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Just my opinion. I understand you want to take it slow and do it right-but where are your standards? I only see mutes and one standard.
 
AZChins said:
That is a good point. Good standards are necessary in a breeding herd for sure. You can't go mute to mute generation after generation, it doesn't do much for fur quality most of the time.
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This is true. Especially if you are breeding multiple mutation colors such as eb white (ebony and white genes) or tans (beige and ebony genes). They've already had mutations in their background to produce their "hybrid" color and these in particular, should almost always be bred back to standards and not more mutes.

You only have one pedigreed standard female. The rest are all mutations...
 
I was trying to edit my post but I took too long. Oops!

Here's what else I meant to add:

Now, all breeders ask this question of themselves before breeding in order to understand their goals and how they will achieve them - I did it before I purchased my first breeding pair and visiting with other breeders to make sure I knew what I was getting into and also so I understood what I would be trying to achieve and how to go about obtaining my goals: why do you want to breed chinchillas? Would you mind answering that question?

Breeding is a lot of work and there are many attributes and experiences that can make a good breeder. I use a lot of learned knowledge from my genetics, bio, and animal science classes from college as well as experience I've gained from owning pet chins and working with vets. Myself and other breeders have spent a lot of time and dedication to breed healthy quality chinchillas and have researched, attended shows, visited other breeders, attended seminars, purchased the best breeding animals possible, etc. to make sure we are doing the best we possibly can to improve the chinchilla. And for those who rescue, which I also do, it really stinks to take in a chinchilla that has genetic health issues like malocclusion or is extremely tiny or growth-stunted from poor breeding and husbandry. Those who breed irresponsibly undermine all the work that good breeders do. Purchasing 19 chins in a short period of time just sent out red flags to a lot of us chin owners, breeders, and rescuers... and that's why people have been "jumping on you" for breeding. Those that were on the other forum certainly didn't appreciate being lied to about breeding, especially because it is a pet forum that does not promote backyard breeding.
 
I agree, someone getting a lot of chins all at once can be a big red flag. I know that here I don't want to sell anyone more than a couple of chins at a time. When people start acting like they can take several on all at once it makes me very, very nervous. Emails where someone, who I do not know, starts asking about multiple chins for breeding purposes normally gets deleted unanswered. (Most of the time people asking for breeding chins have the guts to ask for rescues. Lately those have been deleted unanswered because I do not appreciate them being abusive to me when I try to help.)

Breeding chins is definitely a big deal. No one should just do it without careful consideration for what could happen. I wish people would be more frightened at the prospect of a giant vet bill because all they do is complain later on when they have a giant vet bill for a c-section or other problem!
 
WOW!!(at the "scientific" breeding info) I have had to go through pregnancies & kits but only because they were already pregnant when they were surrendered to me... Breeding is VERY scary to me, losing Lexi's kit last week was heartbreaking...

Courtney, I told you about these forums because they can be VERY helpful & I really hope you continue to read & share!! No one is against you, it is obvious that you love chins, everyone here does!! And if breeding is what it is that you think needs to be done then I hope you thrive at it, that being said, it has been VERY hard to find chins quality homes in our area, we are all at capacity and to know that there will soon be more is kind of frustrating... Like I have said before I think us locals should stick together and work as a team, besides, it's about the all of the chins... Right???
 
aznmexaggie said:
I was trying to edit my post but I took too long. Oops!

Here's what else I meant to add:

Now, all breeders ask this question of themselves before breeding in order to understand their goals and how they will achieve them - I did it before I purchased my first breeding pair and visiting with other breeders to make sure I knew what I was getting into and also so I understood what I would be trying to achieve and how to go about obtaining my goals: why do you want to breed chinchillas? Would you mind answering that question?

Breeding is a lot of work and there are many attributes and experiences that can make a good breeder. I use a lot of learned knowledge from my genetics, bio, and animal science classes from college as well as experience I've gained from owning pet chins and working with vets. Myself and other breeders have spent a lot of time and dedication to breed healthy quality chinchillas and have researched, attended shows, visited other breeders, attended seminars, purchased the best breeding animals possible, etc. to make sure we are doing the best we possibly can to improve the chinchilla. And for those who rescue, which I also do, it really stinks to take in a chinchilla that has genetic health issues like malocclusion or is extremely tiny or growth-stunted from poor breeding and husbandry. Those who breed irresponsibly undermine all the work that good breeders do. Purchasing 19 chins in a short period of time just sent out red flags to a lot of us chin owners, breeders, and rescuers... and that's why people have been "jumping on you" for breeding. Those that were on the other forum certainly didn't appreciate being lied to about breeding, especially because it is a pet forum that does not promote backyard breeding.
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i NEVER lied!!!!!! what doesnt everyone get about that!!! i was accused of lying i not one time said they will never be used for breeding!! i simply never discussed breeding on the other site out of RESPECT for there opinions
 
Aimee & The Chinette's said:
WOW!!(at the "scientific" breeding info) I have had to go through pregnancies & kits but only because they were already pregnant when they were surrendered to me... Breeding is VERY scary to me, losing Lexi's kit last week was heartbreaking...

Courtney, I told you about these forums because they can be VERY helpful & I really hope you continue to read & share!! No one is against you, it is obvious that you love chins, everyone here does!! And if breeding is what it is that you think needs to be done then I hope you thrive at it, that being said, it has been VERY hard to find chins quality homes in our area, we are all at capacity and to know that there will soon be more is kind of frustrating... Like I have said before I think us locals should stick together and work as a team, besides, it's about the all of the chins... Right???
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i agree it is about the chins thats why im getting so upset with everyone jumping my case im trying to give my babies all the proper attention they need and deserve i dont plan on using them as breeding machines, simply a litter here and there thats all...i plan on improving the breed not downgrading it..and thank you aimee i appreciate you being there this whole time, we should stick together lol and by the way im sorry but i stole lexi's name for one of my chins...its the only thing that fit her lol
 
cuz its what i enjoy!
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Why exactly do you enjoy it? I got the impression you haven't bred any yet?

How many litters have you had? How many kits have you had to hand feed around the clock, every 2 hours, sometimes only to watch them die anyway? How many females have you had to rush to the vet at 2:00 in the morning because she was dying with a kit stuck? How many have you had to rehome, all the time worrying that they are going to a good place and not some idiot? How many beat up chins have you had to walk in on because the female didn't want to breed and either the male forced her to or the female killed the male to get her point across?

I get the impression from your posts that you think this is all "Oh goodie! I got chins I'm going to breed them! Happy, happy, joy, joy!" Guess again. At least once a week as I walk in the barn I ask myself - Why am I doing this again? I think most breeders, if they are really honest with you, will tell you that they have asked themselves that at least once, and most likely more times. I sat here the other day holding this little tiny bit of a thing, and despite my best efforts of hand feeding, rotating, and praying, she died in the palm of my hand. I've seen it enough that you'd think I was numb to it. But I sat there crying as I lost this little tiny bit of fluff and I asked myself, once again "Why do I do this?"

You mention you're not just going to breed, you're going to breed to improve. How, exactly, are you going to do that? What shows have you attended? What shows do you plan to attend? I'm not even asking you if you will show, I'm asking how you plan to breed to improve if you don't even know what that is. I am way, way out in the boonies. The closest show for me is 7-1/2 hours away. I'm pretty sure it's farther for you. The closest to you would be Oklahoma or the upcoming show in Florida. Which one do you plan to attend so that you can learn what breeding to improve means?

And please, don't anybody tell me that my post is negative. I am asking what I either was asked, or wish I had been asked, before I started breeding chins. It was me and my mentor - who was a rancher - who definitely did not have the mentality towards animals that I do. I didn't know about forums and the wealth of information available on the net. I didn't have a close circle of breeder and pet friends like I do now, who could help me learn and commiserate when I feel like **** because I lost a kit that wouldn't thrive, or a mom/dad/weanling due to fighting.

So when Sumiko asks "why" you want to breed, stop being defensive. Before you start typing up an angry reply, stop and THINK for a minute. Think of whether you have considered all the ramifications of breeding. Think of if, as Susan mentioned, you can afford a very expensive vet bill as well as the after care involved. Think on what Aimee said. What will you do with your offspring? No breeder is moving chins out the door at a high volume right now. Everybody is struggling with sales. I've separated a buttload of my breeding pairs and so have a lot of others. Look at how many people are selling out. The chinchilla market just isn't what it was a few years ago.

Stop being so defensive and pissed off about people asking a few questions and actually try thinking about them and answering them, if to no one else but yourself.
 
Tunes - that is exactly why I would never breed. Just too much to handle for me. I am one of those softies whose heart breaks everytime I read or hear about a chin dying. Well, almost anytime I hear about any pet that passes. Heck, I work for a nursing facility company and I still get sad and upset about the fact that we call it "expired" when someone dies. I have gone off about that so many times, but that is besides the point. I just couldn't do that to myself. I don't know how you or AZ do it... It would be too much for me.

By the way, that was not negative... I actually found it to be a great response.
 
chinchillalover0927 said:
we have 2 standard females, one we thought was a standard but is actually a VERY light ebony...they both have background info
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Seeing this post, I also wonder about how much you know about genetics and colors. There is no way an ebony can be confused as a standard no matter how light she is. Ebonies do not have white bellies, standards do.

Coming from a rescue standpoint, I would hate to see you get in over your head. Like Sumiko said, the last thing we want are more chinchillas with malo or other genetic issues. We hate having to have these chins put down due to bad breeding, but it happens, every day.

I think as a whole you should do more research. Attend some shows, seminars, and find a breeding mentor you can learn from. This is the first step to becoming a respected breeder. Just owning 19 chins, and breeding 19 chins, is a very different type of responsibility.
 
tunes said:
I get the impression from your posts that you think this is all "Oh goodie! I got chins I'm going to breed them! Happy, happy, joy, joy!" Guess again. At least once a week as I walk in the barn I ask myself - Why am I doing this again? I think most breeders, if they are really honest with you, will tell you that they have asked themselves that at least once, and most likely more times. I sat here the other day holding this little tiny bit of a thing, and despite my best efforts of hand feeding, rotating, and praying, she died in the palm of my hand. I've seen it enough that you'd think I was numb to it. But I sat there crying as I lost this little tiny bit of fluff and I asked myself, once again "Why do I do this?"
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This is entirely true and I was just asking myself this over the summer. When you lose kits, because even the best breeders will lose kits. It's not something you can avoid. You start questioning why you put yourself through the heartbreak all the time.

I think everyone is asking about the herd because with all of those mutations...you can't pair them all to one standard female. Your herd should be comprised of 70% standard and 30% mutation (straight from a top rancher). Standards may not be that cool color but they are the foundation of my herd and should be the same for everyone. My mutations are ALL paired to standards so about 60% of my herd is standard and I'm working toward making it more. Over the next few years when I buy breeding stock I'm going to be buying standards and a very small amount of blacks.

I'm not sure who the breeder is that you went to but I can tell you from some of the pictures you posted that some of those chins are not totally up to par. If you visited someone that is not a sanctioned judge (through Empress or MCBA) I would not trust their eye for quality. What they think is excellent could have multiple faults that their eyes are not yet trained to see.

I think a lot of people are also concerned because it doesn't appear that you've attended any shows. The mark of a breeder wanting to improve the quality of the chinchilla is attendance at these shows. It helps us compare our quality to others and find what we are doing wrong with our herds. It also prevents us from being "barn blind" and thinking our chins are the best in the world.

ETA: The standard that you say is an ebony could very well be a dirty bellied standard. It takes a trained eye to tell the difference between the two because they can be very similar so I wouldn't just believe everything the breeder told you. Breeders can often times be wrong. Especially when they don't have enough experience with looking at quality chins and finding their faults.
 
ETA: The standard that you say is an ebony could very well be a dirty bellied standard. It takes a trained eye to tell the difference between the two because they can be very similar so I wouldn't just believe everything the breeder told you. Breeders can often times be wrong. Especially when they don't have enough experience with looking at quality chins and finding their faults.
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If that's the case, you (the person who made the thread) definitely don't want to be breeding a dirty bellied standard.
 
If that's the case, you (the person who made the thread) definitely don't want to be breeding a dirty bellied standard.
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Yes you can, but you would want to breed it back to an eb. Some people call dirty bellied standards out of an eb pairing "eb carriers." I have a few dirty bellies here, that I know are out of ebs, and they go back to ebs.

You would not want to breed a dirty bellied standard into a nice white bellied group of animals because then you would run the risk of mucking them up.
 
Wow.........there is just so much to learn! I do hope that the orginial poster (congrats on the new family btw!) reads all this and gets all the information and absorbs as much as possible before delving into the world or breeding.
I honestly must say that when I had 3 it was pretty easy, when I "rescued" the 4 from Jill it definitely decreased my free time. Sure I can just change their water and dump new food in the bowl, spend 15 minutes total on them...BUT I just can't do it! While I certainly can't take them all out every night, I do try & spend some time with them several times a day and maintain their cages daily.
I honestly don't know how you guys (Peggy, AZ, etc....) do it. The immense knowlege that you all have just amazes me.
 
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