Bacterial Enteritis - experience with this?

[Vyxxin]

This is some very interesting discussion going on and I think very thought provoking (I know it's gotten me to thinking). I'd like to point out...people are definitely NOT supposed to bring sick animals to a show BUT things happen. Sometimes the animal is in early (but contagious) stages and you really cannot tell. Sometimes, you can tell...I know at the ACS this year there was an obviously sick animal on the table and one of the older, experienced, show goers loudly commented on it. Inappropriate, maybe...did it need said? Absolutely! When you have an OBVIOUSLY sick animal...leave it home, leave it in it's carrier if it's already at the show and just then showing symptoms...period. BUT...

On the flipside...you don't want your herd to die from transmittable disease/illness...quarantine. We preach it all the time on here...but how many in the "over 3yrs of breeding" club follow it? I doubt more than 25%. Do I judge? No, but I DO think for those that don't quarantine (and yes, this means quarantining your own animals after a show as if they were outside animals) you have yourself to thank regardless of what idiot brought the illness to the show. Likewise, I'm not going to blame anyone for not attending shows anymore. I've considered it.

Unfortunately, I think that'll be the best answer in most cases and is always the answer I give when somebody comes to me for advice. Quarantine to the max, sterilize...sanitize. We've got hand sanitizer and spray bottles filled with high concentrate rubbing alcohol in my chin room...we haven't had an unexplained death in a LONG time. But when we did, it made us reconsider OUR sanitation processes

 

[jags]

For those of you having problems this site may give you some info that may help. I have only received info from three people so far and nothing seems to lend to any one thing or the other between the info from them. More info would help to see what we can find.

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/GI_diseases_main.htm

 

[tunes]

Greychins - Just an FYI - my cages were not wire either. They were Ryerson runs. They were dunked in the bleach water, not soaked, then wiped down with bleach wipes, dunked in a rinse tank, and then laid in the sun to dry. One time isn't going to kill them any more than a water bottle spilling will. they were fine after.

Ange - I agree. Quarantine what you take and what you bring home. What good does it to do quarantine a new animal that has been in a room with 100s of other animals if you don't quarantine your own animals you brought as well?

 

[Vyxxin]

I think a LOT of people figure...it's MY animal...it came from MY house...it was in it's own cage and didn't REALLY contact other animals...

Fact of the matter is:

It touched noses with every animal around it on the back tables, it touched noses with every animal on the classification tables, and it touched noses with every animal on the judging table. AND (and no offense, I trust most of the people that handle at the ACS) it may have come in contact with the hands of EVERY handler that carried it...that could've been upwards of 3-4 people...and the judge (who also handled the cages of MOST of the chinchillas at the show)...this is first why you should never bring a sick chin to a show. Better yet, if you suspect anyone in your herd may be sick from an unknown illness...maybe sit that show out. AND...why quarantine of ALL chinchillas out and in your house is important!

 

[Claire D]

.... and I am applauding the above 3 posts by Peggy & Ange.


Although the loss of chins is always a sad event, especially when it is sudden and unexplained, I am so pleased to see this thread is discussing the practicalities of quarantine and basic infection prevention and control measures.


When I was still in the showing scene here in the UK I used to steward and I always used alcohol hand gel - people thought I was nuts ..... at the events we do as CHINformative every person who wants to touch a chinchilla HAS to use alcohol hand gel before they do so - it sparks some discussion and we've only ever had a few people refuse ... but then some walk away without using the hand gel again after touching the chins - they go straight to another stand and touch whatever animal is there ......


When the chins come home again they go straight into their room - set apart from the other chins.

 

[6Dusters]

Thanks for posting the information link Randy. Was a great read. I book marked it.

 

[saphire]

Great Thread... Just to mention, I have not been to the Nationals. But to the Atlantic Show. I have lost 3 animals that where at that show, my 3rd male of show standard sapphire carrier, 2 beautiful Standard females I brought back from with me and two males that where home. A couple of stillborns.... No deaths since mid July.
The deaths of the adults where unexplainbly fast and no symtoms I have noticed that would cause alarms other than a little less ready to jump on the lifeline.

Ange, thanks for mentionning the sick animal at the show, I was unaware. Sitting in my corner grooming keeps me away from comments or other like these.
Although, I will not be 100% sure this is what may have caused the issue with my animals, I somewhat will stop wracking my brains as much, wondering what it could have been.

I don't blame things on others because of this or that with animals. For we are dealing with living creatures that don't speak for us to understand. And lets face it... S*** happens and I try not to assume things. But more so, will look at myself first to see if I am doing something wrong.

Darn, my first chins bought from the US, they were RR to me to a picnic. One female was heaving (breathing) and she was fine when she left the breeder. (I have no doubt about that for I trust this breeder and the person that RR.) So it is just to say that unexplainable s*** happens.

Anyhow,,,, great thread. I would be great if we could get a definite answer.

 

[Stackie]

I'm surprised more necropsies aren't being done especially when these deaths result in multiple chins dying. If I were a breeder with a herd at risk, I would think you would be jumping on the necropsies especially with multiple chins going for unknown reasons and sending stuff off to pathology...? Or am I missing something?

 

[Vyxxin]

JAGS- side note, a LOT of the breeders who've lost animals were at the ACS (it has come to my attention)...try to get a timeline? If there were several losses between nationals and the ACS fine...but if they were mostly after the ACS that's something that needs looked at.

I know at least FOUR breeders that were at the ACS who've lost multiple chins AND one non-breeder, non-show goer who purchased animals at the show (JUST stopped to pick up) who lost animals that had been at that show.

 

[Pookinaround]

I went to the ACS but did NOT show anything because of the problems I had been having. I did pick up one there who was not in the show and another was dropped off to me the night before and never made it to the show hall. Both were quarantined and have been fine.

 

[greychins]

Peggy -- do you have a suggestion as to how to clean the runs without a horse trough? Do you think spraying em down or rinsing em with bleach water could do it? Generally would be the same thing, I would think, if it gets the entire thing wet.... what mixture of bleach/water did you use?

 

[Pookinaround]

Claire, if you don't mind me asking (and anyone else who would like to chime in for that matter...) why do you no longer show??? I ask this because obviously due to the responses/info given on this thread and also on the other one related to this same topic I have chosen not to participate anymore and I am wondering if those that choose not to show do it for this same reason... If I should start a new thread for this topic I would be glad to just let me know...I just think it is closely related to this so that is why I didn't....

 

[EMSChins]

To my understanding many breeders who have been doing this for a long time, no longer show because they have developed an eye for what they want to use in their own herd after much hard work and years and years of showing and having animals judged. After many years, I hope to be able to hone my own eye for qualities that I want to make consistent throughout my breedings.

 

[saphire]

I'm surprised more necropsies aren't being done especially when these deaths result in multiple chins dying. If I were a breeder with a herd at risk, I would think you would be jumping on the necropsies especially with multiple chins going for unknown reasons and sending stuff off to pathology...? Or am I missing something?

I thought I had put that in my post. I personnally had two done. The vet. mentionned that since they where put in the freezer they would be limited in the possible findings in bacteria and viruses. I had her go ahead with it anyway.

It is my understanding that a few breeers have had necropsy's done.

 

[ticklechin]

Deaths like this need to be sent out, rather than a regular vet doing it-I sent bodies to UC Davis for necropsies when the cause of death was questionable, not many regular vets IMIO would have found the cause of death in my one case as herpes simplex 1.

 

[jags]

I would look at doing a timeline if I had more info. Right now I have received very little info.

 

[Stackie]

Deaths like this need to be sent out, rather than a regular vet doing it-I sent bodies to UC Davis for necropsies when the cause of death was questionable, not many regular vets IMIO would have found the cause of death in my one case as herpes simplex 1.

I agree- having assisted multiple necropsies myself, vets are really limited in what they can find. Unless there is something very obviously wrong with an organ or trauma has been sustained, not much can be concluded from them. I've seen more inconclusive necropsies when it comes to unexplained deaths than I can count. In any case of mysterious/unexplained deaths, more than just a run of the mill necropsy needs to be done.

 

[saphire]

Deaths like this need to be sent out, rather than a regular vet doing it-I sent bodies to UC Davis for necropsies when the cause of death was questionable, not many regular vets IMIO would have found the cause of death in my one case as herpes simplex 1.

Dang Herpes!!

Thanks Dawn, now I know!!

edited: Stackie, thanks you.

will they be able to find any issues as far as viruses etc. once the animal has been in the freezer? I am asking, because she did not suggest that I go further into this. And I thought it had to do with them having been frozen and did not question it.

 

[Stackie]

I know that by freezing the animal, the cells can rupture upon thawing and that can hinder results. I'm sure freezing can kill certain viruses/bacteria but we have sent out samples from previously frozen specimens and gotten positive results. It really depends on the strain of bug. I'd always give it a try, just in case.

 

[Pookinaround]

How does one send out an animal to a university for testing??? Does it have to be done through a vet? Where would you find out how to go about this exactly??? Contact info, preparation, etc... Jags mentioned previously that some have posted live animals in order to do extensive testing...so for example would you have to physically take/fly the animal there...what is the procedure???