This Has To Be A Record!

[Claire D]

Mark, I would suggest you go back & read the above post again. You're completely missing the point I was making.........

Claire, No where in this thread did it say that this incredible record of babies in 1 year caused any physical harm to this female. She did not die from this, she went on to have several more litters and lived to be 9 which is very average life for a herd breeding female.

Poor chins. 9 years old is not long-lived. I want my breeding females to at least hit their teens........

Where do you people come up with this stuff and why? It is mere speculation on your part that any of this was unhealthy for this mom.

Who are "you people"? Would that be people who do not share your view of chinchilla breeding? Those who do not share your opinions? The "small" people, eh?
Well, if it is then you'll have to get used to it because there are many people here who do not agree with your perspective on this story.
I don't care how long you or anyone else has been breeding chinchillas - every person on this forum has a perspective & opinions that are equally as valid as yours.

There was no negatives to this story, except for the 3 babies that were born tiny and didn't make it. Keep looking for negatives if that's what you feel you need to do.

It is your perspective that there are no negatives in this story. That's fine - we get it. We really do - you've been beating us over the head with it throughout the thread.
Berating anyone who does not agree with you isn't going to change their opinions but it does reinforce their perception of some breeding practices. You're simply polarising views all the more - way to go.

 

[EMSChins]

I have stayed out of this so far - but from a human perspective...my mother had 11 children (yes that's right - I have 4 brothers and 6 sisters and yes, we are Catholic so we can put that to rest right now)!!!

I think we can all agree that 11 childreen is a heck of a lot of kids for one breeding human female to put out in one lifetime so lets give her a round of applause! It is one heck of an accomplishment (or lifetime of h8!l, whichever way you want to look at it)!

My mom is currenty 80 years old so it doesn't "look" like it impacted her lifespan, but it did affect the quality of her life...my mom looked like she was 60 years old when she was only 40 and she was completely wiped out by the time she was 30. She was completely gray while still in her 30's. We can all look at her in amazement and wonder how she did it but I don't think that many of us would choose the same path. I know this is apples and oranges (humans vs animals) but I think this is what people are feeling here. The way most of us treat the chinchilla has come a long way and this is but one example.

 

[ticklechin]

If this was another species that was bred that way, it would be called a puppy mill, cranking out puppies, IMO I don't see the difference.

 

[VolunteerChin22]

Claire, No where in this thread did it say that this incredible record of babies in 1 year caused any physical harm to this female. She did not die from this, she went on to have several more litters and lived to be 9 which is very average life for a herd breeding female. Where do you people come up with this stuff and why? It is mere speculation on your part that any of this was unhealthy for this mom. I've already stated she ate well, maintained weight, and had ample milk production to handle all these babies. The babies were all sold to other breeders or kept by us for breeding. There was no negatives to this story, except for the 3 babies that were born tiny and didn't make it. Keep looking for negatives if that's what you feel you need to do. I consider it a really astonishing record and have nothing but positive memories about her. She was a very special female, definitely untypical to the norm.

Sorry Claire, but I am going to have to agree with Mark on some of this - at no time was anything said or confirmed that she was "bred to death" - that was an assumption on your part within your post, and yes, likely by some others reading this, however that doesn't make it factual - there are any number of reasons that may or may not have had anything to do with breeding that caused her to die at 9. He clearly stated this is an average lifespan (not some kind of feat that the chin lived to be 9) and without seeing any research on how long ranch females live, I would say this statement doesn't sound far off from what I might guess.

And while you may want your breeding chins to live into their teens, you could limit your females to two litters a year and they could still die before living that long from any number of causes.

This has been said many times, but people who are only in chins for a profit without regard to health or quality are not going to need any kind of "endorsement" some people seem to think this thread is advocating here or anywhere else, to do what they are going to do. They are simply going to ignore and go ahead. You are entitled to your opinon about how others are going to perceive this thread, but IMO it's not going to matter to those who have already made up their minds, just my two cents.

And Dawn, would you not agree that this chin was well cared for in a ranch environment by what Mark has said? I don't think it's fair to compare the operation described to a puppy mill. That seems a little extreme.

 

[Claire D]

Sorry Claire, but I am going to have to agree with Mark on some of this - at no time was anything said or confirmed that she was "bred to death" - that was an assumption on your part within your post, and yes, likely by some others reading this, however that doesn't make it factual - there are any number of reasons that may or may not have had anything to do with breeding that caused her to die at 9.

Agree all you like but please find my opinion posted in this thread. You will not find it because I have not posted it. Apart from commenting on the wild chinchilla breed back issue I have not posted my opinion so I'd really appreciate it if people would stop telling me what my opinion is.
The assumptions are yours alone here.

The fact remains that for some people this thread contains a horror story for the female chinchilla in question. Trying to negate that just isn't helpful or constructive.

Those agreeing that the chinchilla remained healthy have no proof. You simply have an anecdotal story. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. From that anecdotal story people are expressing their opinions (which they are entitled to) - truth is we have no proof, nor will we ever have in this case, whether that large number of kits affected the health of the female. What is true is that she died at age 9 which to many of us is pretty young even for a breeding female.

Why can't those of you who think it's a "wow" story accept that not everyone feels the same way?
Some people will view this type of breeding practice as deliberate cruelty - you are not going change their mind by trying to beat them into submission.

This has been said many times, but people who are only in chins for a profit without regard to health or quality are not going to need any kind of "endorsement" some people seem to think this thread is advocating here or anywhere else, to do what they are going to do. They are simply going to ignore and go ahead. You are entitled to your opinon about how others are going to perceive this thread, but IMO it's not going to matter to those who have already made up their minds, just my two cents.

I will repeat: nowhere in this thread have I posted my opinion - I have merely stated that everyone is entitled to their opinion even if those opinions don't agree this particular story.

What is coming across loud & clear in this thread are the polarity of views about breeding a chinchilla continuously & allowing a large number of litters/kits without a break. That's what forum are all about.

 

[ticklechin]

:deadhorse2: Like Claire D said, there are those that think its a neat story, and those that think is cruelty, and no one wil be swayed hense the dead horse.

 

[VolunteerChin22]

Agree all you like but please find my opinion posted in this thread. You will not find it because I have not posted it. Apart from commenting on the wild chinchilla breed back issue I have not posted my opinion so I'd really appreciate it if people would stop telling me what my opinion is.
The assumptions are yours alone here.

The fact remains that for some people this thread contains a horror story for the female chinchilla in question. Trying to negate that just isn't helpful or constructive.

Those agreeing that the chinchilla remained healthy have no proof. You simply have an anecdotal story. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. From that anecdotal story people are expressing their opinions (which they are entitled to) - truth is we have no proof, nor will we ever have in this case, whether that large number of kits affected the health of the female. What is true is that she died at age 9 which to many of us is pretty young even for a breeding female.

Why can't those of you who think it's a "wow" story accept that not everyone feels the same way?
Some people will view this type of breeding practice as deliberate cruelty - you are not going change their mind by trying to beat them into submission.


I will repeat: nowhere in this thread have I posted my opinion - I have merely stated that everyone is entitled to their opinion even if those opinions don't agree this particular story.

What is coming across loud & clear in this thread are the polarity of views about breeding a chinchilla continuously & allowing a large number of litters/kits without a break. That's what forum are all about.

"To others here it is a horror story about breeding a chinchilla to death."

Whether you yourself hold this as your opinion is not the point I was trying to make - the language I was responding to was contained within your post so that's why my comments mentioned it - I'm not telling you what your opinion is, so perhaps I should clarify that it is MY opinion that anyone who thinks this particular chin was, as this statement reads, "bred to death" is making an assumption about the demise of this particular chinchilla, because just like you said there was no proof she was healthy, there is also no proof this particular chin was "bred to death" regardless of people's opinions about the breeding practices that led to this story - which they can have - have at em! I really don't care. So in some round about way we are in agreement, because it's the logic of this statement given the provided context I take exception to and nothing else.

I never said this was a Wow story so I am going to assume you aren't including me in your part about accepting other people's opinions...And I am not seeing where there is any polarity about anyone's views on breeding chins without a break...no one has posted in this thread they acutally back this type of breeding - I certainly wouldn't do it because it's not worth the risk to my females and doesn't have anything to do with the goals of my breeding program.