To put to sleep or not?

[ErinsChins]

I had to (unexpectidely) go to the vet today for one of my girls drooling. I felt for bumps and man is it bad. She had been losing weight and I just said, man, I have to go NOW. Well, I feel terrible. Her teeth are very bad. I attached an x ray and need advice. Money is not an issue, quality of life is. I have more x rays (7) but she did not burn them (oops?) I will try to get them as well. I have cc and metacam. I need advice.

 

[ticklechin]

They look real bad to me from the quality provided. If it is as bad as I think it is there is not much that can be done with that degree of elongation.

 

[SCchin]

Hi Erin,
You have my daughter's name and age. Her chin is having the same problems, but when we took him to the vet, his tongue was trapped.

Did the vet trim her teeth, and make sure everything in her mouth was fine? We are going to give ours a chance with teeth that are fixed. If he continues having problems after he recovers from the trim, then we will re-evaluate.

 

[Stackie]

Hi Erin,
You have my daughter's name and age. Her chin is having the same problems, but when we took him to the vet, his tongue was trapped.

Did the vet trim her teeth, and make sure everything in her mouth was fine? We are going to give ours a chance with teeth that are fixed. If he continues having problems after he recovers from the trim, then we will re-evaluate.

Trimming the teeth in this case is not going to help. The roots are way overgrown. Trimming isn't going to change the fact that there is severe elongation going on with this chin.

 

[tunes]

I agree with Dawn. I think keeping a malo chin alive, especially with malo to that degree, is pointless and selfish.

 

[Amphy64]

I'm so sorry about your girl's condition, Erin, and that of your daughter's chin, SCchin. I don't have experience of teeth problems in chins, but have seen them in three rabbits, so know how horrible it is, it was just heartbreaking. I really hope never to have to deal with it again. With the rabbits we did treat it, and managed to keep our little Hazel going for five years - he developed it when he was only just one year old (genetic, we believe). We wondered again and again if it was fair to him when he had to keep having his teeth trimmed (especially towards the end, as it got more frequent), but he did tend to recover fast, and was still very happy when his teeth weren't bothering him, digging burrows in the garden and popcorning, so I suppose we considered it worth it on balance.
I'll be interested to see what people's feeling is about it in chins. My understanding was that once roots in the upper jaw are growing into the sinus and eye cavities, there may be nothing further that can be done, but don't know for sure if that's the case?

 

[ErinsChins]

I agree with Dawn. I think keeping a malo chin alive, especially with malo to that degree, is pointless and selfish.

Thank you for your input. I agree and will be setting up the appointment. In the two months I had her, she was such a sweetie. I will miss her, but I don't want her to be in pain anymore. Do you think it would be okay to let her live until Monday? I don't want her hurting, and maybe it's selfish, but i'll miss her and I just feel so sad right now

Thank you everyone for your input, I knew it was bad, but I did not know how bad as I do not have much experience with Malo.

 

[Twilight Chinchillas]

At least she was cherished and loved in her time with you. A peaceful passing is the best gift you can give her right now. I'm so sorry. *hugs* to you and your girl.

 

[SCchin]

.
I'll be interested to see what people's feeling is about it in chins. My understanding was that once roots in the upper jaw are growing into the sinus and eye cavities, there may be nothing further that can be done, but don't know for sure if that's the case?

I had this exact conversation with the vet that treated our chin this week. This vet treats a lot of rodents. He said he has seen elongated roots where the chin wasn't bothered. Ours has the same on its x-rays, but the vet couldn't feel where the roots had come through, and the jaw was not inflamed. He trimmed the overgrown lower molars, and we are waiting to see what happens. The vet felt like it was too soon to make the call. We do know things could go either way.

Erin, I was exactly where you are at last weekend, pretty much ready to put our chin down. But the vet didn't agree (in fact three didn't), and the vet has to put the chin down.... What did your vet say?

 

[Ash]

SC, while a vet "has to put the chin down" a vet won't talk you out of it if you make the decision. I had a girl who I put down due to malo last year, you could feel the bumps in her jaw and she was "off" and that was more than enough for me, and the vet accepted my decision. She didn't try to talk me out of it, she knew I was doing what I felt was best for Squirt.

Honestly, I think a chin that has obvious growth in the roots should be put down. The situation isn't going to get better, and it's only a matter of time until it gets to the point where it will be causing an issue that makes the chin's life unbearable.

Erin, if you feel she is doing poorly, than only you can make the decision. Not the vet, not us, only you. We can give our recommendations based on experience, but it's ultimately your decision. Good luck with whatever you decide. You know your chin better than anyone.

 

[peachydays]

Thank you for your input. I agree and will be setting up the appointment. In the two months I had her, she was such a sweetie. I will miss her, but I don't want her to be in pain anymore. Do you think it would be okay to let her live until Monday? I don't want her hurting, and maybe it's selfish, but i'll miss her and I just feel so sad right now

Thank you everyone for your input, I knew it was bad, but I did not know how bad as I do not have much experience with Malo.

It is only okay to let her live until Monday if she has some relief for the pain. There is no question that with that degree of root elongation, she is in pain. Please call your vet and ask for pain meds. Let her have some relief before she goes.

Quite frankly, it disgusts me that a vet could see that kind of root elongation and not prescribe some pain medication. It is inhumane.

 

[SCchin]

Erin,
I see that you have metacam. Our vet said our 597 g chin could have up to 0.2cc every 24 hours. You may need to adjust a little if your chin is smaller.

 

[3CsMommy]

If you've got metacam and are okay with administrating it, I'd say taking the weekend to say goodbye might be a good compromise. I'm not great with x-rays etc., but the roots of her teeth on the right side are nearly into her eye socket. That's gotta hurt.

What I've always been told (and suggested when it's come up) is that when they can't do their three favorite things any more, it's time to let them go. You know her better than we do, so you should be able to tell if she's suffering. And if she's suffering, the fair thing to do is relieve that for her, as hard as it is for us.

 

[Claire D]

I had this exact conversation with the vet that treated our chin this week. This vet treats a lot of rodents. He said he has seen elongated roots where the chin wasn't bothered. Ours has the same on its x-rays, but the vet couldn't feel where the roots had come through, and the jaw was not inflamed. He trimmed the overgrown lower molars, and we are waiting to see what happens. The vet felt like it was too soon to make the call. We do know things could go either way.

Erin, I was exactly where you are at last weekend, pretty much ready to put our chin down. But the vet didn't agree (in fact three didn't), and the vet has to put the chin down.... What did your vet say?

The bottom line is, it is not the vet's call; it is the owner's - some vets (not all) will do anything to make money so they continue to perform dentals & prescribe eye drops, pain meds etc etc & it's not for the benefit of either the owner or the poor chinchilla. Chins are not like other rodents either & they don't show pain until it is too late (it is a prey defence). Chins with lower root problems can sometimes be managed but it is not true that they are "not bothered" by roots growing through the jawline - the result is always the same: PTS or the chin gives up & dies of malnutrition & pain. I also have to say that some vets are rubbish at interpreting chinchilla dental xrays.
Sadly on this forum we see people desperate to believe the vet is right over members with (in some cases an awful lot of) experience with chins & dental problems. The final outcome is the same - the chin is PTS - the difference is, those with experience do it sooner rather than watching a chin struggle.

I firmly believe that the philosophy of "rather a minute too soon than a second too late" is the most appropriate way to treat PTS chins with dental problems.


Erin, I am afraid I have to agree with the others who are suggesting you allow your chin to have a peaceful & dignified, pain-free ending. Those xrays look dreadful & I would not want to put a chin through any procedures with that amount of elongation.

 

[Sycamore Chins]

Erin, if you can get a hold of the other x-rays that would be great. Those x-rays are quite skewed, and while the teeth are bad, I can't really tell the full extent of it from that x-ray.

 

[chechinchillas]

If the roots are elongated I would put her down as soon as possible.

 

[ticklechin]

I have been in the shoes of those involved more times than I want to think about, I was the malo zealot and was going to "get it cured" by throwing money and time at the 6 chins involved over the 10 1/2 years I have had chins , well over 15k in money and 1000s and 1000s of hours handfeeding and dealing with malo chin issues 24/7/365. With the final malo chin my vet dentist sat me down and had the heart to heart talk with me that cleared up any doubts that a malo chin could live a "normal" chin life doped up on pain meds, they cannot and unless the chin is unconscious, pain meds will not take all pain away, even the very strong ones. Chins have a natural instinct to chew and graze, malo chins cannot chew and graze food when they want, you cannot tell if they are full, hungry, frustrated, in pain, or if they are just existing because there is that thing chins in pain do-they hide it. This vet made 1000s of dollars off me at my request for the experimental treatments and 100s of filings, she finally had enough of me with the last chin, and told me that further treatment of malo chins that were advanced would be against her advice. The chin was put down.

I have tried every experiemental treatment out there as of 2008 except one, one chin showed some improvment but it is anecedotal and if it were not for the x-rays could have been my imagination-this was the most involved treatment and frankly hindsight not worth what the chin went through to achieve it. That chin was put down also.

 

[Remyma0408]

A very tough choice to make, but I know you'll do what's best for this little gal.

 

[ErinsChins]

I haven't had much experience with malo (or any!) but I wanted to say something. I have not put her down yet. I am having a very hard time. Is there nothing I can do for her to have a quality life? If there isn't then that is fine. She is on the dog metacam .03 cc daily or whenever. Since I started giving her that, here is what she has done:
Taken her very first dustbath with me (she was in there forever!)
Eaten pellets like a pig
Eaten treats, even the hard rosehips!
Become less shy and more friendly

Even if I have to put her down, I have enjoyed being able to smile and cry watching her be pain free for at least a while. If there is nothing I can do then I will schedule a vet appointment for Wednesday.

 

[RDZCRanch]

If it were just surface problems on the molars, you could do filing. Judging by her X-rays, her roots are elongated. Once the roots are elongated there is no saving them or helping them. The ONLY responsible thing to do is to have them put down.

My very first chinchilla was Jewel. I got her a couple months early as my 13th birthday present. She was my constant companion and literally would sit on my shoulder or run on the couch with me while I watched tv or did homework. We were rarely apart for the eight years I had her. Even when I started breeding, she still got her huge cage to herself and I kept her closer to me and not with the other chinchillas. When she turned 7, she started showing signs of malo. I talked to my vet and after some X-rays we decided to file down the few points she had since there was little to no root elongation. After about six months, she started having problems again so I went back in to see the vet. We took more X-rays and her roots were elongated. I opted for treatment and spent the next six months fighting selfishly to keep her with me just one day longer. When I finally let her go, she had dropped to weighing only 540g from her normal 760g. She was in horrible pain and I watched every muscle in her body relax and let go when they sedated her. I didn't notice the daily changes in her of her muscles slowly tightening in response to the pain, but once the pain was gone, I realized how much had been there. I made my baby suffer because I needed her around for just one more day. It was a horribly painful process to me and I will never forget it. I am telling you, based on personal experience and wisdom from my vet that I ignored, put them down when you find root elongation. You are just prolonging the suffering, there is no cure, there is no taking away their pain. Chinchillas are VERY good at hiding pain and you won't realize how much pain she is in until you watch the pain leave her body. The longer you wait, the more pain she will be in and the harder her passing will be on you.

Please, for her sake, put her down NOW and don't prolong her suffering. Chinchillas eat because they want to survive, not because they are pain free or want to live with constant pain. It is hardwired into every animal, plant, organism, whatever to SURVIVE. Surviving is not thriving.