I have a mentor from a Canadian ranch and am seeking her advice on everything I do from now on. My mentor is Kathy from Diamondchinchillas.webs.com

Kathy (Kathiva) on here is not a rancher. She is a hobby breeder.

 

[saphire]

There is sooooo much I would love to say here, but it is a waste of time since it had all been said on another forum and obviously the OP hasn't heard a freaken think since she is here asking the same questions.

Just so you all know,,, the kits are standards..

I had offered to mentor and help her, but she has chosen to BYB.

Caramiamine again,
If ever you choose to breed for the right reasons, and that is to have as a main goal to improve the species, respect them and know that they don't lay gold eggs... I will be glad and be there for you. Until then I must respect myself and reverse my offer in mentoring you.

 

[RDZCRanch]

My mentor is Kathy from Diamondchinchillas.webs.com . As for making money. I never said that I was going to make enough to live on but would like enough to get them nicer cages and toys and food etc including vet bills when needed. And if I need to have my male castrated to stop them from breeding I will. I've also learned a great deal about colour identification since I first posted. Thank you for the help.

Kathy is not, nor should she be anyone's mentor. She has been advised several times to seek out a true mentor for herself and has refused, therefore classifying herself as a backyard breeder.

Obviously you feel you are completely justified in putting a male and female together to make babies. I did not know playing with animals' lives had become a right for people and not a privilege to be strongly considered, weighed and researched. It is not just quality anyone here is worried about. What about health problems? You can't look at two chinchillas and say they won't produce unhealthy offspring or don't have genetic faults that will culminate in their offspring. You can't even say that they don't carry the genes for malocclusion or HAVE malocclusion themselves. Breeding for pet is just an excuse to breed low quality chins to sell. The only reason to do this is pure and simple greed. Seeing $$ when thinking of what they can pop out at little to no work on your part.

 

[Tagna]

I actually posted this a couple of days ago and it's the OP's kijiji ad:

http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showpost.php?p=242165&postcount=350

 

[ticklechin]

Kathiva needs to learn what a quality chin looks like before she even thinks about being a mentor, she has never been to a show, has not had her chins looked at in person by someone respected to know what quality is and has been told many times she is a BYB because she does not listen. Just because the pop up ad on this forum says she breeds show quality chins, that is what is made up in her mind and not reality.

 

[Caramiamine]

I am not nor will I ever be a backyard breeder. I am simply a hobby breeder. I also believe that most of you are doing the chin population a disservice by selectively breeding. We've all seen what selective breeding does in other animals and it may be pretty, but far from healthy and quality. The bulldog as case in point and I'm not speaking of the American bulldog either. I am striving to produce the best healthy chins possible and I truly believe that the two chins that I have are very healthy and of good quality. My vet also seems to agree. Yes Kathy is my mentor as she contacted me offering help and I'm very grateful to her. I don't have to pay money to go to shows and win ribbons just to show that my chins are quality. Ask yourself this question: When you want a good healthy dog or cat the last thing you want to do is get a pure breed animal as they tend to have so many health issues bred into them so that people could get them to look exactly as they wanted them to. No rather if you want a quality pet dog or cat you go for the ordinary house cat or the mixed breed mutt and they will live the longest and healthiest. I'm not saying that they won't have health problems as every animal does from time to time but they won't be as bad as the pure breeds that have to be put down earlier in their lives do to hip displasia or breathing problems due to a flat face etc. I am breeding quality chins and I don't need their pedigree to produce strong and healthy babies that will grow up to live long healthy lives. Now you still may consider me to be a byb, but think about what I've said and your own experiences with your chinchillas and tell me that they're perfect. You're doing more harm than good to the chinchillas by selective breeding.

 

[Tagna]

I am sure all the owners of chins with Malo will disagree with you.

You are breeding chins of unknown background that aren't breeding quality. That makes you a byb in the chin community. Your lack of basic chin knowledge is also very scary.

 

[Encantadora]

By the way, you don't attend shows to prance around with trophies. You go to see what is going on in the world of breeding by those who are well respected. And learn. And allow your animals to be critiqued for a nominal entry fee.

Do you HAVE to show the animals you breed? I don't believe so. But I DO agree that you better get them from a ranch that does and understands quality and can get you started right. Pedigrees are not an option. They are the safe and right thing to do.

Without this, you are a byb no matter what you try to portray.

 

[Encantadora]

Your argument about dogs gave me a good laugh. Breeding the two cannot be compared. The bulldog was bred to be much different than his wild ancestors.

Chins are not being selectively bred for underbites, flat noses, and stubby legs.

And the biggest reason breeds like this have issues is because... Wait for it... People who went into it for the money began breeding dogs that weren't fit for it! Hmm.

 

[Sycamore Chins]

Reputable dog breeders are breeding for healthier animals. That why they have OFA certification and all kinds of other things.
Just like reputable chinchilla breeders are breeding for healthier animals. We are weeding out malocclusion while trying to attain a high standard of quality in our animals. Yes quality is slightly subjective, but it has been mostly agreed upon by people in the industry.
Chinchilla breeders are not the same as dog breeders. Chinchillas don't have 'breeds' - and no one is trying to change their body shape/function so drastically as to create different breeds.

 

[Siany]

I dont think i would consider even breeding my chins, just the fact that i dont have that kind of knoledge. I can understand how accidents happen and i can understand you wanting to know your kits colours but planning to breed again and again when you when you know nothing at all about these chins is irrisponsible as a pet owner. You dont even understand that by doing this you are putting these poor chins at risk.