Too much protein???

[shuboyje]

This is true in theory, but in the real world MOST long time breeders, especially those who have pelted at some point, know worlds more about chinchilla anatomy and pathology then MOST vet's do. There are several ranchers who are vet's and were even more in the past. Performing Necropsies has been a common topic of seminars probably as long as chins have been on ranches and therefore many ranchers have been taught what to look for, and have a resource(the person who taught them) to contact when they have questions.

Is your mentor a veterinarian? Does she have any pathology experience? What are her qualifications for being able to perform a necropsy and give educated findings? Were samples sent to a lab for analysis? Necropsies should be performed by professionals who have been trained to know what they are looking at and for. Someone who is able to look at test results and correctly interpret the results. Unless it was something obvious like something ruptured or a huge tumor, anything a novice tells you will be supposition and guessing.

 

[Kansas City Chinchillas]

Well said Jeff!

 

[menagerie]

This is true in theory, but in the real world MOST long time breeders, especially those who have pelted at some point, know worlds more about chinchilla anatomy and pathology then MOST vet's do. There are several ranchers who are vet's and were even more in the past. Performing Necropsies has been a common topic of seminars probably as long as chins have been on ranches and therefore many ranchers have been taught what to look for, and have a resource(the person who taught them) to contact when they have questions.

Do you know for a fact that the mentor who did the necropsy is one of those people who you are talking about? Is she a long time breeder who has pelted at some point or had years of veterinary experience? Most breeders on this forum don't fall into that category. Therefore, you're just muddying up the discussion and making excuses for people who don't know what they're doing to try to practice medicine or diagnose through necropsy.

Just because someone has been to a necropsy seminar doesn't mean they know crap about what they are actually seeing. At these seminars does everyone get their own animal to necropsy? Do you get hands on practice or is it all theory and this is what normal looks like?

 

[jmdebb]

I know there were questions in here about the person that did the necropsy, but I can't talk about her, no offense to anyone, or none to her. But I do appreciate everyone's input.

I think I've decided to stop using the Mazuri so if anyone sells a better food that isn't expensive please pm me and let me know how much for how much?

I usually spent $12 on 25lbs of Maruzi from a feed store, and at the pet store they want like $12 for 5 lbs [for Oxbow Chinchilla Delux] and I can't afford that with four chins.

Jean
Thanks again all!!

 

[Snickers]

Google Purina Rabbit and towards the bottom left hand there is a place you put your zip code for the nearest dealer.

 

[Rickman]

And the store you're buying the Oxbow from is making a fortune!
I was paying $14.25 a bag for Tradition recently, and the mill date was 9 days before I got it!! 50 POUND BAGS!!

 

[shuboyje]

Obviously I don't know that. But in the same line do you know how much experience each and every vet in her area has with chins? For instance I know for a fact that the biggest exotic specialist in the Detroit area does Necropsies on chins for free to gain experience they otherwise wouldn't get. They have told me personally that they get so little chance to get inside of chins, and have so little knowledge of them hands on that every bit helps. Now if this is the biggest exotic specialist with 2 locations in a metropolitan area of 4 million people, imagine the hands on experience other vets must have? None comes to mind.

Now compare that to a rancher who is also a vet who necropsies every animal they pelt. These ranchers hold THOUSANDS of necropsies in their experience as they teach others how to perform them and what to look for. Yellow fat has been a problem in chins for a long time, and was the first thing I was taught to look for by such an individual.

So although I do not know that this is the case with her "mentor", it certainly could be, and I would be the last person to imply a vet would have done a better or more accurate job.

There are certainly two camps in the chinchilla community, those who think vets are the be all end all, and those like myself who feel they lack the experience and firsthand knowledge that can be provided by many long time breeders. That difference is really what this comes down to. It's nothing new, and this won't be the last time it comes up.

Do you know for a fact that the mentor who did the necropsy is one of those people who you are talking about? Is she a long time breeder who has pelted at some point or had years of veterinary experience? Most breeders on this forum don't fall into that category. Therefore, you're just muddying up the discussion and making excuses for people who don't know what they're doing to try to practice medicine or diagnose through necropsy.

Just because someone has been to a necropsy seminar doesn't mean they know crap about what they are actually seeing. At these seminars does everyone get their own animal to necropsy? Do you get hands on practice or is it all theory and this is what normal looks like?

 

[jmdebb]

I've been noticing that alot of people do use PANR, i never knew it was rabbit food [never knew what PANR stood for], but i will do a search on it, thanks again.


Yes RIck, the store that sells it for that cost is making a fortune, I know they have to make money, but when they ripp you off that's another story.

Jean

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

I'm with you Jeff.

I know for a fact that this particular "mentor" Jean is talking about is very knowledgable and has stood by ranchers in hands on learning. This person is far from being dumb.

Vets are far from the be all end all like Jeff said. I would take advice from ranchers over my husband in some cases. In fact-I personally have seen the notes they get from vet school. They are crap and half was misinformation in regards to chinchillas. Vets would do very well listening to long time ranchers. Ranchers know their animals.

Jean-it's not uncommon for chinchillas who are not eating well or are off feed to show signs of fatty liver to any extent. It is not the primary cause of death. In your case-I was told it was very obvious what happened. Probably didn't need to open her up to tell.

 

[jmdebb]

I'm with you Jeff.

I know for a fact that this particular "mentor" Jean is talking about is very knowledgable and has stood by ranchers in hands on learning. This person is far from being dumb.

Vets are far from the be all end all like Jeff said. I would take advice from ranchers over my husband in some cases. In fact-I personally have seen the notes they get from vet school. They are crap and half was misinformation in regards to chinchillas. Vets would do very well listening to long time ranchers. Ranchers know their animals.

Jean-it's not uncommon for chinchillas who are not eating well or are off feed to show signs of fatty liver to any extent. It is not the primary cause of death. In your case-I was told it was very obvious what happened. Probably didn't need to open her up to tell.

I know that's not why she died, I stated that in the first post. But I was just wondering because like I said, the liver problems were seen, and I just don't want to take chances with my other chins so that's why I was asking about the food. Like I said, I know alot of people use Mazuri, but didn't want to take the chance of a food with too high a protein content, and from the color of their poohs, I have learned that [from someone else] not to use the Mazuri, their poohs are too dark which is a sign of too much protein, so I am switching off the Mazuri.

Jean

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

Higher protein diets will not cause liver problems per my husband ( who is a vet and treats exotics). Would I feed Mazuri-no. But it's not because of the liver issues you are associating with it. It is because-overall it is too much protein. They don't need that high of a protein diet. Jean I am betting your chinchilla was not eating well leaving her not very strong to carry her pregnancy and having a normal delivery. The liver issue is a coincidence and personally I would not be overly concerned. Poor quality diets such as Kaytee-sure that can cause liver issues-it's not because of the protein in it though. It just plain not balanced properly for a chinchilla.

 

[jmdebb]

Higher protein diets will not cause liver problems per my husband ( who is a vet and treats exotics). Would I feed Mazuri-no. But it's not because of the liver issues you are associating with it. It is because-overall it is too much protein. They don't need that high of a protein diet. Jean I am betting your chinchilla was not eating well leaving her not very strong to carry her pregnancy and having a normal delivery. The liver issue is a coincidence and personally I would not be overly concerned. Poor quality diets such as Kaytee-sure that can cause liver issues-it's not because of the protein in it though. It just plain not balanced properly for a chinchilla.

I'm sure you are just trying to help, but I didn't say why she died for a personal reason, so THANK YOU for writing it down in your post. I could go on, but I won't be that way.

Mods please close this thread.

 

[tunes]

I will close the thread Jean, but is it a secret that you're breeding?

As I said above, and I do agree with Jessica, I think liver issue is just incidental to the underlying problem and the only way to know for sure would be to have sent out the liver and any other lab work for pathology. Just looking is fine, but it doesn't necessarily tell you everything that's going on. You've latched onto the liver (not saying that in a bad way) as being the issue, therefore high protein. I highly doubt that is what killed her.