Lily ate a bell "ringer", impaction questions

[Brittany]

This morning I found that Lily had taken apart her kabob toy. The metal "ringer" from inside the bell has been ripped out, I took her cage apart and I can't find it, so I am assuming she ate it. I can't believe she could have swallowed it whole?

Other then decreased poop what are othe signs of impaction? How long would it take for something like this to get through her system and affect her? Any treatments I should discuss with the vet if I need to take her in? Any other advise?

At this point shes acting fine, keep us in your thoughts that this doesn't become an issue.

 

[Stackie]

I would be inclined to go to the vet and get x-rays just for peace of mind and so you know if you are going to be dealing with a possible impaction or not. That way you'll also be prepared along with your vet if problems should arise. Just me, I'm a worry wart. Hopefully it just fell out behind the cage or something..

When Smudge had his impaction, I noticed his poos had started looking small, very dark, and dry. He also stopped showing any interest in his pellets & hay, and just in general looked down. Our first trip to the vet showed nothing in the x-rays, but the x-rays were pretty poor quality because it was only the vet and 1 tech that was scared of him.

The next x-rays showed the impaction. He got an injection of reglan, along with oral doses, and was to be given sub-q fluids that I injected myself at home. He also got belly massages and excercise in attempts to get his GI system moving again along with warm compresses. Oh and of course, CC feedings.

The sub-q's are very important...if there is an impaction, the poos just sit in the GI tract and the water gets sucked out of them. They become very hard and can add to the impaction, so the sub-q fluids helps keep them hydrated and makes it easier to get them out.

The whole ordeal was documented in this thread..some great advice was given here as well: http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13431

 

[Brittany]

Thanks for the info Stacey. I spoke on the phone with a tech at our new vet office today (haven't met them yet, since we just moved a few months ago) I was advised that she needs lots of fiber/ rouffage (sp?) to help it pass? They suggested hay and green veggies (obviously I wont be feeding veggies) but if the fiber could help I'll give her a shreddie tonight. I'm going to do a more through search around her cage when I get home tonight, if I don't find anything I'll call tomorrow about x-rays. I was able to stop in at lunch to check her. and was pleased to see that she was at her bowl eating. Really hope I can find that darn piece tonight.

 

[menagerie]

You can take one of two routes here.

1) Keep an eye on her and make sure she's eating, pooping and acting normal, rush to the vet if she's not.

2) Take her to the vet and have xrays taken so you know one way or the other if she did swallow the clapper (the thing inside the bell). If she did, I would monitor to see if it passes. If it hasn't passed in a few days, she will need to have it surgically removed.

Lily swallowed a surgical staple after her leg amputation and it got embedded in her stomach lining. It needed to be surgically removed as it was causing problems.

Here's Lily's xray.

 

[Laurie]

Brittany another high fiber thing would be some oats--old fashioned not quick cooking.

 

[alli713]

I believe straight up pumpkin, not the pie filling with other things in it, also has quite a bit of fiber. Obviously you wouldn't want to give her too much to upset her system, but a small bit may help?

Hopefully she didn't eat it though!

 

[Brittany]

Brittany another high fiber thing would be some oats--old fashioned not quick cooking.

Good I'll go pick some up.

You can take one of two routes here.

1) Keep an eye on her and make sure she's eating, pooping and acting normal, rush to the vet if she's not.

2) Take her to the vet and have xrays taken so you know one way or the other if she did swallow the clapper (the thing inside the bell). If she did, I would monitor to see if it passes. If it hasn't passed in a few days, she will need to have it surgically removed.

Lily swallowed a surgical staple after her leg amputation and it got embedded in her stomach lining. It needed to be surgically removed as it was causing problems.

Did it get embedded because of the sharp ends or because it was a foreign object? What symptoms did she show? Is there any way the clapper would just stay in her stomach and not cause an immediate impaction, but cause problems down the road?

Just got done meticulously searching the cage and area around her cage apart, it's nowhere to be found. The vet is closed now, so I'll give them a call tomorrow to discuss xrays. So far poops are normal (crossing my fingers they stay that way). The thing that still gets me is the clapper is larger then even the biggest poop I've ever seen her make. I still can't figure out how she swallowed it whole without choking, or how she's going to pass it?:wacko:

 

[menagerie]

Did it get embedded because of the sharp ends or because it was a foreign object? What symptoms did she show? Is there any way the clapper would just stay in her stomach and not cause an immediate impaction, but cause problems down the road?

Then ends were curled in. I don't know why it embedded. I got her from the ER vet 3 weeks after her amputation. At that point she was barely eating and had very small poops. I started her on CC and I was monitoring her weight. She was eating enough to sustain the weight of a chin twice her size, yet was continuing to lose weight. That's when we went to the exotics vet to be looked over. The thought was that she had an infection or something that was making her lose weight. Boy was I surprised when he showed me the xrays.

I don't know if the clapper would be able to work it's way through her system. I would lean towards having her xrayed now to see if she did swallow it. I always take the clappers out of bells because I can't stand the noise in the middle of the night.

Extracted staple next to a rolled oat for size reference. Complete with stomach goo.

 

[Stackie]

I would be worried that if the clapper did begin to work it's way through her system, that it might do some damage. I've never had a kabob so I don't know the size of the clapper or if it has a sharp end to it or anything.

The vet believes that the plastic Smudge ingested caused some damage and left scar tissue. He has had what I thought to be bouts of constipation ever since the incident. He now has chronic mis-shaped poops, and the vet believes it may be due to some scar tissue left in his intestines from the plastic working it's way through.

 

[Brittany]

Update:

Lily hardly ate last night, and was getting constipated (small poop, fewer poops made) I called the exotic vet (Dr. D) and was told by his receptionist that he is out of town today. We made an appointment for Thursday morning, the receptionist told me she would call Dr. D to update him, and that if Lily got worse I could drop her off and the receptionist would put her in an incubator until Dr. D came in tomorrow hair: SERIOUSLY!?) I got off the phone with her and started calling around to other vets to see if anyone would take chinchillas. In the meantime Dr. D's receptionist called back and said their x-ray machine is broke so Dr. D wanted me to go to another vet and get x-ray's done today. So off we went to this new vet. Now they only see cats & dogs but were going to xray Lily anyway. This vet assured me that the x-rays show there is no metal in her body, so she either never ate the clapper or it has already passed. She did say however that Lily's GI tract is "jam packed with gas." This vet recommended that I give her fruits and veggies, and no fiber so to pull her hay hair: Seriously!?) They also wouldn't show me the x-rays but just emailed them to Dr. D I guess I'll see them at our appointment tomorrow. So at this point I did some self diagnosing and since they're telling me she's full of gas I administered a tiny bit of smithecone and gave her a belly rub. I mixed some lifeline with her pellets to encourage her to eat them (she's a lifeline addict) but if she hasn't eaten by this evening I will start hand feeding. So until I see Dr. D how frequently can I give her smithecone and how much is safe to give (she weighs 465g today)? Any other thoughts for getting the gas moving? Thanks for all the advice I appreciate it!

 

[Laurie]

Brit keep doing belly massages to try to get her pass whatever poos she has and get rid of the gas. Keep up with the baby gas drops to help with this as well. I hope all goes well tomorrow and keep us posted!

 

[Sandi]

Brittany, it's ok to give her a dropper full (0.6 ml) of the simethicone and if she hasn't eaten by now, I'd start hand feeding her as well.

ETA: in addition to the belly rubs, give her some extra run/play time as well.

 

[Claire D]

Is she getting subcut fluids, gut stimulants, pain relief as well as the Simethicone & belly massage?

 

[caiti]

When my chin had some gas, along with everything everyone has suggested so far (as home remedies go--it didn't get bad enough to being her to the vet and get meds) I noticed a sock full of warm uncooked rice worked quite well. I even made my own fleece sock holder since Chloe was trying to eat the sock and get to the elastic threads in it. I just tried to tuck it under her so it was touching her lower abdomen. I didn't make it too hot so the heat dissipated quickly, but she usually started trying to nibble/play with it shortly after anyways. Did that a handful of times a day and it was the one thing that made her poo within moments. Don't know if that will help but if you have some spare rice, or maybe it would work with small pasta or something (no idea) it might be worth a try in the meantime.

 

[Stackie]

I just had to take one of my chins to the vet the other morning for bloat. I didn't post about it, but I got the bloat under control within a couple of hours.

The vet gave him sub-q's, an injection of reglan, and a few day's dosages of reglan & cisapride, and metacam. Bloat in chins can be very painful. He also got a dropper full of simethicone every couple of hours, along with however much CC he would eat that was stocked full of acidophilus.
He got belly massages, warm compresses (rice warmed up in a sock in the microwave) and light excercise. In the morning he was doing the stretching, but after all the treatment, he was back to his normal self at night.

I'm surprised at the coincidence though....did you get to look at the x-rays?

 

[Brittany]

The vet gave him sub-q's, an injection of reglan, and a few day's dosages of reglan & cisapride, and metacam. Bloat in chins can be very painful. He also got a dropper full of simethicone every couple of hours, along with however much CC he would eat that was stocked full of acidophilus.
He got belly massages, warm compresses (rice warmed up in a sock in the microwave) and light excercise. In the morning he was doing the stretching, but after all the treatment, he was back to his normal self at night.

I'm surprised at the coincidence though....did you get to look at the x-rays?

Is she getting subcut fluids, gut stimulants, pain relief as well as the Simethicone & belly massage?

Brittany, it's ok to give her a dropper full (0.6 ml) of the simethicone and if she hasn't eaten by now, I'd start hand feeding her as well.

ETA: in addition to the belly rubs, give her some extra run/play time as well.

I haven't seen the xrays yet, they emailed them to the exotic vet that we are seeing in the morning. The cat& dog vet recommended veggies (not going to give them) they theorized that she may have gulped in a lot of air while swallowing the clapper, and that the clapper passed through. I don't know much about bloat so I don't know if that theory is logical or not? Now that the xrays confirm there is no clapper I'm finding it hard to believe she actually swallowed it in the first place. It is at least 3 times the size of the staple Meanie posted. I just assumed she ate it because after thoroughly checking her cage and the area surrounding it I couldn't find it anywhere. When I found the broken bell in her fleece tube the clapper had clearly been ripped out, so I know she was at least playing with it at some point.

I will talk to the vet about sub-q's, gut motility drugs, and pain meds. The exotic vet, who is still out of town, is the only person I've found who offers emergency after hour care for chins so tonight I am hand feeding, giving belly rubs, lifeline, acidophilus, smithicone, and extra playtime. I also have a rice pack that I can heat up for her.

Thank you again for all the advise, I would have never thought to ask for the sub-q's or some of the other drugs. I'm going to search for old threads on bloat to read up on it. I'll update after the vet tomorrow.

 

[~SG~]

if it was me I'd refuse to pay for the X Rays until they let you at least see them

 

[greychins]

I think that is a bit odd as well that they didn't show you the x-rays. No matter what animal I've taken in, I've always seen the x-rays and had the doctor point out whatever was/wasn't wrong and that kind of thing...

Well, hopefully when you go in tomorrow and hopefully get to see the x-rays at the exotic vet, there will be no metal.

 

[caiti]

Do you have Lily on shavings? I could see a piece of metal being hard to see in there. Could she have chewed it in half or more and the pieces are so small they're hidden somewhere?

When Chloe had gas, I basically did exactly what Stacie did minus the vet RXed meds. Took her out about 3-4 times a day for around an hour total. Fed her about 5-6 times a day and gave her a dropper full of simethicone each time. Gave her as many tummy massages as she would let me and the rice compress about 3 times a day and weighed her at least once a day. It turned out she was fine after the first day or two of me doing the full treatment and she didn't want to eat on her own but could and I thought she was still sick. She was just taking advantage of being hand fed.

I don't really know about the whole swallowing air thing so it could be possible or unlikely. Yes, veggies would be bad to give. The thing with bloat is, giving a mass of fiber (so it won't break down into more gas) helps move the gas or blockage along the intestines but it could also just sit there and add to the problem if the chin's intestines just can't keep it traveling down the tract, becoming a blockage itself so that's why bloat is so tricky to treat. The solution is a balance, usually on the side of giving more fiber than restraining from giving it hoping the meds, massages, runs and compresses will help move the fiber along.

 

[Brittany]

Do you have Lily on shavings? I could see a piece of metal being hard to see in there. Could she have chewed it in half or more and the pieces are so small they're hidden somewhere?

She is on fleece. I had just changed the liner Monday evening so it had only been 8ish hours between me cleaning the liner and her breaking the bell. There wasn't very much poop or hay debris so I hand picked through all of it. I also disassembled the cage (twice) to see if it had fallen into any cracks, moved the cage and checked the carpeting within "kicking range" I thought I was thorough, but since I never found it you never know. Regardless I am going to make sure that the exotic vet shows me the xrays and explains it all to me.

As far as making the other vet show me the xrays I guess hind sight is 20/20, truthfully I wanted to get her out of there ASAP. I didn't mention it before because it wasn't relavent but I had to teach the vet and tech how to hold her because they kept reaching for the ribcage. They also insisted that she was weighing in around 600g. I weighed her just before I put her in the carrier and she was 465g PLUS Lily's never been over 500g before in her entire life. They wanted to use anesthesia but since they didn't have the right weight and wanted to argue with me about it I was too scared that they would give her too much and hurt her. I told them to try without anesthesia first and come talk to me if she was being too squirmy. Luckily they said she held very still and they got some good shots.