Tradition and Issues?

[Megan]

There was a face book post by a fellow breeder about tradition products.

In the past year I've noted : A decrease in kits being born. This COULD be due to the fact that my animals are getting older, and they are slowing down. I've also seen an INCREASE in still-born kits. Apparently tradition added seaweed to their ingredients... I also just don't think their coats appear as nice(unless this is my imagination) I *DID* relocate the herd, but this was in 2011-- and I noted the problems starting in 2012. I don't think the herd moving is part of the problem?

Is anyone else having issues and feed tradition?

 

[MyzarandGemma]

I use Tradition and my babies' coats are beautiful and they seem healthy as can be.

I don't breed so I don't know anything about babies being born, etc. However, as a nurse, I would think that chinchillas, like all animals, have an increased risk of birth complications with age. I would think 5 and under to be considered the "30's and under" sort of group with many live, healthy births, with risks going up from there. But I don't know of course, not being a vet. I can only guess.

 

[Stackie]

I don't breed so I don't have any input on the kit production but I started feeding Tradition since I moved up to Indy a few years ago. Noticed my chins slowly eating less and less of it about a year ago. Got to the point where most of them were digging in their food bowls and wasting feed more than eating it. I thought a few of my chins were looking a little more scraggly but it might have been my imagination. I tried storing it differently thinking it was going stale, but it didn't change anything.

I had one chin that was slowly losing 10 or so grams a month- he lost about 60 grams when I finally decided to switch - but since switching feed he is back up to his normal weight.

I've been feeding Manna Pro Sho for about 6 months now and they have been eating more and wasting less.

Wasn't sure if it was just something with my mill or if anyone else was having issues. I was pretty upset because they have always done well on Tradition in the past and I can get it from a feed store about 10 miles from here. I hate to keep switching them. *sigh*

 

[EMSChins]

I have never used Tradition but recently changed my feed to Manna Pro Sho and I am very happy with it!

 

[AZChins]

You're at the mercy of the mill with some of these feeds, well, most of the feeds. Some chins will do great on a feed and others won't, it has to do with changes in ingredients and the mills. This breeder needs to complain to the mill. Older chins should not mean an increase in still births! That's not normal or to be expected. In fact, birthing complications seem to go down with the age and experience level of mama chins. I have far more problems with younger and first time mothers than the older ones.

This definitely could be feed related, you should have your friend call the mill and ask about everything. Old ingredients, substitutions, etc can cause a lot of issues with chins.

 

[Sandi]

I'm a pet owner only. I have 11 boys currently on Tradition. Some weren't perfect to begin with but all of my boys look and are doing great on Tradition now. I did notice when the feed change happened a little over a year ago that some did not transition well to the new formula. I wasn't sure if I was going to continue with Tradition if that kept up, but I stuck with it and now they are doing really well.

I do have the nutrition/ingredient label from before the formula change as well as the current on side by side below.

 

[Pookinaround]

I have never used Tradition but recently changed my feed to Manna Pro Sho and I am very happy with it!

ME TOO!!!! My chins seem to really like it.

 

[Pookinaround]

You're at the mercy of the mill with some of these feeds, well, most of the feeds. Some chins will do great on a feed and others won't, it has to do with changes in ingredients and the mills. This breeder needs to complain to the mill. Older chins should not mean an increase in still births! That's not normal or to be expected. In fact, birthing complications seem to go down with the age and experience level of mama chins. I have far more problems with younger and first time mothers than the older ones.

This definitely could be feed related, you should have your friend call the mill and ask about everything. Old ingredients, substitutions, etc can cause a lot of issues with chins.

I strongly agree but here is the problem with that...no Mill is going to admit fault or tell you this or that about their production methods. I do agree that the Mill itself could very well be the culprit but actually proving it beyond a shadow of a doubt is the hard part. You would first hear a whole slew of excuses as to why the food is not to blame for the problems....it is a shame too!

 

[AZChins]

They won't admit to a problem, but they will look into it. They don't want to lose a customer! It's always important to complain and show concern if there is an issue with feed...you definitely don't want the issue to be ongoing for longer than it has to be.

 

[Pookinaround]

They won't admit to a problem, but they will look into it. They don't want to lose a customer! It's always important to complain and show concern if there is an issue with feed...you definitely don't want the issue to be ongoing for longer than it has to be.

Absolutely! I just wish all sellers felt that way about not wanting to loose customers...unfortunately that isn't always the case...but in an ideal world yes you are absolutely right!!!

 

[Megan]

I get my feed from the mill in lancaster, but it is shipped in when I order from the Ohio mill-- same place Ryersons gets theirs from. I am the one with the issue-- but saw another breeder stating issues awhile back.

I have seen manna pro pro at tsc, I may see if they can get me the sho. I have not had a problem with older breeders before, and usually after a break they are fine to go in. I am finding several months off and they still have not fully recovered. I really think they are missing something.

Sandi-- I'll have to take a closer look at the changes. My mill never even told me it changed its a shame as I have been using tradition for most Of the 12 years I've had chins.

 

[Pookinaround]

I get Manna Pro Sho from TSC so it shouldn't be a problem getting it...best of luck to you!

 

[Megan]

Glad to hear you get it from TSC! I will head over today and see what they say. I still have about 10 bags of Tradition left, but it won't hurt to start looking into ordering through them.

 

[Kylelemler]

We feed tradition and haven't had any irregular problems, only with supply. Seems like every other time I go to get it from my supplier they say the mill shorted them bags and don't have any and I have to go back in a day or two to get it. I don't know what the problem is....maybe too large of a supply going up north into Michigan and not leaving me with any (just kidding Randy, really).

 

[Becky]

I order Tradition a ton at a time. It takes about 10 days for it to be freshly milled and then it is delivered (and stacked in my barn and shed!). I've never had issues with it.

 

[Pookinaround]

You'll have to let us know if you see an improvement after you switch...I know I did...

 

[Spoof]

You're at the mercy of the mill with some of these feeds, well, most of the feeds.

This is really it. Ingredients also change from area to area and with the exception to California they don't need to state it on the tag, just the nutrient amounts. You can get 12% protein from crude oil (the stuff your car runs on) so the nutrient amounts mean nothing unless you know where it is coming from.

I switched back to Manna Show Pro in January and thankfully it looks like my litters are back to normal. Chins are doing well, eating more. Will know more as my baby cycle is about to start again soon.

I expect production to slow down and I suspect that while the seaweed does give them a temporary boost it causes a host of other issues as well, notably an increased stillborn rate.

 

[Brittany]

Sandi-- I'll have to take a closer look at the changes. My mill never even told me it changed its a shame as I have been using tradition for most Of the 12 years I've had chins.

Oxbow changed their formula about 3 years ago, although to this day they won't admit to it. That was the start of all sorts of dietary issues for one of my chins. So I can sympahize with anyone dealing with this now.

I have two pet chins currently on Tradition, and they're doing pretty well. One of them has dropped 20g since december, but is leveling out. I'm not concerned enough to change at this point. @Stackie- was Moose having trouble? It's his brother that dropped a bit of weight.

 

[Dreamlite]

My issue right now is finding a reliable supplier of any feed. All the stores around here will carry a brand for 2 or 3 months then discontinue it and force me to switch to a new food. Is there a complete list of all rabbit safe pellets anywhere? I know manna pro show is good but is the pro series any good? Or any other brands? I'm currently using the purina rabbit show but am concerned they may stop carrying that as well.

 

[chechinchillas]

Spoof,
Why would seaweed cause an increase in the stillborn rate? What other issues can it cause?