Lily ate a bell "ringer", impaction questions

[Brittany]

Sorry for the double post, my 10 minute window to edit has expired.

I was just researching bloat and it appears to me that the biggest cause is bad feeding habits. When Lily was very young we over-treated her (primarily with oats and rasins) but for the better part of two years her diet has been:
-unlimited oxbow pellets
-unlimited timothy hay
-filtered water
-less then 1/12 tsp. of lifeline mixed with a drop of water daily as a treat
-treat of 1 shreddie or 1 rosehip once a week (within the last month I've added a bit of Tanya's broad spectrum supplement for variety)

I think this is a pretty healthy diet, can someone advise me if I'm doing something wrong? Is there anything else that causes bloat that I should be aware of, something I may unknowingly be doing?

 

[menagerie]

Ask your vet for digital copies of the xrays. They should be able to put them on a CD for you or email them to you. That way you can post them and we can admire them and help diagnose.

 

[Chintastic!]

I would seriously consider never seeing that vet again. They are not professional and when your animal is in crisis you arnt thinking strait. I had a similar experience with a vet several years ago when he told me that six was an old chinchilla and that it probably wasnt worth it to try and save him. Let us just say that we never went there again.

I hope Lily turns out alright, sending healthy vibes your way!

 

[Claire D]

Brittany, can you give us an update on the condition of your chinchilla please?
Is she eating or drinking by herself?
Is she passing droppings? If so please describe them (small, hard etc)
Is she actually showing any signs of bloating? Pressing her belly on the floor of the cage, stretching up, grinding her teeth, hard belly etc.

 

[Stackie]

I think this is a pretty healthy diet, can someone advise me if I'm doing something wrong? Is there anything else that causes bloat that I should be aware of, something I may unknowingly be doing?

It's hard telling what caused all the gas- I very rarely give my chins treats and they eat Tradition & timmy hay only...Roo developed it anyway. The only thing different was I gave them a bit of orchard grass mixed in their hay for about a week. It can be caused by overgrowth of bacteria in the gut..they produce the gas and it overwhelms the chin's GI system.

If she isn't showing signs of bloating, I'd be wondering if something else is going on...

I would like to hear the answers to Claire's questions as well, and would like to see the x-rays if at all possible.

 

[ticklechin]

Sorry for the double post, my 10 minute window to edit has expired.

I was just researching bloat and it appears to me that the biggest cause is bad feeding habits. When Lily was very young we over-treated her (primarily with oats and rasins) but for the better part of two years her diet has been:
-unlimited oxbow pellets
-unlimited timothy hay
-filtered water
-less then 1/12 tsp. of lifeline mixed with a drop of water daily as a treat
-treat of 1 shreddie or 1 rosehip once a week (within the last month I've added a bit of Tanya's broad spectrum supplement for variety)

I think this is a pretty healthy diet, can someone advise me if I'm doing something wrong? Is there anything else that causes bloat that I should be aware of, something I may unknowingly be doing?

Nix the shreddie, chins can become wheat intolerant and it causes bloat and other digestive upset. Any bloat chin that the bloat comes on for no reason should not get wheat to be on the safe side. Took months to diagnose my Father and Son wheat intolerant chins and lots of bloat.

 

[Brittany]

Brittany, can you give us an update on the condition of your chinchilla please?
Is she eating or drinking by herself?
Is she passing droppings? If so please describe them (small, hard etc)
Is she actually showing any signs of bloating? Pressing her belly on the floor of the cage, stretching up, grinding her teeth, hard belly etc.

Nix the shreddie, chins can become wheat intolerant and it causes bloat and other digestive upset. Any bloat chin that the bloat comes on for no reason should not get wheat to be on the safe side. Took months to diagnose my Father and Son wheat intolerant chins and lots of bloat.

She is drinking by herself although not as much as she should be.
She is passing droppings. They are the normal shape just shrunk to about half size (I'll take pics later) they are hard, she sqauts a bit before pooping so I'm assuming she's having trouble passing them?
She stretches a bit, but mostly after waking up, so I don't know if it's bloat or just stretching? Grinding teeth a bit and hard belly (comparing it to Lady's) I've also noticed her back is starting to hunch, I'm assuming she's contracting the muscles from pain?

Last night she had a long play session, she ran around for a bit but after awhile settled in her cage to rest. I took her out of the cage and closed the door so she couldn't get back in and she ran, popcorned and wall surfed for a bit. Yesterday she had 2 .6ml doses of smithecone and she has eaten approximately 16ml of CC. She took about 5ml of CC this morning, I will feed again when we get back from the vet and and a few times tonight. She hasn't pooped since her last feeding but that was only 15 minutes ago.

Was going through my messages and somehow I missed a call from the exotic vet's receptionist. I had asked her to talk to him about smithecone doses (before you guys posted the dosage amount) and her reply was "vet doesn't believe that smithecone will help. I could give her the tinest drop if I want but he has his own compound he is going to give her.

I'm leaving for the vet in about 10 minutes we have an hour drive. I will request xray copies and insist on metacam, sub-q's, and gut motility drugs. We'll see what he says about getting the gas to dissapate.

 

[Kalandra]

I keep checking this thread hoping you will have returned from the vet by now. I know you are very worried about Lily. We have our quills crossed here that Lily will get well soon.

 

[RDZCRanch]

Brittany, I have heard the "simethicone doesn't do anything" from vets with little experience treating bloat chins. It works, it's been proven time and time again with numerous chins. I've treated several here myself and on my vet's orders I use simethicone for bloat animals.

 

[Brittany]

Update After vet visit

Update:

We're back from the vet, she made about 20 small poos there. He said she does have gas and a minor impaction (probably fur & food, not a foreign object). He completely dismissed the sub-q's, reglan, and simethicone. He didn't seem to think metacam was necessary but I insisted on it so he's recommended the following treatment:

.1cc Cisipride 3 times a day
.4ml Meloxicam suspension (metacam) once a day if necessary

I know fluids are important so I watered down her Critical Care even more and she just ate another 5ml.

From what I've read the cisipride will help her gut move but she still needs the simethicone to help dissipate the gas?

As a side note I'm floored by what he charged me for the meds $30 for the meloxicam and $40 for the Cisipride. I called our vet back in IL and they said that they would have charged $10 and $11 respectively for the same amount. :hair:

Here are her x-rays, this is the first time I'm seeing them as he didn't show me either.

 

[Laurie]

I would love for someone knowledgeable on the forum to explain to me how gas is visible on the xray. As gas is a gas and not visable to the naked eye I would like to see and understand how you can see it on an xray.

Brit,
Thanks for sharing these xrays with us--I hope your girlie continues to do well. I'm glad you insisted on subq's reglan and simethicone and even more so that he listened. Sending healing thoughts your way!

 

[chinnychinchinchilla]

i would get a new vet

 

[Stackie]

Laurie, air on an x-ray shows up as a darker or black area. It looks like she has quite a few gas bubbles present in the upper GI tract. I would keep up with the simethicone and all the other bloat treatment. The cisapride will get her GI system moving.

As long as she is pooping, it's a good sign. Once they stop pooping and taking food, you know it's getting bad.

I don't see where he sees an impaction, though. The x-ray's are kinda small for me to tell, but I really don't see any masses present in the stomach or intestines.

 

[Brittany]

I would love for someone knowledgeable on the forum to explain to me how gas is visible on the xray. As gas is a gas and not visable to the naked eye I would like to see and understand how you can see it on an xray.

Brit,
Thanks for sharing these xrays with us--I hope your girlie continues to do well. I'm glad you insisted on subq's reglan and simethicone and even more so that he listened. Sending healing thoughts your way!

Yes I would love an explanation of the xrays too.

She didn't get the sub-q's or reglan he flat out refused. I did get him to perscribe metacam, and I will be giving simethicon on my own as well as watering down the CC to get more liquid in her. Does anyone know how often I should give the .6ml simethicone? Is it safe to give simethicone, cisipride, and meloxicam (metacam) during the same sitting or should I space them out by a few hours? Also will the acidophilus cancel any of these drugs out like it does if given too close to a dose of baytril?

 

[Stackie]

You can't really overdose on simethicone. I gave Roo a dropper full every 4 hours.

The antibiotic actually cancels out the acidophilus- the purpose of the antibiotic is to attack the bacteria, and the antibio. will attack the acidophilus. So, you should space it out between dosages. Everything else should be fine to give together.

 

[Sandi]

Brittany, if you're not giving her any antibiotics then it's ok to give the meloxicam and simethicone at the same time. Also, if you've got lifeline, mix that in with the CC and you don't have to make it super watery either.

 

[Stackie]

You can't really overdose on simethicone. I gave Roo a dropper full every 4 hours.

The antibiotic actually cancels out the acidophilus- the purpose of the antibiotic is to attack the bacteria, and the antibio. will attack the acidophilus. So, you should space it out between dosages. Everything else should be fine to give together.

I meant to say, since you aren't giving an antibiotic, everything should be fine given altogether. I don't know why I thought you had an antibiotic. :wacko:

 

[Laurie]

Thanks Stack! I do see a couple of dark spots in the xray so I understand the possiblity of these being gas

 

[RDZCRanch]

Laurie, air on an x-ray shows up as a darker or black area. It looks like she has quite a few gas bubbles present in the upper GI tract. I would keep up with the simethicone and all the other bloat treatment. The cisapride will get her GI system moving.

Stace gave a good explanation of seeing the gas here. It doesn't look as severe as a lot of bloat cases I've seen, but bloat is bloat so she needs the treatments. You can see two large gas "bubbles" and quite a few small ones as well as some formed poops making their way out. The large amount of small gas bubbles in the upper GI tract can easily combine into a large gas bubble like the two seen in the lower GI tract which are deadly and dangerous. Keep up with the massages, simethicone and treatments to keep things going in her.

I don't know why your vet doesn't think gas is painful...has HE ever had gas? Sharp pains...uncomfortable. It also irritates me that he flat refuses to work with anything you've told him. A good vet does NOT disregard the feelings of an owner, especially if the medications requested do not harm the life of the animal and can only help. Simethicone does help, I'd go back to the original vet and ignore this guy.

 

[Laurie]

I just wanted to say that yes Tab that vet is nuts! I am currently living in a gas nightmare since my surgery 2 weeks ago and it's incredibly painful!