Breeding

[Godins Chinchillas]

I agree with Tunes and Megan. I prefer my animals to have pedigrees but if I know someone's herd and they don't pedigree than I certainly would trust them enough to buy from. I've seen alot of crappy animals with pedigrees.

Jean-there are alot of excellent breeders in different states. I live probably 30 minutes from you. I started in 2000-took a break in 2005 and started back up again this summer. The animals I buy now have some of the best names in the industry. I travel great distances to get some of these animals. Half of my herd right now consists of Shoots animals, then I have a good chunk from Missi (whose lines go back to ryersons, jags, any many others-having a brain fart right now), a couple from Canada, and am adding a bunch from Jags by April. If you plan on traveling to the shows, contact some of these breeders in advance-most are already going to the shows and will bring animals for you. I personally don't want anything less than a first in my herd. Hummel, Merritts, Ryersons, Jags, as well as many others have excellent quality animals. If you truly are looking to breed then invest in high quality animals-it will save you alot of heart ache in the long run.

Jessica

 

[rcr]

When you go to the shows sit where you can hear the judge really well. Listen to what he has to say and take notes. Talk to all the breeders that will take time to answer your questions. When you go to a ranch, look at all the animals that you find most appealing and compare them, i.e. size, fur density, conformation, color. When it comes to honesty you can't trust everyone. Consider that a large breeder/rancher has an established reputation. Most everyone knows who they are and are willing to give their of opinions of them decidedly (although not necessarily on a public forum). If you use a small breeder ask them who they were mentored by and find out all you can on the mentor.

 

[jmdebb]

I agree with Tunes and Megan. I prefer my animals to have pedigrees but if I know someone's herd and they don't pedigree than I certainly would trust them enough to buy from. I've seen alot of crappy animals with pedigrees.

Jean-there are alot of excellent breeders in different states. I live probably 30 minutes from you. I started in 2000-took a break in 2005 and started back up again this summer. The animals I buy now have some of the best names in the industry. I travel great distances to get some of these animals. Half of my herd right now consists of Shoots animals, then I have a good chunk from Missi (whose lines go back to ryersons, jags, any many others-having a brain fart right now), a couple from Canada, and am adding a bunch from Jags by April. If you plan on traveling to the shows, contact some of these breeders in advance-most are already going to the shows and will bring animals for you. I personally don't want anything less than a first in my herd. Hummel, Merritts, Ryersons, Jags, as well as many others have excellent quality animals. If you truly are looking to breed then invest in high quality animals-it will save you alot of heart ache in the long run.

Jessica

Where do you live Jessica. And I didn't want to mention names, but since you did, Missi is the one I plan on purchasing from when I can get more animals. But I do know that I might not be able to get them all from her cuz I don't know if you mix certain good names or not, (not saying anything bad about Missi cuz I really like her), just don't know. Like you said, you there is Hummel, Merritts, etc, so should I purchase chins from different GOOD breeders. Or would it be okay go get them all from one, as long as they weren't related.

Or is it better to have different breeders names in your heard?

Again, Hope that made sense.

And if we only live half how away, I would love to meet you if you want to.

Jean

 

[VolunteerChin22]

You are like me with the GSDs. lol Yes I want working lines.

Anyways, my I know who I would be buying from already, but aside from her, and I do trust her. How can you tell if a breeder is really good and their quality is good. I do plan on going to the next NY show, so if (and this is a question) if someone gets a ribbon or whatever they get (never went to a show before) then does that mean they are someone worth buying from? What do I exactly need to look for, or should I not worry about it cuz there will be people there from this forum and they can help me. But then I don't know if people will be totally honest,not that i mean they will lie, but someone might say this person has great chins, and someone else can say, no this person has better chins....etc.. Hope that made sense.

jean

I think you have been given good advice about going to shows and networking. You know someone is a good breeder by the offspring they produce and that they are consistently going through their breeders to make changes to pairs if they aren't getting quality offspring. You will know who is good if you talk with people on here or at shows. Many people can be good, some just might be better at certain colors or qualities. You can see who does well at shows as one indicator. It will be up to you to weigh the opinions you get and then decide.

Pedigrees are important but I agree with Peggy's take on this one. If you have a limited number of breeders available in an area to get stock from they become important to prevent inbreeding as well.

As for shows, just because someone enters a chin into a show doesn't mean there will be a first place given. Even if only one animal is entered in a class they don't automatically get a first just because there is one animal - they could get anywhere from 1A - 4th to disqualified for some reason. The judges are looking at each animal individually. Some shows you might see the bigger breeders like Shoots or Ryersons take high ribbons consistently but that doesn't mean that a hobby breeder who is smaller doesn't have quality animals.

I think the best idea is to do some soul searching about why you want to breed, what you want to breed for (colors especially), attend a few shows and then talk with some breeders and go from there. The shows are a good place to buy from because the judges make comments on things each animal has that are great but some that need working on. Say for example you see a really nice female you like and the judge says good size, density, but needs a bit of clarity improved and her belly could be whiter. So then you know you are looking for an animal with great clarity, a really white belly to compliment. Just things to think about.

I agree you should start small. What kind of breeding set up were you thinking of? If you decide to do runs then you should invest in the highest quality males you can get and then gradually add quality females. If you are thinking of colony breeding there are other considerations too. These are all things a good mentor could help you think about. Not sure if this answered your questions exactly.

 

[jmdebb]

I think you have been given good advice about going to shows and networking. You know someone is a good breeder by the offspring they produce and that they are consistently going through their breeders to make changes to pairs if they aren't getting quality offspring. You will know who is good if you talk with people on here or at shows. Many people can be good, some just might be better at certain colors or qualities. You can see who does well at shows as one indicator. It will be up to you to weigh the opinions you get and then decide.

Pedigrees are important but I agree with Peggy's take on this one. If you have a limited number of breeders available in an area to get stock from they become important to prevent inbreeding as well.

As for shows, just because someone enters a chin into a show doesn't mean there will be a first place given. Even if only one animal is entered in a class they don't automatically get a first just because there is one animal - they could get anywhere from 1A - 4th to disqualified for some reason. The judges are looking at each animal individually. Some shows you might see the bigger breeders like Shoots or Ryersons take high ribbons consistently but that doesn't mean that a hobby breeder who is smaller doesn't have quality animals.

I think the best idea is to do some soul searching about why you want to breed, what you want to breed for (colors especially), attend a few shows and then talk with some breeders and go from there. The shows are a good place to buy from because the judges make comments on things each animal has that are great but some that need working on. Say for example you see a really nice female you like and the judge says good size, density, but needs a bit of clarity improved and her belly could be whiter. So then you know you are looking for an animal with great clarity, a really white belly to compliment. Just things to think about.

I agree you should start small. What kind of breeding set up were you thinking of? If you decide to do runs then you should invest in the highest quality males you can get and then gradually add quality females. If you are thinking of colony breeding there are other considerations too. These are all things a good mentor could help you think about. Not sure if this answered your questions exactly.

Well please don't bash me, but the reason I want to get into breeding is because I don't have kids, I love animals, always wanted my own animals to have babies and never did, chins are small so it would be easier for me to breed chins than dogs because I don't have a big house.

I know alot of problems can arise, am already prepared for that, I know you breed to better the breed, as for what type, like you mentioned color, I am probably going to sound totally (word) incorrect on this one cuz I still get the mutations wrong, but I'm not thinking about breeding on just certain colors. But just to breed good chins (good stock i think you guys call it). I don't want every color out there, just a few different ones.

I think they are becoming more popular, and people are getting more chins as pets, and I would educate them if they never had them before, give them instructions on paper, tell them to call me with questions because I really care about animals and would want to make sure they went to good homes.

I wouldn't sell any of them to someone who I thought would make a bad home. I don't want to become a big breeder, just basically a hobby breeder with some few good quality chins. Maybe like six good chins that can be breed.

Did that answer your question? (hope that didn't sound sarcastic cuz i don't mean it too). I hope so.

jean

 

[tunes]

Or is it better to have different breeders names in your heard?

Names mean nothing, they are just names. Even the very best breeders produce crap animals. That's just how it goes, and they will be the first to tell you that.

Once you have some good quality animals in breeding, you want to purchase animals that will complement YOUR animals, and your lines. Not all good animals have to come from ranchers. There are many hobbyists who have wonderful animals as well, Becky pops to the top of my head, as well as several others. You'll also find that a lot of those animals have the lines in them from the top breeders as well, because the chinchilla community, when you get down to it, is just not that large.

ETA: I wanted to also say it's the lines that are more important than the name when you go to a large breeder, hence my comment about even large ranchers producing some crap animals. I'm not sure I got that across correctly though (and I'm still not!).

 

[mishalaa]

You have to know what quality is, it's your responsibility as a breeder to recognize it. I don't know that much about dogs, but you want certain qualities in breeding dogs like a certain kind of top line, height, neck etc. It's the same for chins, but you want density, clarity, size, blocky shape, etc. You need to know all the things that add up to a quality animal so you can judge for yourself if the animal is "good" or not.

Same with breeders, you have to do your research on who you get your stock from and consider a "good" breeder. I go a lot on show results because that's what I'm looking for - I want to produce kits that place well at shows, so I buy a lot of stock from breeders who have placed well in the colors that I work with. If it's more important to you to buy from breeders who don't pelt, or who keep their chins in huge cages with hammocks and toys, it's up to you to look into it.

In short, we can't tell you what you want. You have to decide what you want and go find it.

That's not to say we won't mentor you, or answer your questions... just that there's some decisions you have to make for yourself, including who you buy from, what colors you work with, whether you breed in runs or colonies or pairs, whether you outcross or line breed, etc etc.

 

[Claire D]

Well please don't bash me, but the reason I want to get into breeding is because I don't have kids, I love animals, always wanted my own animals to have babies and never did, chins are small so it would be easier for me to breed chins than dogs because I don't have a big house.

 

[MerrittChinchillas]

Yes Tunes, even large ranchers produce some crap animals. Even two really top quality animals can produce a stinker. I agree there are many hobby breeders who have wonderful animals, you don't have to buy from a large rancher to get quality. You need to learn yourself what qualities you need in your own herd. There are some fine breeders in your area, Missi being one of them. Take the advice you're being given on here and run with it. :dance3:

 

[jmdebb]

THanks everyone for your replies and helping me out a bit. I'm sure once I get into it I will really understand things more, it can get so confusing in the beginning.

But I do appreciate all that has been said. ANd hope to meet you guys at the NY Show.

Jean

 

[jmdebb]

Names mean nothing, they are just names. Even the very best breeders produce crap animals. That's just how it goes, and they will be the first to tell you that.

Once you have some good quality animals in breeding, you want to purchase animals that will complement YOUR animals, and your lines. Not all good animals have to come from ranchers. There are many hobbyists who have wonderful animals as well, Becky pops to the top of my head, as well as several others. You'll also find that a lot of those animals have the lines in them from the top breeders as well, because the chinchilla community, when you get down to it, is just not that large.

ETA: I wanted to also say it's the lines that are more important than the name when you go to a large breeder, hence my comment about even large ranchers producing some crap animals. I'm not sure I got that across correctly though (and I'm still not!).

Yes I do understand what you meant about the lines. THank you.
Jean

 

[sschins]

Heck, some of my first animals came from small breeders with no pedigrees. I easily complimented them with some Whitewoods animals, and other with Bobby Young lines, etc. Like was stated so many times before, is that just because an animal doesn't have a pedigree, doesn't mean it can't be bred.

Great care however, must be taken in selecting your non-pedigreed animal, specifically and mainly for the reason that you don't want to introduce health problems into your lines, and also because you don't want to have a "good" animal and a "great" animal create nothing but "mediocre" animals. That defeats the entire purpose altogether.

For example: In December, i adopted out my V2. Things wound up going on with her new owner, and i went and reclaimed her. In the 2 months she hasn't been here, she grew tremendously, and her coat is beautiful. She'll wind up on the show table in April now, and pending how she primes out, she'll work back into my breeding lines. Fate works in mysterious ways.

Yes, when you get into breeding you must start small, but the possibilities are endless. Whether we're small-time breeders or ranchers, we're always learning. Anyhow, that's my two cents.

 

[shuboyje]

Personally, in starting a breeding herd I would look to the national show breeders awards over the last 5 years of so for ECBC and MCBA. Look for names that pop up over and over again. These are the people that are consistantly producing top quality animals, which means they should be most likely to have excess to sell. And always remember, you are always buying second best, because the breeder will always put the best animals back into breeding so it is always a buyer beware situation. Don't be afraid to ask why the animal is being sold instead of being used in their herd, and if the answer sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

 

[chinchildren]

just want to chime in and won't even try to cover everything i was thinking as i read the posts.

everything i said has been said already: great breeders produce crap, great chins produce crap, a pedigree does not insure quality in any way (you need to learn to know it when you see it AND get a 2nd opinion via shows so you are correcting for "barn blindness"), pet store chins CAN be nice quality (define nice...) etc.

my 2c worth are that a pedigree not only does not assure quality but it also does not assure health (even animals from the most respected ranchers in the country malloclude and furchew). what a pedigree DOES give (as far as i am concerned) is the ability to track traits good AND bad (can call people who have a chin from a line that seems to produce dwarfs/chewers/mallocluders whatever and let them know and can also say things like "this line has always produced 1st place chins in the past...")

as others have said, there are breeders who do not do pedigrees and if you want one of their animals you just need to work with that (the foundation animals i have for my white and my violet lines are danko but i am very happy with how my whites and violets have been doing on the show table).

jeff is right in that the old saying that when buying a "herd improvement" animal you should ALWAYS consider who's herd it is you are improving - yours or the seller'?

 

[jmdebb]

Heck, some of my first animals came from small breeders with no pedigrees. I easily complimented them with some Whitewoods animals, and other with Bobby Young lines, etc. Like was stated so many times before, is that just because an animal doesn't have a pedigree, doesn't mean it can't be bred.

Great care however, must be taken in selecting your non-pedigreed animal, specifically and mainly for the reason that you don't want to introduce health problems into your lines, and also because you don't want to have a "good" animal and a "great" animal create nothing but "mediocre" animals. That defeats the entire purpose altogether.

For example: In December, i adopted out my V2. Things wound up going on with her new owner, and i went and reclaimed her. In the 2 months she hasn't been here, she grew tremendously, and her coat is beautiful. She'll wind up on the show table in April now, and pending how she primes out, she'll work back into my breeding lines. Fate works in mysterious ways.

Yes, when you get into breeding you must start small, but the possibilities are endless. Whether we're small-time breeders or ranchers, we're always learning. Anyhow, that's my two cents.

Your two cents were very much appreciated. I always want everyone's opionion when I post a thread because everyone differs in opinion, and you get more knowledgeable. I don't mean about breeding, cuz that's basically cuz and dry, you want to breed good chins, and better the breed, but overall I do like lots of answers.

So thank you.

Jean

 

[jmdebb]

just want to chime in and won't even try to cover everything i was thinking as i read the posts.

everything i said has been said already: great breeders produce crap, great chins produce crap, a pedigree does not insure quality in any way (you need to learn to know it when you see it AND get a 2nd opinion via shows so you are correcting for "barn blindness"), pet store chins CAN be nice quality (define nice...) etc.

my 2c worth are that a pedigree not only does not assure quality but it also does not assure health (even animals from the most respected ranchers in the country malloclude and furchew). what a pedigree DOES give (as far as i am concerned) is the ability to track traits good AND bad (can call people who have a chin from a line that seems to produce dwarfs/chewers/mallocluders whatever and let them know and can also say things like "this line has always produced 1st place chins in the past...")

as others have said, there are breeders who do not do pedigrees and if you want one of their animals you just need to work with that (the foundation animals i have for my white and my violet lines are danko but i am very happy with how my whites and violets have been doing on the show table).

jeff is right in that the old saying that when buying a "herd improvement" animal you should ALWAYS consider who's herd it is you are improving - yours or the seller'?

Thank you and I totally get what you and other people have said. For me, it will be realizing what a good quality on is, but that does take time. But like I said maybe at the NY show I will lots more, someone suggested sitting next to the judges and I think I will try to do that if I can find the room there to sit (i mean if they seats aren't already taken).

Hey speaking of the NYS how will I know who is there from this forum so I can met them and introduce myself?

Jean

 

[Parkerspetchins]

Hey speaking of the NYS how will I know who is there from this forum so I can met them and introduce myself?

Some people wear name tags and you can put your screen name on it as well.

 

[SunshineChins]

And always remember, you are always buying second best, because the breeder will always put the best animals back into breeding so it is always a buyer beware situation. Don't be afraid to ask why the animal is being sold instead of being used in their herd, and if the answer sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

This is a very good point. What about those huge breeders like Shoots or Ryersons? Do they always put the ones that win back into breeding since they have so many animals? If you purchase from them what is a good way to approach them and let them know that you want to purchase the best they have(if possible)?

 

[Megan]

I think the biggest thing is...You aren't going to get the best that they have. You might get good, or really good..but never best. They've got SO many animals, and put a large chunk back into their herds I'm sure.

If you happen to get "the best", I'm sure you'll be paying a VERY nice chunk of change. Much more then I could afford ;-).

Keep in mind.. Just because it wins, does not automatically make it their best animals. ;-)

Even smaller breeders will keep the best they have.. They may not have room to keep them all, so you may get decent culls...but if they have something really, really good--you bet they'll make room for it.

 

[SunshineChins]

Ahhhh... I probably don't have the $$ for the best of the best I am going to try to purchase the best that I see at the show.