Esperanza and Maia

[Mikayla]

That' who I'm waiting for a call back on

That weren't chin vets but in my town vets who said it would be fine. But that was just in general not just about chins.

 

[Stackie]

That weren't chin vets but in my town vets who said it would be fine. But that was just in general not just about chins.

Ok, I still would like to know their names. Perhaps if I contacted one of them they could explain to me their reasoning, or I could have the vet I work for contact them and see what they have to say to him...

 

[Laurie]

Abigail was given Baytril for a URI when I stressed to the vet I thought she was pregnant. The vet said she could not feel any individual babies. Two days after Abigail's last baytril dose she gave birth to 3 premature babies. They were fully formed but most definitely premature. I personally believe it's the only thing that saved Abigail's life as if these kits got any bigger I don't think she would have been able to deliver them.

Baytril is definitely the medicine you want for a serious infection but it will definitely not do any good in a small animal nursing from a mother who has it in her system or to a pregnant chin

 

[Mikayla]

Laurie- I'm gonna talk to the vet soon I'll probably end up pulling her tomorrow. Thanks.

Stackie- I hate to sound rude but sometimes people on here don't understand boundaries and I don't feel comfortable giving out their personal info. Not saying you, but sometimes people don't, and I don't want to give out their info unless it is for praise. I wouldn't love that if it was me, so I just don't want to put them up for criticism.

 

[ErinsChins]

Mikayla, I think the members here deserve to know who to avoid. If they are giving out misinformation then they should be known...

 

[Sycamore Chins]

Okay, so from the Plumbs Veterinary Drug Handbook (which every vet pretty much carries in their pocket or has on a string attached to their lab coat) directly, it says:
"...because of the risks of cartilage abnormalities in young animals, the fluoroquinolones are not generally recommended for use during pregnancy unless the benefits of therapy clearly outweigh the risks." This is in application to dogs.

I will see if I can get a hold of the Exotic Animal Formulary (i'm banking on winning it in a raffle at the end of the year, but may be able to access it online)

ETA (because Alicyn needs to learn to read down further):
In the Drug handbook it says:
Chinchillas, gerbils, guinea pigs, etc..."dosage". Then "Do not use in young animals. (Adamcak and Otten 2000)"

Now let's see if I can get a hold of that publication.

Whelp, can't access the publication online (yet). Think I have to jump through a bunch of hoops, or go to the library at school. 2 exams and a quiz this week, so i'll put it on my list of things to do during spring break

-please take our thoughts into consideration, hand feeding the baby will be good for both the kit and the mom. Mom can concentrate on healing and not devoting a large amount of her energy to making milk, and the baby will avoid unnecessary exposure to harsh antibiotics.

 

[Mikayla]

I use them for my dogs, they do not normally see exotics, I just asked about baytril in general But after the callback from Dr. Fitzgerald I'll probably start handfeeding.

Also, when she gets off baytril will Maia be able to go back with her?

 

[xcdnchinx]

I hope mom and baby are getting better. *crosses fingers*

 

[Ash]

Laurie- I'm gonna talk to the vet soon I'll probably end up pulling her tomorrow. Thanks.

Stackie- I hate to sound rude but sometimes people on here don't understand boundaries and I don't feel comfortable giving out their personal info. Not saying you, but sometimes people don't, and I don't want to give out their info unless it is for praise. I wouldn't love that if it was me, so I just don't want to put them up for criticism.

They are veterinarians, therefore you're not giving away any personal information, it is all public information. No one wants to criticize them, call them up and say they are idiots, people want to validate their claims or simply just avoid them. It's no different then me saying to avoid the veterinarian that "sees" chinchillas in Oxford, PA because they were complete idiots when it came to my chin 4 years ago.

Why are you so unwilling to believe those with experience who see and deal with chin issues day in and out, over those who see a chinchilla MAYBE a handful of times a year, if that? Or is it you just don't want to handfeed and really don't care about the well-being of Maia? It seems like this whole situation has been about what's convenient for you, anyway, over what's best for the chins. I'm sorry if that sounds rude, but it's the impression I get.

 

[momenteller]

Ash-- she just said she's going to pull her from mom and start handfeeding.

 

[Ash]

I don't care, she had to wait for ONE vet to tell her what a ton of other people have already been telling her? It's stupid. Why come here asking for advice if you don't plan on taking it unless you find a vet willing to back it up?

 

[VolunteerChin22]

She can go back in but her milk will likely dry up - you will still have to handfeed even though she's off the antibiotics. Do you not know how to hand feed? Are you scared to do it? Can you not find the receipe or goats milk? I am struggling to understand why you need so much reassurance that you should handfeed? and again you are fixated on this weight issue - So bone and joint deformities are ok as long as the chin weighs the same? I am missing how debating this has been in Maia's best interest - I'm starting to agree with Ash - How many times does it have to be demonstrated to you that this could pose health risks? It's not only the opinion of serveral vets, experienced ranchers and breeders, but its clearly published in the book Alycin referenced...:banghead:

Mikayla you are going to need to start trusting people on this forum - if we think you need a vet we will tell you, if you need help we will help you to the best of our ability and knowledge, if you are doing something wrong we will tell you - we are here for the chinchilla's best interest.

ETA she said "probably" not that she will...

 

[Mikayla]

I will, I just have state testing tomorrow and all. Gosh, I hate those! I just know that he is experienced with chins, and I want his opinion on top of the vet who performed the surgery, and everyone else's.

 

[Ash]

So you're waiting until after testing is over and it's convenient for you to handfeed her? That's not how breeding works, Mikayla. You have to be willing and able to handfeed at the drop of a hat, not wait until it fits into your schedule because of a/b/c events. I'm 6 months pregnant and work full time on top of having animals in breeding. If I were to have a kit that needed handfeeding, I'd have to do it immediately, not put it off until it's a good time for me to do it. There are other members who handfeed multiple kits and/or adults at a time on top of their full time jobs and families.

If you're not willing to handfeed regardless of everything that's going on around you, then you need to not be breeding. I understand you need rest, etc, for the testing, I wasn't in school all that long ago, but when you bring these animals into your life and take on the responsibility to raise and breed them, they become a first priority. If they can't be that for you, then you need to rehome them. I'm not being harsh, it's the truth.

And frankly, you need to be willing to take the advice of the people on this forum who have done this day in and day out for years over a vet who isn't all that experienced. Not wait around for someone else to validate what's been said on here. Dawn, Christy, Peggy, etc, have much more experience than most any vet you'll come across. If you're not willing to listen to their expertise, then stop asking for it, because when you ask for it then refuse to listen, it just aggravates everyone.

 

[starleomach]

I had a very chinchila knoledgable vet inject one of my top females with a penicillin without asking me, killing her. She was in for a cut that looked infected. Vets are not the end all be all they learn chinchillas in 1 day at vet school, lumped in with rabbits, gerbils and GPs. As for the milk everything momma injests goes right to the baby through the milk. You shouldn't wait to pull her. there is no only a little bit getting to the baby. this is true for any species even humans everything Mom gets affects the baby.

And Ash is right as a breeder you need to drop everything for the animals. I wasback to handfeedinf kits and cleaning cages as soon as I walked back through the door after having my baby. it is the choice you make when you decide to breed, not convience for you. My husband had to leave me for a bit during my labor to take care of the chinchillas (upon my insistance) when my water broke I called the doc, then made sure chinchillas and the dog were good for the night. this is the life of a breeder.

not to be rude but you are comin off as the next up and coming BYB I am sure that I am not the only one who keeps a list....

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

not to be rude but you are comin off as the next up and coming BYB I am sure that I am not the only one who keeps a list....

I was thinking the same thing. When Swallowtail went for her emergency c-section hubby put her on SMZ because of the risks of baytril to the kit.

I hope, for the sake of your future customers, you will be upfront and honest when it comes to selling kits that have been affected by things like these. I certainly wouldn't want to buy a kit knowing there are potential for health problems down the road.

 

[greychins]

So you're waiting until after testing is over and it's convenient for you to handfeed her? That's not how breeding works, Mikayla. You have to be willing and able to handfeed at the drop of a hat, not wait until it fits into your schedule because of a/b/c events. .

:clap: When I had that chin die last year of pregnancy complications, I was already hand-feeding another chinchilla's 3 kits (the mom didn't get in milk). When the mother died, I had three more. That's six kits... and those two months+ were the two months prior to my taking the bar exam. I had test prep for 7 hours a day, on top of working, and studying in the free time. I found time to handfeed, and I won't say it was "easy" to find time in there to do it, but you can't just put it off until "after testing" or "after class." You don't find time, you need to MAKE time. On my lunch break for the bar exam, both days, I was running home to feed the kits. And then running back to take the afternoon portion of the test. I thought nothing of it, because that's the responsibility that comes with breeding. You have to be ready at any moment to do what needs to be done.

 

[Annieo]

Mikayla,

You keep on rollin' on your crazy train girl! I don't think I've known anyone to ignore such great advice before but hey, even Charlie Sheen is entitled to his own perspective, however misguided…it's America. Sounds like your sources are way more informed than the rest of this board. Hallelujah!

I hope your chins have a long and healthy life.

 

[Claire D]

FWIW The Exotic Animal Formulary (3rd Edition) notes the following under rodents (including chinchillas) & Enrofloxacin: "May cause arthropathies in young."
I'll have a proper look later when I get home.

 

[ticklechin]

I had a vet who was new at the practice I go to try to RX Bicillin for a eye infection that would not heal, vets screw up just like everyone else, you are lucky to have a backup place to go to to run by treatment protocols.

You breed, you hand feed kits 24/7 every two hours when needed. If not they die. If they die you make more. That is back yard breeding and that is what you are presenting to us, a callous attitude towards the lives you are in charge of.