What's in it for you? ECBC suggestions wanted.

[ticklechin]

I was a member of MCBA, and enjoyed parts of the newsletter than dealt with health and welfare of chins, If I could see more of that in the ECBA I would join just for that valuable info.

 

[Riven]

Dawn you know so much about teeth issues I'm sure you could write a great article yourself! I know I'd love to read, and I'm sure it would be full of great information.

 

[chinnychinchinchilla]

what would my responsibilities be if i joined?
what happens after i join and whats the next step?

 

[mark miller]

Being a part of ECBC only requires filling out an application and paying your fee which I believe is $45. You will receive a magazine monthly, you'll have showing rights as a member and full privilages of members except for voting rights at the annual meeting. How involved you want to be with a chapter or branch or with the shows is completely up to you. If you have a good idea to submit for change within the organization you can simply ask a veteran member to propose it for vote at the annual meeting. After 2 years of membership you can upgrade to full membership with voting privilages for $75 a year. Yes Empress was established on the promotion of the pelting market many years ago. They tried to discourage their members for years from breeding for pets fearful it would destroy the quality and quantity of pelts in the country. Since that time the fur market has plummeted due to failing economies around the world. The organization has relaxed its stance on the pet market realizing breeders had to make money and the pelt market became to unpredictable to rely on solely. Personally I've raised and shown chins for almost 30 years and I can honestly say I've never pelted one. I've seen it done, I grew up around it, but always was able to sell everything I didn't need for breeding as live animals both to other breeders and as pets. The organizations do not require anyone to pelt. They will provide the information and means to learn and do it humanly if u want to learn but it's not pushed on anyone anymore.

 

[mishalaa]

Here are things I would like to see on the websites. Some of this info is already up on one or the other website, and some of this is easier said than done.

- Better design and layout to make the information easier to find.
- List of currently sanctioned judges and judges in training. This would help chapters know who’s available for judging shows.
- Requirements for becoming a judge.
- Membership application. A way to do “virtual” sponsorship for those who need a sponsor on their applications.
- Explanation of membership benefits: magazines, reduced show fees, reduced cost of supplies through the orgs, etc.
- Ranch brand application.
- Official list of ranch brands accredited through the orgs.
- Complete list of services. I have heard about ranch certification, don’t know what needs to be done to get it.
- For Empress, I’d like to see the Registry available online. Sure the animals get a second ear tag, but how much benefit is that if the registry is not public?
- List of board members and officers for the orgs and chapters. Contact info, email address would be better than a phone number (though I understand some of the older ranchers may not have email?)
- Archive of minutes for the National meetings. I like to know what the orgs are doing with my membership fee, even if I’m not in attendance.

I would like to see more chapters with their own websites, and doing the same regarding minutes as well.

 

[Riven]

Mish I love it. It's a clear easy to read list of what you want! Perfect!

I'll pass this information along. I did talk with someone regarding the ECBC website, and was told there are plans to revamp it, I can't verify much more on that, like when or anything, but it's good to know that a possible change there is coming up!

 

[Riven]

Missed my edit time.

Mish, here is the link about the ranch certification: http://www.empresschinchilla.org/ranchcert.asp

For ECBC there is a PayPal button for ranch brand registry, and I believe the application has the option on the bottom of it to include a ranch brand as well.

As for the registry program, the animal is tagged and you get a certificate. It's a quality program that has three phases. More information about the program here: http://www.empresschinchilla.org/registry.asp

Could you elaborate on why you feel that the log of registered animals would be beneficial to be listed online? Thanks for you suggestions!

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

I would love to have a chapter in our area.

 

[VolunteerChin22]

I know this might be the lamest reason mentioned but I know some ECBC shows require ear tags and some don't and I just personally dont really want to deal with those. I also like the age classification at MCBA shows - I know judges can take that into account but I would rather see a 6mo compete with 6mo olds at least at first. Really, I just go to shows that are close and fit the animals I have to show timing wise.

I cant remember if I joined MCBA when I got my ranch brand or not...I think I did...If I did I haven't been getting the magazines or anything...

 

[brenda]

Hi Guys!
I don't get a chance to read through many/all threads very often, but came across this one today and am very pleased with the response and suggestions. I am a member of the MCBA Board of Directors and I handle memberships.
I completely agree that the organizations are going to have to change and evolve and I am all for it. It's not always easy, however, and unfortunately takes baby steps sometimes. There is a-lot of history in both organizations that has been hard to get over. I'm hoping this will really start to change soon and work for it whenever possible, while still maintaining the integrity of both organizations. We've got great people running both groups who want to keep them going, but we do need help. We need membership numbers and people who are willing to pitch in.
If any of you are interested in joining MCBA, please let me know. I am more than willing to help get you started.
I am also happy to take suggestions to the board for our semi-annual meetings for discussion.

 

[Riven]

VolunteerChin - I personally LOVE eartags. I have enough animals that it makes my life a lot easier. I often tag when I wean. If you don't have tags, don't know how to tag, or don't like the tagging yourself part of it, usually each branch or a rancher will have some spare or blank tags and will tag the chin for you. Just make sure you let the branch know ahead of time so they can be sure to have them there. The tags help verify the animals if say some got out. Say two animals got out over night in the morning you can verify the animals owner by the tags.

I also understand your concern with the age groups. But in the end they all go for the same award, grand show. To me if an animal is going to be shown it should be able to compete against all of the other animals there. There are have been 6 month olds that have easily beaten out older animals, and even taken top awards. I know I had a pink white take Champion White at a show at 5 months old once, because that day he was the best animal there. I showed him again later and he received a 1st.

I am also a fan of the 10 class show because the class is not full of one person's animals. Say something like Ralph Shoots was to show, he could easily have most of the animals in an entire class, in a 10 class show every animal is judged against each other and one class can't have a bunch of one ranchers animals in it. I personally feel that this offers a wider range of chins to compare per class offering a more consistent selection for the judges to work with. For example I could take a whole chunk of animals that are very light standards, and easily win a light phase class, but say Ralph Shoots can come in and over take the dark classes. My light phase animals won't even come close to what Ralph brought, but yet they received class champion the same as Ralph's. I hope that made sense to someone other than me.

For those who don't know a ten class show is based on simple numbers. When each breeder comes in they get numbers for each of their cages. If the first person brings 10, they are 1 - 10, if the next person brings 7, they are 11 - 17, and so on and so forth.
Say for ease there are 100 animals present, they are then split into groups by the last digit of their cage number. So cage number 1, 11, 21, 31, etc. will show against each other regardless of age, sex, color phase, etc. In this instance the first person to sign in would have one chin in each class, so they are not competing against themselves for a class award.

ECBC does not run the mutation section this way. Mutations are divided up into simple colors. White with dark ears, white with pink ears ( pink white), beige, violet, sapphire, ebony, tan, etc. But the whites all show against each other regardless of color phase or markings, etc.

I hope that I got that all clear enough not to confuse anyone.

 

[mishalaa]

I had read that page before, a couple years ago or so, about the ranch certification. I couldn't find it again, I would have expected it to be linked where it says "Ranch Certification" under the Member Services page, but it is not. This is one of the things I meant by better layout - information where you would expect to find it. Also I read on the forum once that MCBA offers this exact same service, yet it is not mentioned at all on their website.

MCBA does not have the ranch brand application form on their website. The link says "Brand/Membership Application" but only takes you to the membership application. The link for "Membership Application Pg 2" gives you the code of ethics. Both of these links are found under "New Breeder Help." Applying for membership is info that pertains to anyone, not specifically breeders or those wanting to breed, so it ought to be somewhere on its own perhaps, whereas the Brand Application is something that should be listed under "New Breeder Help" but is not.

As for the registry, it would be nice to have it online for a reference only. Say I buy a kit from you and am looking over the pedigree - it would be nice to know if any of its ancestors had been registered. With the registry online, it would be simple to look for that.

 

[VolunteerChin22]

Yep totally understand that they all go against each other in the end anyways, I just like that they at least start at a point being judged against other like animals and then progress from there. I feel like that offers a cleaner, more heirarchical evaluation of the animal as a starting point when certain variables are held constant. Like it says of other animals of comparable age and gender of this color phase this is how this animal rates. Then we progress to of animals of this age and both genders of this color, this is how this animal rates, etc. until we get to of all the animals present today this is how this animal rates. With ECBC I feel like you start at of these color animals this is how this animal rates and yah we took those other variables like age and gender into consideration. Just feels like steps are skipped to me IMO. Maybe my opinion is biased since I attended several MCBA shows before an ECBC one lol.

I see value in tags - just dont really want to do it myself (seriously I am a wuss lol) and I dont feel like I am large enough for it to make a difference in organizing my herd. The show point is good - I havent brought animals in the night before so I hadnt considered that.

 

[mark miller]

For those of you interested in knowing more about the experience of going to and a show and just what it's like to be a part of helping to put on a show. We were members of the Nebraska branch ECBC for years. It then merged with Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Minnesota, and Illinois and became the Heartland branch. We typically arrive Friday night and everyone pitches in to set up the tables, show lights, chairs, and all the preparation for the show. Usually, many of us go out to dinner together and then come back to the show hall for social time. Some of my best learning experiences have been just going around and talking with other ranchers at shows when the actual show wasn't going on. We then all come in early Saturday morning and begin the process of combing and grooming the animals for the show. When the show is going on the room is quiet so the judges can concentrate and the exhibitors can hear the judges comments on each animal. We often will eat lunch all together which allows for more conversation time and then back to the remainder of the show. When the show is over, everyone is allowed to look at the animals under the show lights and see them from the judges perspectives and decide if you agree or disagree with their decisions. The winners are then announced to the crowd and awards are handed out. Many times the Mutation show follows the Standard show and usually both are completed the same day.(with the exception of Nationals which is a 2-day show). When the animals are all put away in their carriers everyone pitches in to help tear down the show room and clean up. It doesn't matter what branch or chapter your from, we helped out in Oklahoma, and Colorado, and St. Louis, and Iowa, and everywhere we attended shows. If you want to help out, everyone is really friendly, they appreciate the help, and we all work together to get things done regardless of who is hosting the show. It is a lot of fun, you get to meet some really nice people, and get an opportunity to ask questions and share stories with your piers on chinchillas. I encourage anyone interested to go and experience a show. You don't have to help or work at it, you can just come and watch. It is really up to each individual how involved you want to be, but it really is a good time for all.

 

[RDZCRanch]

The ear tags are required at sanctioned shows to prevent confusion if any animals are to get out. It's also in place because way back when, some ranchers/breeders would steal other rancher's/breeder's animals and there was no proof of who owned what chinchilla. Also keep in mind, the majority of sanctioned shows are two day events. Most of the chinchillas at these shows spend not one, but two nights in the show hall. We've had quite a few escapes at our CA shows from one chin that got determined and knocked its cage off the table in the middle of the night. The chins are always found without incident, but when there are two standards out...the tags are a huge help.

The rules that are current in the clubs are there for a reason. They aren't pointless ideas that someone had and decided to make everyone abide by. Some of the rules have just become a part of chinchilla show history and if it doesn't harm the animals or negatively affect the show, what's the point of trying to change it?

Personally, I would like to see more activity on the Empress website and more documents available on there.

 

[designer chins]

Ooo, I like this thread! I think its critical we work together to grow these organizations. In order to do that, we need to know what people want!

Any suggestions for encouraging youth participation? I recently read an article in the AKC Gazette about the success some dog clubs out West have had working hand-in-hand with 4-H kids, and that prompted me to ask what vision the chinchilla community has for encouraging its junior members? I'm working on a Chinology contest for the National show, though I've been warned there might not be many kids in attendance! What would draw in more youth?

We have creative, dedicated people in our chinchilla organizations: hopefully the current group can grow exponentially over the next decade!

 

[mishalaa]

Tab, I don't think anyone is suggesting that the ear-tagging rule be eliminated. I understand why it's in place and agree that it's a useful rule, Christy probably does too. However, for us and other small breeders, buying the tags and an applicator just so you can show one or two animals does not seem worth the expense, especially when MCBA is active in the area and does not require tags. It was enough to keep me from joining and showing in ECBC until now.

My herd has since grown and I have started tagging as of this past fall, so it's not an issue to me anymore, but probably still is for Christy and other small breeders. I know someone would have given me a spare or blank tag so that I could show, but I felt if my animal was going to have a permanent tag, I wanted it to be my tag.

 

[Riven]

Wendy, I see your point and wanted to comment on it. I think that not only youth should be a focal point. The reasoning behind this is... many people who are involved in something in their youth will get into and do it for years, but when college time comes around it's nearly impossible to take a herd with you. True that it can spark life long interest and the very dedicated will find a way to do it, I have had chins as pets while getting my first degree, and have a herd of over 100 while getting my nursing degree with a family, but I think there is a lack of focus on what I would like to call "mature" breeders who are getting in. I have a gal near me, she's older than I am, has some small grandchildren. She knows what she's getting into, she's not afraid to spend the money on quality animals, and because she is established more in life she HAS the money to spend on quality animals over say a college student paying tuition and rent, etc. A youth or college aged breeder may have issues with money, vet bills, etc. and rely on their parents to help pay for their chins, which may or may not work.

I've seen a lot of young youth breeders get in, go to shows, and even have very nice animals given to them by well established ranchers with good herds, but I rarely see this with an older person looking to get in, actually I've never seen a rancher randomly give a new animal to an older person starting in.

So I don't disagree with attracting youth breeders and exhibitors, but I think it's important to also put some focus on some mature people who are wanting to get it. A lot of times it seems that people have a lot more patience and generosity for youth.

I know that there are exceptions out there, and I want to acknowledge that there are, but statistics show that often they are not "lifers". I know lots of people who have raised rabbits and livestock for 4H, but don't own either of them even as pets as adults, and I know in the 4H groups in my area that's not an unusual trend.

I think that youth and adult groups both need to be addressed, and of course each target group would respond different to different methods.

 

[designer chins]

I agree: both should be focused on. Threads such as this can help generate ideas & feedback to encourage participation across many age ranges.:thumbsup:

 

[VolunteerChin22]

Tab, I don't think anyone is suggesting that the ear-tagging rule be eliminated. I understand why it's in place and agree that it's a useful rule, Christy probably does too. However, for us and other small breeders, buying the tags and an applicator just so you can show one or two animals does not seem worth the expense, especially when MCBA is active in the area and does not require tags. It was enough to keep me from joining and showing in ECBC until now.

My herd has since grown and I have started tagging as of this past fall, so it's not an issue to me anymore, but probably still is for Christy and other small breeders. I know someone would have given me a spare or blank tag so that I could show, but I felt if my animal was going to have a permanent tag, I wanted it to be my tag.

Yes that was my point. I never said I wanted the rule changed, in fact I said I see value in it for larger herds and at shows. The original question was what has kept you from joining and that was one of my reasons.