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I don't breed but have been to a couple of shows for fun and for chin shopping. There will be plenty of beautiful, breeding quality animals at the show. I found the prices to be really reasonable and I am pretty sure that I remember the animals being shown had prices on them before they were judged at one of the shows so even some first place animals were really reasonably priced.
 
those are claim shows. while you can get really nice chins at good prices at a claim show, do not expect any breeder to offer their best there. if it is not an optional claim show we just don't show our best there.

I don't breed but have been to a couple of shows for fun and for chin shopping. There will be plenty of beautiful, breeding quality animals at the show. I found the prices to be really reasonable and I am pretty sure that I remember the animals being shown had prices on them before they were judged at one of the shows so even some first place animals were really reasonably priced.
 
those are claim shows. while you can get really nice chins at good prices at a claim show, do not expect any breeder to offer their best there. if it is not an optional claim show we just don't show our best there.
Understood. My point was you can get some reasonably priced great animals, maybe not "best of the best" but nice animals none-the-less and these wanna-be breeders may not have realized that.
 
If the claiming shows are at the end of the show season(after nat'ls) many times you can pic up some very nice chins that weren't available ,or offered for sale at earlier shows. Shows Like the claiming show In Crawford Colo. That the Colo. west ECBC branch has every year ,has awesome quality animals for very reasonable prices. Usually after nat'l shows Breeders will then decide who goes into breeding in their herd and who doesn't out of all the chins they have been holding to evaluating for breeding. I have picked up 1st place ECBC nat'l regestered chins, as well as 1a's from MCBA nat'ls as well as other top quality chins from this claiming show. They were the very best that the ranchers had that didn't make the cut to go into breeding in their own herd. But had not been for sale earlier in the year or at other shows until the final decisions were made after nat'ls as who went into breeding and who didn't.
And has already been said by others, Breeders will always keep their best for their own herd, And will not offer them for sale regardless, of personal visit to the ranch,santioned show or claiming show.
 
When I contacted one of the large well known ranchers about purchasing chins, I asked them for the best they had to offer regardless of price. I was very specific in the qualities I was looking for i.e. large, dark standards, very good fur density, blocky, ect. The investment amount was well worth it. I am very pleased with the animals I received and would not consider them second rate at all, instead they are outstanding. Just because a breeder is selling an animal doesn't mean its sub-standard. Yes they keep their favorites but sometimes they have all they need of "the best" and are willing to part with a few for a price. If you know what you are looking for when you purchase a chin it makes all the difference in the world. That is why good mentors are so crucial. They can save the beginner a lot of heartache, money and lost time in the long run.
 
When I contacted one of the large well known ranchers about purchasing chins, I asked them for the best they had to offer regardless of price. I was very specific in the qualities I was looking for i.e. large, dark standards, very good fur density, blocky, ect. The investment amount was well worth it. I am very pleased with the animals I received and would not consider them second rate at all, instead they are outstanding. Just because a breeder is selling an animal doesn't mean its sub-standard. Yes they keep their favorites but sometimes they have all they need of "the best" and are willing to part with a few for a price. If you know what you are looking for when you purchase a chin it makes all the difference in the world. That is why good mentors are so crucial. They can save the beginner a lot of heartache, money and lost time in the long run.

there is only one way to get the best animals and that is to buy the here. Remember the best looking my not be the best breeders and a good rancher knows that and knowswho to use and who to sell
 
A good rule of thumb and one we have followed for 40 years is don't buy a breeder sight unseen. Look at the animal before you buy it to breed and if it doesn't fit your program, then don't buy it. Am i understanding you right Jeff, tho only way to get a good animal is to buy it here? We are coming up on our ECBC National Show. We have already decided on who we will keep in our breeding program and who will be for sale. We don't always keep the very top animals, we keep who fits back into our breeding program best. I'm sure most ranchers/breeders do the same thing. The animals that we and other exhibitors will sell at the show will still be some really good chins. My advice is still to go to shows and meetings and visit ranches, talk to breeders and ranchers and look at their animals and make your own decisions.
 
I think Jeff meant "buy the herd," that was my interpretation at least.
 
I'm going to guess Jeff doesn't mean here, as in the forum, but his fingers got ahead of his brain. (Must be a Michigan thing. Ever see Becky type??? oye)

*snort*
 
OOOH, that wasn't nice! Poor Becky. I was just trying to clarify what he meant, not be a smart ***. Can I say that on here? :thinking:
 
I'm going to guess Jeff doesn't mean here, as in the forum, but his fingers got ahead of his brain. (Must be a Michigan thing. Ever see Becky type??? oye)

*snort*

Its hard to type with frozen fingers.. my typing got much better when I moved from Michigan to FL.. LOL :hot:
 
Yes, thanks to those of you who corrected my typo, it was actually due to my post being made on the iPhone too early in the morning, guess that is an equation for disaster.

To expand on what I said now that I am on a full size keyboard:

I feel and have been told many times you have to buy the entire herd to get the best breeding stock. That is the perk of being the breeder, the best animals go back into your herd. And by best animals I mean best breeding stock, aka best genotype, which is not always the same as best phenotype. For example I was at a state show once where the Grand Show was sold. He was a very nice looking animal and was owned by a breeder who does not normally sell animals off the top of the table. Later that day I heard the breeder of the animal comment to a friend that the animal in question was a freak, who popped out of two of his worst lines and would never produce anything good in breeding. So the person who bought that animal that day may have thought they got the good stuff, and did get the best phenotype, but the genotype of the animal was questionable at best, and when it comes to breeding it is the genotype that matters, a heterozygous mess is not gonna produce quality consistantly.

I'm not saying all this to make people think all they have and can get is garbage and they are never gonna breed a good animal, I am saying this to get back to the main point of this post. If you think that breeding mean spending as much money as possible for "perfect" animals that will then produce more perfect animals you shouldn't be breeding. A good breeder needs to find good breeding stock, knowing it is good, not great, and knowing that it needs to be improved. They then need to gain the knowledge of genetics required to make the proper crosses so that a percentage of your offspring will be better then their parents. That percentage of animals are now your best, that you will put in breeding instead of selling.
 
That is the perk of being the breeder, the best animals go back into your herd. And by best animals I mean best breeding stock, aka best genotype, which is not always the same as best phenotype. For example I was at a state show once where the Grand Show was sold. He was a very nice looking animal and was owned by a breeder who does not normally sell animals off the top of the table. Later that day I heard the breeder of the animal comment to a friend that the animal in question was a freak, who popped out of two of his worst lines and would never produce anything good in breeding. So the person who bought that animal that day may have thought they got the good stuff, and did get the best phenotype, but the genotype of the animal was questionable at best, and when it comes to breeding it is the genotype that matters, a heterozygous mess is not gonna produce quality consistantly.

If you think that breeding mean spending as much money as possible for "perfect" animals that will then produce more perfect animals you shouldn't be breeding. A good breeder needs to find good breeding stock, knowing it is good, not great, and knowing that it needs to be improved. They then need to gain the knowledge of genetics required to make the proper crosses so that a percentage of your offspring will be better then their parents. That percentage of animals are now your best, that you will put in breeding instead of selling.

Well said Jeff. It is also important to remember that awards are given for the appearance of an animal on a particular day. If the same animals are judged a month later different animals may win the awards. When you are breeding genes/lines are more important than awards. A chin who is the most beautiful on the table may not contribute that beauty/quality when he or she produce offspring.
 
There are no perfect chinchillas. That was well said Jeff. Like I said in another post, 2 top quality animals can produce stinkers and 2 not so good ones can produce a top notch animal. You have to look at phenotype and genotype when breeding. I think you said in a previous post to look back and see who is consistantly in the top of the breeders awards and thats also good advice. I still say never buy a pig in a poke, see the animals before you buy them.
 
Jeff, you did bring up a good point. There are a lot good points in this post. I got Tibbit from Christene (Twilight Chinchillas) and in addition to names, it listed show records for a few of his ancestors. Is that a common practice? It seems like a good idea.
 
I wish it were. I've been putting show results of ancestors on my pedigress in the form of those colored star stickers, equivalent to the dots on MCBA cage cards. However, since none of the breeders of my breeding stock used any kind of system like that, and I'm only one generation into my own breeding, not much show result info is on my pedigrees... yet. =)
 
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