What could this be?

[Philogirl]

Okay, so I posted about Spike's dry skin problem awhile ago. When he went to the vet for his freak-out last month, they did two skin scrapings and did not find any mites. We did a round of Revolution, but Spike's skin is still flaking off (like big patches of skin) and he's losing about 3-4 quills a day.

What else could cause this? Winter's over, so I can't attribute it solely to the seasons now.

 

[Kalandra]

fungus, bacterial infection, dietary issue (ongoing or prior), dry air, allergy, etc.... Have you talked to your vet again about the dry skin and quill loss?

 

[imperatrix]

Hey, Lauren. Were you able to find the root cause of Spike's quill loss and dry skin? Little Bear is also experiencing unexplained quill loss and dry skin.

Here's an odd question for the forum: could water quality have anything to do with this? I know my water is pretty hard. Little Bear gets bathed with regular water, but had been drinking filtered water from our fridge up until the past week or two, when I switched him over to regular tap water due to refrigerator issue.

Could hard water cause dry skin and quill loss? Has anyone else noticed this who happens to live in an area with fairly hard water?

Thanks much---
Lisa Ann

 

[Philogirl]

We haven't figured out what the cause could be yet.

He went to the vet a few months ago because of an 18 total freak out after a bath. He was treated for mites with Revolution, and his skin started to clear up a little. His skin in the next couple of months became worse than it was before... but like the first time, there was no evidence of mites on the skin scraping.

He just went back to the vet last week and we tried some antibiotics to see if it's a secondary bacterial infection. His skin is less red and looks less irritated, but the flakiness is still there. So we're trying a low dose of ivermectin to see if that works for mites. I know everyone hates ivermectin, but we had a great success when used on the little one. My vet also gave a lower dose because of my concerns about using the shot. So we'll see how that goes. Next on the differential is a fungal infection--- we'll cross that bridge if we get to it.

As for the water, Spike hasn't had a bath in months now. I just won't risk him freaking out like that again. It took weeks for him to settle back into things--- it stressed his system out and his sleep/wake cycles and I'd rather not have him more stressed than his body is already.

Any suggestions or comments? Aside from the dangers of ivermectin?

 

[addictedtochins]

I was reminded of Spud the hedgie which I found out about on this forum or maybe the old forum. Maybe the hedgie hospital mentioned in the article can help you. It also said in another story Spud is rubbed with baby oil, maybe that can help Spike?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hedgehog-spines-making-dramatic-comeback.html

 

[Nancy]

Ivermectin can be used topically which is safer then injecting. If you have to go with ivermectin, I'd ask for topical.

 

[AlbertaGirl]

My Ronnie had terrible dry skin just like you're describing. What seemed to work best for her was a food additive I got from the vet. It was mainly fish oil with a few other things added in. I put a few drops in her food every day and that helped. I also found it helped to put some olive oil in a spritzer and just give her back a little spritz from time to time. Her skin never got completely better, but it did improve.

 

[imperatrix]

More thoughts/ponderings about dry skin and quill loss

Thanks to everyone who has responded, and especially to Philogirl for this original post.

I'm sorry, Lauren; I missed your original post about Spike's reactions to baths. From what I can gather, the poor little guy sounds like he not only dislikes the Dreaded Baff, but they legitimately traumatize him. My heart goes out to him.

Hmmm... olive oil in a spritzer bottle... that's a great idea! I've been using an oral irrigation syringe, but I'm concerned that it doesn't really cover the areas it needs to (or if it does, I wind up using too much, and then he needs another bath - and that's just not fair to subject Little Bear to that).

Speaking of spray bottles - I wonder if Spike would object to a light, very gentle "shower" with a fine-misting spray bottle? Just a little brainstorm idea to throw out there. I have no idea how effective it would be, if you even need/want that sort of suggestion.

Lauren, I'm glad to hear your vet respected your concerns about ivermectin injections and is using a lower dose. I couldn't tell from the post: did your vet still give Spike an injection, or is the lower dosage also a topical application?

I hope this round of ivermectin helps out with Spike's skin. *cross fingers*

So the antibiotic seemed to help a little, but not for the overall flakiness? Little Bear's skin hasn't ever appeared red or irritated, but it often appears quite flaky. And the quill loss is astounding. But he doesn't have any apparent bald patches, and when I look at the dropped skin flakes on dark material, I don't see movement.

I used to put a drop or two of vitamin E oil in Little Bear's food, but I stopped because it's a fat-soluble vitamin and my vet couldn't find an appropriate dosage in his exotic formulary book. I think I may switch over to the fish oil and see if he'll accept the taste of that.

Hmmm... I wonder if European hedgehogs anoint like domesticated African/Algerian hedgies anoint. If not, then the baby oil is a great idea. Otherwise, I'd be hesitant using a non-edible oil. But I'm sure St. Tiggywinkle's knows a lot more about hedgies than I do. : ) By the way, Spud is getting quills and fur back! They're still not sure what caused his problems, but they think it may have been a particularly virulent strain of sarcoptic mange. Apparently the third time was the charm treatment-wise. Poor guy! : ( http://www.sttiggywinkles.org.uk/spud_update

Well, if you've read this far, thanks for sticking with me. Thanks for all the comments, and best wishes to Spike in dealing with his skin. : )

---Lisa Ann

 

[Nancy]

When Emma had her horrid dry skin the vet recommended Hydra Pearls spray. http://www.thefind.com/pets/browse-hydra-pearls-rehydrating-spray Even though her skin and quill loss were hormonal, the Hydra Pearls worked amazing. I've used it on some of the others and it is great. Unfortunately, it is highly perfumed so is not usable on all hedgehogs.

Using oil based products is not advisable because oil clogs the pores and if the problem is bacterial or fungal, the oil will seal it into their pores.

 

[AlbertaGirl]

Using oil based products is not advisable because oil clogs the pores and if the problem is bacterial or fungal, the oil will seal it into their pores.

Thank you for pointing that out Nancy. I should have stated that I used the olive oil spritz only after it was OK'd by my vet.

 

[Philogirl]

Thanks for all the replies guys!! I've been in Europe for the past two weeks and my boyfriend has been taking good care of the little ones for me.

Apparently, the ivermectin didn't do much. The antibiotic seemed to help the most. There aren't as many big patches of dry skin coming off, the redness has subsided and he has only lost about 4 quills per week instead of every day.

The vet called my boyfriend to schedule another ivermectin shot, but I told him to cancel the appointment. Since nothing has come up on a scraping and there are no visible mites to the vet, I see no point in giving him a medication that is already risky for a condition that we have no physical evidence for.

I have a new theory on this matter though---- since Spike has historically been averse to baths, I do not bathe him very frequently. It has now been 4 months since his last full body bath (foot baths are fine). Before that, I didn't bathe him since January. Jack on the other hand gets full body baths from my boyfriend every couple of weeks. It's a bonding experience for them Anyway, Jack's skin is gorgeous... I wish my skin looked that good. I have a feeling that Spike's running/peeing/pooping simultaneously might leave a nice layer of residue on his skin that never gets washed off. So I think he might have a severe-er version of hedgie "diaper rash." I'm going to try to bathe him again, but just his butt region and see if that is okay with him.

Unfortunately, with the mealie shortage, I've been hesitant to do anything with the hedgies that they don't like (i.e. nail clipping and baths), since I have nothing to bribe them with.... fortunately, chicken still works well

Oh, almost forgot... Spike is growing quills at the same time... I could see 4 or 5 new quills growing in when I left... he's eating, drinking, running, sleeping, snuggling normally... so I don't think this is life threatening. I'm just frustrated because I just want everything to be healthy looking in my hedgies and his skin does not look healthy.

But we've ruled almost everything out--- next appointment is for fungal test. If that's not it, then I'm at a complete loss.

Thank you for all the suggestions.... what do you all think about my new theory???