watery eye, vet today-terrified

[ChilliPepper]

The metacam dosage seems awfully conservative to me. Check with your vet of course, but when we do a filing, it is .08ml of a 1.5 mg/ml solution 2x a day for a week, then we drop it to half that the second week, sooner if he is acting well and eating on his own. I don't know what the implication of the heart murmur would be for his pain med dosage, that may be why the dosage is so low.

 

[ticklechin]

Metecam dose is based on weight, its not a set dose for every chin.

 

[ChilliPepper]

Thanks Dawn. Chilli is a small guy, at his lowest he was 550g. The dosage has always been the same, even when he was at 625ish. I didn't see a weight for Fluke's boy. I just thought it might be worth a call to see if a bit more pain management might help.

 

[Claire D]

I've just been reading through your thread & wanted to pick up on a few things. Dawn has given you some excellent advice which I totally agree with - I just want to add some further thoughts.

It's clear from your posts that you are very attached to your little chin & want to do everything to keep him alive but, as Dawn has already pointed out, a serious heart murmur & tooth problems are not a good combination. Treating a murmur &/or heart failure can be difficult. Treating tooth problems on top makes that doubly so .... & it is also true the other way around (treating tooth problems when a chin has a heart murmur of significance).

Is it possible for you to post photos of the xrays? That will help us give you more specific help/advice if we can.

I would follow Dawn's advice & speak to your vet about adding in Flagyl. I would also ask what they think the outcomes are going to be for your chin if they pull his tooth - movement of the other teeth & pockets of infection are both possible with the treatment your vet is suggesting. Post-extraction you will have to put a lot of time & effort in trying to get your chin eating again.

Sadly removing a tooth is not a guarantee of success & you will have to be realistic about the outcomes. Whilst most people on this forum can certainly appreciate that you don't want to lose the little chap, the sad reality is that tooth problems have no cure & although you may be able to manage his condition for a period of time, he will succumb to the condition.

What is important is the chin's quality of life & whether they are recovering between dental ops.

 

[fluke]

his condition is an infection. he did not see root elongation. i know that tooth extraction has some serious implications, but as the vet said and dawn reiterated, the infection will be there until the tooth is gone. It doesn't seem like leaving the tooth is an option at all. I dont know if the other teeth will move, the problem is in the very back molar on his upper right. But again..tooth has to go.

I didn't get a copy of the xrays but I'll do that when i go back in two weeks. i don't know about the pain meds, Buckie fluctuates between 650 and 670 grams. I assume that was taken into account when calculating the dosage. I'm not sure hw much pain he's in. He chewed on some apple wood last night (obvously with his front teeth but still).

i know i'll probably be handfeeding him for a while. That's ok. I'm not worried about it. And he has had tooth filings before, (they will be more frequent after the tooth extraction to keep the opposing tooth in check) but his recovery from them has always been within a few hours.

i realize there's no guarantee and the heart murmur just stacks the odds against a little higher, but it's not like i'm just going to give up because of that. and right now, not having the tooth removed so that the infection can be taken care of seems a lot more like a death sentence then otherwise.

 

[fluke]

i know the odds of crappy but...there is no way to definitely say that he won't get better. maybe the other teeth won't shift (i would imagine shift would be more likely if the one to be removed were in the front or between others, but it isn't) maybe the antibiotics will knock the infection out just fine, and maybe all we have to worry about in the future are filings of the other tooth. but yes, i understand the obstacles.....i know it may become necessary to make the hard decision, but not yet. so I'm going to focus on getting him well instead of on putting him down.

 

[fluke]

ghetto critical care FAIL!! so instead of the moistened food getting squeezed thru the syringe, it's only squeezing out the water. is there something else to add to it to change the consistency. it's just like wringing out the food part.

 

[fluke]

i'm traveling to see my grandparents this weekend. wish i didnt have to now that buckie's sick, but gotta. either way, I'm currently in Memphis, TN. Will be til about 1pm tomorrow. Afraid im going to run out of critical care before I get back (and get the CC i ordered in the mail). Going to call all the vets in town tomorrow to try to find it.

Anyone on here from Memphis and know a place that sells CC??
Also, if i can't find it, how do I get the regular food to work. Should I mix his ground up food with critical care?

 

[ChilliPepper]

Fluke, when I needed to stretch my CC, I did a half pellet/half CC mix. The CC has some sort of binding agent in it. I found a vet in cordova called vet pets animal hospital. They carry CC. I don't know where you are staying. Good luck!

 

[Mt. Zion Chins]

The CC will be like the ground pellets - you need to add more water and mix thoroughly so it is like pudding - add some pumpkin to it. Make sure the pumpkin is pure pumpkin and not the stuff that has spices in it

 

[fluke]

thanks for checking. i think vet pets is technically now avian & exotic vet hospital. on the phone with them now about CC. strange that it's so hard to find this stuff. I've already called like 5 vets including ones that treat exotics.

 

[fluke]

ok i really really hope i either have enough or mixing with pellets works cuz i got nothing.

 

[fluke]

alright. just mixed up a batch of food for the road. mixed CC and ground up pellets. It does seem to work in the syringe. Thank you thank you!! I was definitely concerned about running out. I think he's thinking about eating again. I've seen him take a few bites of hay, but until I see him really eating, im gonna continue

 

[ChilliPepper]

Vets from a rabbit rescue in Memphis- don't know if you tried these.
Bartlett

Dr. Kelly Green
Raleigh Bartlett Animal Hospital
901-388-9550

Collierville

Dr. Ralph Pope
All Creatures Animal Hospital
901-853-4220
Dr. Shannon McGhee
Collierville Animal Hospital
901-853-8519

Memphis -- East

Dr. Steve Snow
Berclair Animal Hospital
901-685-8204
Dr. Chris Faircloth
Eastwood Animal Hospital
901-761-0930

 

[fluke]

yea. i tried one of em. think the CC i have will last if i mix it with his food so im not too terribly worried. also have a pound of it on the way in the mail. thanks i really appreciate your help. may end up needing to give em a call anyway.

 

[ChilliPepper]

Was thinking about you two. How's he doing?

 

[Claire D]

i know the odds of crappy but...there is no way to definitely say that he won't get better. maybe the other teeth won't shift (i would imagine shift would be more likely if the one to be removed were in the front or between others, but it isn't) maybe the antibiotics will knock the infection out just fine, and maybe all we have to worry about in the future are filings of the other tooth. but yes, i understand the obstacles.....i know it may become necessary to make the hard decision, but not yet. so I'm going to focus on getting him well instead of on putting him down.

his condition is an infection. he did not see root elongation. i know that tooth extraction has some serious implications, but as the vet said and dawn reiterated, the infection will be there until the tooth is gone. It doesn't seem like leaving the tooth is an option at all. I dont know if the other teeth will move, the problem is in the very back molar on his upper right. But again..tooth has to go.

I didn't get a copy of the xrays but I'll do that when i go back in two weeks. i don't know about the pain meds, Buckie fluctuates between 650 and 670 grams. I assume that was taken into account when calculating the dosage. I'm not sure hw much pain he's in. He chewed on some apple wood last night (obvously with his front teeth but still).

i know i'll probably be handfeeding him for a while. That's ok. I'm not worried about it. And he has had tooth filings before, (they will be more frequent after the tooth extraction to keep the opposing tooth in check) but his recovery from them has always been within a few hours.

i realize there's no guarantee and the heart murmur just stacks the odds against a little higher, but it's not like i'm just going to give up because of that. and right now, not having the tooth removed so that the infection can be taken care of seems a lot more like a death sentence then otherwise.

I'm going to be honest & say that (in my opinion) you're deluding yourself if you think there is a cure to be had for your chinchilla. I know that probably sounds harsh but it's the truth. Dental problems cannot be cured but some (not all!) can be managed for an indeterminate period of time. For some chins that is years (e.g little/no root elongation, no long-term infection) & some for only a few weeks. Once you start messing with the teeth there is only one outcome.

The teeth will move in the jaw once the affected tooth is removed - that's basic anatomy & physiology. Thus he will continue to need frequent dentals which are a risk because of the murmur ........

Please be assured, I'm not suggesting you put your chin to sleep immediately but I am suggesting you need to take a realistic look at the prognosis for him.

Have you talked to your vet about Flagyl yet?

 

[fluke]

update

well, its been a little over a week since the vet. Buckie started eating again by himself on monday. He seems back to his normal self and excited about it. He has been like nonstop popcorning. I havent talked to the vet about Flagyl yet because we still have to get the tooth out.

i understand the potential for things to go downhill. i really do. but again...im not going to consider putting him down until we get to the point where his quality of life is seriously affected. if we get there, i will do the right thing. So while I know you're just trying to make sure I'm being realistic, I'd honestly appreciate if you'd stop Claire. No offense, seriously. But I'm hoping for the best. Am i going to put my boy through unnecessary and ineffective treatment if he's suffering? Absolutely not. But we are NOT. THERE. YET. ok?
the first like 9 months he was at the petstore where i worked, i couldnt even take him home because he was so sick. NO ONE thought he was going to live. the vet wasnt even optimistic. he went from a horrific eye infection that left him blind in one eye (which has since gotten better--think the left over fluids there finally were reabsorbed) to random abscesses on his back to a bad respiratory infection. and he was scrawny and underweight. after finally convincing the corporate people to let me take him home because he was likely going to die anyway, I got him. A month later he was healthy, happy, putting on weight, and even his fur was getting fluffier. He's beaten the odds before. Not saying this time we'll be so lucky but im certainly not giving up until he does.
i'm not stupid, and im not in denial.

 

[mishellyshel]

glad he is doing better. my chin who was diagnosed with malo several years ago lost a tooth and he has been ok since then. at one point i thought there was no way to save him and i got a lot of similar advice as to PTS but i was determined like you and that was almost 3 years ago and richie is still with me. but you do have to understand, the people who are commenting are only going on what you are saying. Buckie isnt in front of them and they are not able to read his medical records, so the advice is very generalized.

two things that i didnt read mentioned that you can try are:
1. Essentials for Life from www.fuzzieskingdom.com is much more palatable than the critical care. you can also stretch that by mixing with crushed pellet. may be a good idea to get a bag to keep on hand.

2. Beaphar plus pellets. they are very expensive but the one pellet that my malo and other PITA chins will eat. i have seen increased weights on every single chin that i have provided these pellets to. i believe i get them from: www.partnerspets.com they are overseas, so it takes a while to get the product. but well worth it. do a search and you can read up on it.

 

[Claire D]

Fluke, re-read my post.
Have I told you to put your chin down? No, I have not.
Have I said you're putting him through unnecessary treatment? No, I have not.
Have I called you stupid or said you are in denial? No, I have not.
You have misread my posts.

I have dealt with many chins over the years with tooth problems, & like Dawn, I have learned the hard way. I've had chins live for years with tooth problems & also had chins who lived very short lives with tooth problems. If you don't want to take on board what has actually been said in my posts that's fine but I'm talking from experience, just as Dawn has.
Now I'm going to bow out of the thread & leave you to it as requested.