Tilly and malo

[Tillygizmo]

As many of you know, my malo chins name is Tilly and she is about 7 years old now.

Everytime I read about euthanasia from malo I freak out... I know Tillys day is coming because it can only get worse but she just seems to be happy most of the time. She runs on the wheel and dusts and nibbles at the pellets even though she gets CC for meals...she even tries to eat hay sometimes. I really dont know how to tell when her time is...she has had filings done every 2 months for the last 2 years...she comes out of it happy and chipper and normal each time..she comes home and eats and plays and dusts but she is constantly drooling and wet even after the filing. She's on a metacam regimen but I cannot even describe the guilt I feel when she comes to the edge of the cage all wet and drooling... Its so hard to tell if she is suffering with how happy she seems to be....

I know people say that it is all about the quality of life when we decide to let them go...but what do we mean by quality of life for a chin? for people who have had to put down their malo chins..how did you know it was time?

 

[Sycamore Chins]

When I was dealing with osteosarcoma in my rabbit, which has been the hardest thing I've ever had to go through and watch her go through, I was told to write down her three favorite things. Put it somewhere out in the open and once she could no longer do those three things or didn't want to, then it was time.

I made that list and I taped it to her water bottle so I would see it every day. I stuck to it, and the day I crossed the third thing off I scheduled her euthanasia. It's going to be the hardest decision you'll make, but the most important one, to relieve the suffering of your beloved pet.
The list is something I plan on recommending to all of my future clients when they want to know when is the right time.

 

[Tillygizmo]

This made me tear up... it will absolutely be the hardest decision of my life. I think Tillys three things would be 1) eat hay 2) dust 3) run on the wheel...

She has stopped eating hay but she still loves to dust with a passion and runs on the wheel when she knows its time to eat..her appetite is great

 

[Tillygizmo]

Thank you for the support Alicyn

 

[Sycamore Chins]

You're absolutely welcome!

Honestly, it made me tear up again typing it! The two euthanasia's i've had to do this year have been the hardest in my life, they are the animals I've had for the longest period of time that haven't passed on their own.

The list gave me something to stick to and not waiver about - or else I probably would have pushed it out until it was too late.

 

[Tillygizmo]

Yeah I think its a great way to keep an objective view of when it will be time. Easily measurable...

I think her cagemate Gizmo, who is younger, keeps her feeling alive (and annoyed at times) which helps

 

[ticklechin]

Malo chins do not have a expiration date stamped on their butt, IMO. If the chin is doing chin things, still has a appetite and eats from the syringe with no problems, plays during play time, still has that chin spark in the eye its not time again IMO. When the chin sleeps all day and night, fights feedings, and just looks depressed and deflated its time to say good bye.

 

[critterrx]

I was having a hard time deciding if it was time for Chico. He was needing filings more often, rubbing his jaw a lot, not playing nearly as much as usual, and dropping a lot of his CC mix. He still enjoyed treats, running on his saucer, and head rubs, though, so I was getting mixed signals. After his last filing, he didn't get any better. He still acted like he had points, and although he would come out of his cage for playtime, he spent most of the time either under a cage or sitting in Beck's cage. I took him back for re-check 2 weeks after the filing and had x-rays done again, revealing massive root elongation into his lower jaw. He even had points again, so he couldn't have been chewing at all. The behavior changes along with the x-ray information and the discussion with Chico's vet is how I finally decided it was time to end my baby's pain.

It's only been a week, so this is still fresh for me. If you have any other questions I can answer for you, or if you just want to talk, let me know. I totally understand how hard this is, and I hope Tilly still has quality time left with you.

 

[critterrx]

Is Tilly on Metacam only? That eventually stopped working for Chico and we switched him to tramadol, and later I had to add the Metacam back in to his regimen first once daily and finally twice daily. His final regimen was tramadol 3 times daily, Metacam twice daily, and famotidine (to protect his tummy while on all these meds) once daily. Last December I thought for sure he wouldn't make it to Christmas, and then by switching his meds, we bought him an additional 10 months.

Also, I was thinking more about the list idea. I think it's a good tool to help judge how they're doing, but I wouldn't base my decision solely on that. If I'd made Chico's list to say, "dust, wheel, treats," he'd still be here. Miserable, but here. I think you have to take their behavior as a whole into consideration, although making the list is a good way to start.

 

[feistychins]

When the chin sleeps all day and night, fights feedings, and just looks depressed and deflated its time to say good bye.

I agree with Dawn here. Many of us have been through what you are going through Samantha. It sounds to me like Tilly is not ready to give up yet. You will know when it is time. The lack of interest in things is a big indicator. Also if she starts loosing a lot of weight despite eating will be a sign of her declining health.

Enjoy every day with her as I know you do and SHE knows she is loved very much!!

 

[Brittany]

My heart goes out to you, from one Malo Mommy to another. Your gut will tell you when it's time. Treasure every moment, your baby is lucky to have a Mom like you. <3

 

[Tillygizmo]

Thanks everyone. Tilly goes in for another tooth trim tomorrow. I dont think the metacam is doing the trick as it was so I might discuss tramadol with the vet. She is still interested in living...so I want her to be comfortable.

Is anyone have negative insight into tramadol?

 

[mishellyshel]

Nothing negative but make sure the vet also prescribes an antiacid if you are going for long term pain management. I think it's the generic pepcid, called famatodine (check me on the spelling). You can do a search on here. And if you do end up using it remember that it is a narcotic & you should not abruptly stop administering it. Good Luck!

 

[Tillygizmo]

Thanks so much I wouldn't have realized about antacid. If tramadol having negative effect on her what symptoms will I see?

 

[ticklechin]

I used tramadol and metecam with the pepsid for months and months with several chins with no side effects. Buprenex or some of the opiod pain killers can cause nausea and a anti-nausea med needs to be used with it-when the strength of a pain killer such as buprenex is needed for a malo chin its a end of life med, but it does work well for extreme pain in other dental cases such as when you are treating a dental abscess or if you are treating gut issues such as hard bloat or stasis. In addition to the anti-nausea drug-I used benadryl, when using a opiod you need to use both motility drugs for the gut propulsid and reglan, opiods slow dow gut contractions to the point where impaction can occur. When doing long term pain therapy there is alot more to it than just giving the pain med, these other factors need to be addressed. If the pain therapy lasts longer than 6 months using multiple drugs such as those I listed a blood test during a filing to check for liver function should also happen every 6 months or so-that in conjuction with head x-rays to check for progression of elongation. Long term treatment of malo is not cheap, should not be taken lightly and the dedication should be 110% and always quality of life takes precedent.

 

[ticklechin]

I just wanted to point out, my last sentance is directed towards anyone who in considering long term treatment of malo and not the OP, she already know this.

 

[Tillygizmo]

Yes! I certainly know about the dedication and money factor. So just to be sure I understand, we don't think she needs something additional with the metacam and tramadol for motility? I just left the vet and I asked him what he thought about antacid or something additional and he said he didn't think it was neccessary however I don't take a vets word as the end all be all. It is indeed a long term regimen for her. She has been on metacam for about a year ...the past 6 months it has been regular everyday twice a day. Bloodwork was in july which was normal so ill have it done again after adding the tramadol. Her last xrays were awhile ago so she will be due soon.

 

[critterrx]

My vet didn't think famotidine was necessary since Chico wasn't having tummy issues (umm, the point is to prevent issues!) so what I did was buy famotidine tablets over the counter and compound a suspension myself. I'm a pharmacist, but the compounding syrup doesn't require a prescription and you could get a pharmacist to flavor the suspension for you (it's <$2 at Walmart and I'm sure other pharmacies could it is as well). I'd be glad to help you learn to do that if your vet doesn't want to prescribe the famotidine for you.

 

[ticklechin]

Long term use of the tramadol and metecam can cause gastric ulcers in chinchillas and rabbits, the famotidine is used to prevent it. My vet RXes it if the chin is going to be on the meds for more than 90 days.

 

[mishellyshel]

i use tramadol and the famatodine. the only time i use the metacam with those two is when we go for a filing and then just for a week or so.
the tramadol i have to get compounded at a special pharmacy and costs about 35 a bottle. i have reduced the amount I give Richie from the original scipt and he seems to do okay with that. I figure when I need to increase, I can always go up.

The famotidine I get from my regular pharmacy. Maybe you can ask the vet again to prescribe it for you. I dont think many vets are in the practice of prescribing this and if they are open to new info, they may go for it.
I grind up lifeline to be smooth and than add water to be liquidy. I use the small syringe, the 1cc ones. I put in liquid lifeline, famatodine & tramadol, than top of with lifeline again and syringe feed him that one time......at night for his weight the dosage as prescribed was .15 tramadol & .10 famatodine. i usually only give .05 ish of the tramadol.

I also weigh him frequently, although i can always tell when he seems a little light. every once in a while I will handfeed him. kinda gets his appetite kick started. I also offer him beaphar plus every night, a small bowl of pellets, an herbal mix and alfalfa hay. he likes the thinner twigs and willow coins. he gets a nightly shredded wheat. and an occasional goji berry. been doing the same regime for 1 1/2 years. he was diagnosed 2 1/2 years ago. he is spoiled and comes out every night, even if its just for 2 minutes.
I hope everything works out with Tilly.