Trying to get Non-proven Females to Breed

[mark miller]

This thread was not intended to be a promotion for Source. It may help increase production but it obviously doesn't work on all breeders or I wouldn't had have to start this thread. It is not a miracle breeding pill and results from the breeders I've talked to that are using it have varied. Getting back to the topic, so far colony breeding, 1 on 1 pair mating, swabbing females, and nutritional flushing (which I'm not familiar with what that is). I've heard of putting the females on just hay and water for a period but, not sure if that's the same as "nutritional flushing". Are there any other proven successful methods that any of you have used to get your non-proven females to breed?

 

[mark miller]

Has anyone ever tried fertility drugs with chinchillas? I have all kinds of printed literature on chinchillas from the last 50 years. In one of the articles I have from 1968 at a chin ranch called West Division in Omaha, Ne they took 20 non-proven breeders all different ages and injected them with hormones, within 1 year 19 were bred or had littered. They did not tell what hormone was given and just said they were very excited with the results and were continuing their experimentation. I have friends in the chin business that have the equipment and have been doing artificial insemination since the early 1970's. This is not an option for me though, but I'm very interested to know and research the drugs they used to get the females to coordinate their ovulation cycles in conjunction with the AI method. I find all of this research fascinating and hope to find something that might work currently for me with my 6 non-proven girls.

 

[ticklechin]

But what acutally happens to the chins body when given seaweed that makes more kits? And what happens to males if they eat it?

 

[Mt. Zion Chins]

yes - very interesting topic. I think I will hold off until I know a lot more about the seaweed. However I do plan to swab a couple of females that are 'driving me crazy'

 

[Megan]

But what acutally happens to the chins body when given seaweed that makes more kits? And what happens to males if they eat it?

I agree... What happens as the females age? Does it take the toll on the females, and they don't have as long of a breeding life?

I find it pretty scary how many people rushed to get in on this idea. If you are just a "pet" or "hobby breeder who isn't pelting..do you really want THAT many kits in a market where pet animals are barely selling?

 

[Mt. Zion Chins]

I agree with Megan. However I did want the facts about it. Right now I am lucky to most of my females produce the 'right amount of kits' - no quads. By the way, I thought it was funny. One of the females that has 'been driving me crazy' (nothing out of her for at least 2 years) just now delivered trips

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

I wouldn't jump on the bandwagon on using Source but I do find it interesting and was toying with the idea with one of my females who only produces 1 kit a litter.

 

[mark miller]

No one knows exactly what benefits or negatives are associated with the seaweed use. It has already been stated that only a few breeders have been using it for only a couple years with varied results. It has also been stated to do research and use very small amounts (1 pellet per day) with your breeders. If you have long term concerns, don't use it. Not a lot of good research has been compiled about chinchilla reproduction. Many things are still in the test and experimental stages. Most of this information is intended for the experienced breeders of quality chinchillas that are willing and able to take a small test group of animals and conduct their own experiment with different methods. Obviously, if you don't have the cagespace available or the means to distribute more babies you shouldn't be attempting to produce more.

 

[starleomach]

If you are just giving it to the females that have not produced, I don't see the issues. I have a champion white female paired with a top standard male and nothing. The male is proven several times over, in this case I will give the female some and see.... I can see an issue if you are trying to mass produce kits, but in trying it with a female or two that all else has failed...

 

[Cuddlebug]

After reading more on this, I will be waiting for more information before making my decision. Additionally, I would only be using it for one of my girls who is a slow breeder. I already have her in a colony with a male that is a great breeder and another female that gets pregnant every time I blink.

 

[tunes]

I have a female here who was given hormones to help her produce more kits. Now, keep in mind I did not do it, and I did not have first hand knowledge of it. This came to me (SURPRISE) after I bought her. I was not told originally that she had to be kept completely away from other females (like, not even in the same room kinda deal) or she would kill all her kits. I was told this by a friend of the person who sold her to me. I was a nervous wreck waiting for whatever would happen to happen, because she conceived pretty quickly after I got her. Thankfully, I never had an issue here. It had been a little while since she had littered and I moved her out of the breeding room, into a separate room, and found her to be an awesome mom and an awesome foster mom. She's the best I've got. I spoke to several people (vets and breeders) about this and they felt that the hormone had finally worked it's way out of her system, allowing her to go back to what she would have normally been. So pretty much, I dodged a bullet.

So, from my limited exposure to hormone usage in chins, my answer would be nooooo freaking way. I also have plenty of kits born each year, so I really don't feel a need to change the way nature works and have better living through chemicals. If they give birth, they give birth. If they don't, sometimes life sucks, but oh well.

 

[ticklechin]

This reminds me of the calf manna fad, no research, hobby breeders and the such got on the band wagon because everyone was doing it and then the bust, dead females from dead big kits. With the market and economy they way it is I don't see the need for mass kit production. Get another female that produces.

 

[mark miller]

Thanks for the sharing your experience Peggy. I'm smart enough and experienced enough to know that shooting up all my females with hormones would be a really stupid thing to do. However, I too had the "oh well, some just don't breed" attitude when we had 150 breeding females. Now, I have only about 20 of my original bloodline females, with no way of replacing or re-creating those lines if I don't get these to breed. I'm gathering all the good information I can and exploring every option out there to make sure I've done all I could do and tried everything to get the few non-proven females proven. I'm willing to try desperate measures with these select few even if success is limited to only 1 or 2 of them, it will be worth my efforts. At some point, when I feel I've tried what I can, I may have to give up on a couple of them. In my current situation, with the small number of breeders that I have it's easy to spend more time and give more attention to a small group for a test study then what a larger breeder could or would do. I was PM'd by a member of this forum that had tried hormone treatments in the past with their chins but did not want to post on this thread for fear of being criticized and ridiculed by other members. We all learn by others sharing their experiences and many times it's by trial and error. The information and experiences shared benefits all of us in the end and isn't that the purpose of this forum. I love chinchillas, I love working with chinchillas. I love learning more about them everyday and I enjoy helping others with their chins achieve their desired goals for them. I do this by sharing my knowledge and experience with everyone.

 

[designer chins]

Well stated, Mark, thank you!

I may be a small breeder, but I hardly "jump on the bandwagon" or do something because it is the current fad. I research things in depth before implementing any changes within my herd, and try to make the most logical, appropriate choice for my situation & my animals. I hope everyone does, but I'm realistic enough to know that isn't the case. I obtained my animal science degree in college learning all that I could at the time on animal nutrition, genetics, reproduction, etc. and I'm passionate about ongoing education with respect to my animals. I appreciate the opportunities this forum provides for people to discuss topics relevant to their herd, though I hesitate to participate in some threads at times because of misconceptions or misinterpretations. I guess I have to get over that!

 

[ticklechin]

If this was a "professional" breeder forum where everyone was on the same page then talk of this type could be productive, problem is we have breeders here who are sub-standard and just spit out kits left and right with no regards to anything, just making kits to sell as fast and as many as possible, give them any inkling of how to make more babies fast and they will be all over it.

 

[mark miller]

None of us were "Professional Breeders" when we started out. Every top chinchilla breeder has a story about how they got started and what they got their first chin for. My Grandfather had a herd of 800 chinchillas and my Father had over 100 from the time I was born. I got my first chin of my own when I was 9. It was a white mosaic female that couldn't be used for breeding because she had watery eyes and suspected teeth problems. She was my pet, I played with her everyday. Eventually, I started getting culled out females from Grandpa and started breeding. I had no idea what I was doing, I just wanted babies. It didn't take me long to realize I had a real passion for them. I started memorizing pedigree's and reading about genetics and asking questions from other successful breeders that were friends of Dad and Grandpa. I was hooked, and I've continued to learn more about them all my life. Some of these so called "Backyard Breeders" may become the next Ralph Shoots or Vin Somavia of the chinchilla world. Most won't, they'll eventually figure out they're not going to get rich off raising chins, they take up too much time, they cost too much, etc. and they'll get rid of them. Obviously, we cant control what everyone does with the information they get from this forum just like we can't control what they do with their animals. But, if this information helps 1 or 20 new owners or breeders of chinchillas then it's worth it. We all have chinchillas for different reasons and we all deserve to learn more about them from the knowledge and experiences of all our forum members.

 

[EMSChins]

Well said. I am here to learn from everyone everything that I possibly can...as we all know it is not easy to get printed, accurate, information on chinchillas so all we have is each other. It is because of several forum members here that I was able to save a chins life. There are other forum members that post and make me shake my head in disbelief.

I look forward to learning more but I must admit that there have been several times that I have been afraid to post or reply worrying that I might get "jumped on". I am intrigued by this thread - not because I want to rush out and put all of my females on these supplements but because some day in the future if I have a problem with a breeder, I can look back at this thread and see what has and has not worked for others. It would then be up to me to weed through the information and do the research to see what will work for my particular situation. There is good and bad in all of the information that we receive. I would like to see knowledgeable, responsible people continue to post on this site.

 

[ticklechin]

No one knows exactly what benefits or negatives are associated with the seaweed use. It has already been stated that only a few breeders have been using it for only a couple years with varied results. It has also been stated to do research and use very small amounts (1 pellet per day) with your breeders. If you have long term concerns, don't use it. Not a lot of good research has been compiled about chinchilla reproduction. Many things are still in the test and experimental stages. Most of this information is intended for the experienced breeders of quality chinchillas that are willing and able to take a small test group of animals and conduct their own experiment with different methods. Obviously, if you don't have the cagespace available or the means to distribute more babies you shouldn't be attempting to produce more.

So that was my point that you stated-this information is for experienced breeders of quality chinchillas, I stated it as professional breeders, those that know what they are doing and can tell if there is trouble-some of the byb's here can't spell breeder nor know what color their kits are, IMO the info on this product, that is untested and the mechanism it has that makes more kits is unknown is just asking for trouble.

 

[Twilight Chinchillas]

Very good thread! I have a couple females, that I can not for the life of me get to produce, so therefore they will remain eye candy....
I do have to say one of the things that sparked my interest with the chins, was that there is some care and concern when it comes to herd improvement, and some thought about quality control (not breeding chins with malo etc) There is of course always going to be those that keep cranking out babies, even if they have room constraints, or if there are already an abundance of chins in need of good homes, who have a "fire" sale to clear out the babies to make room for more.

 

[tunes]

I just want to say real quick, before this turns into a whine fest about how people are mean, and people won't post because people are mean and they get jumped on, yada yada, please, don't go down this road. Seriously, all it takes is one person and then every person on the planet jumps in with their story about how not everybody gave them a hugfest when their chin was attacked by their ferret while they were out to play together. Let's stick to the topic at hand, and yes, it is an interesting thread.

Mark, I know of one large breeder who last I knew used hormones. I don't know how it's working out for them though. I also understand what you are saying about having less animals and needing them to produce. I just want to state, again, that "personally" I am not interested in using hormones after hearing what my girl here did to her kits after being injected with them.