This Has To Be A Record!

[ETC]

I think it is amazing that she was in such good condition after all those babies. It is surely a testament to the fact that she had the best of care. I have heard of PEOPLE having baby after baby and I feel for them too.....can imagine the shape their body is in, makes me think of 19 kids and counting...don't know how she does it. :hmm:
Very interesting to learn though, thanks for sharing Mark.

 

[Cuddlebug]

I was wondering about her age, too. I have a female here that just gets bigger with each litter. She only looses about half of the weight that she gained on each pregnancy. Even so, I have no plans of breeding the heck out her. I only allow her to have 2 litters a year. Another female I have can barely handle one litter per year. I think the information that Mark provided is very interesting and there is no reason he should have kept it to himself.

 

[Lynn & The Chins]

I'm not a breeder, but I agree with Tabitha. A good rancher is going to take care of his females -- they are his business.

I, too, Mark, enjoyed hearing about this. I have heard of Pick Wyatt from some of the old timers.

 

[ticklechin]

How can you tell if 4 sets of quads in a year is not going to tax a momma chin? This is not a snarky comment, I am curious as to how you would know after the 1st or second set of quads? Is it how good the Momma looks, milk production, weight? How many would try it and how would you make that decision?

 

[mark miller]

Honestly Dawn, I don't have a female right now that can handle those litter sizes. I do leave my females open for breedbacks if they have 1 or 2 babies and are getting along good with them. I am like Jessica though, and usually close off the male with 3 or 4 babies in a litter. I personally have not had one of my own females raise 4 babies on her own without any assistance. This was a very special female that was an excellent milk producer and a really good mom. This isn't the kind of thing anyone could plan out. How would the breeder have known that this female would have 4 consecutive litters of 3,4,4,and 5? This female got along so well with nursing her babies that he was able to leave the male in and it didn't bother her or the babies. She was such a good eater and well taken care of she never lost weight and became run down. She never had another run of babies like that but did produce and raise triplets 4 more times. She was 9 years old when she died. She was truly a special mom and I wish I had another like her, but I don't.

 

[RDZCRanch]

How can you tell if 4 sets of quads in a year is not going to tax a momma chin? This is not a snarky comment, I am curious as to how you would know after the 1st or second set of quads? Is it how good the Momma looks, milk production, weight? How many would try it and how would you make that decision?

I don't think one person in this thread has said "Hmmm...let me go try that."

It has to do with the mother's body condition, weight, milk production, appetite, energy, etc. You can tell if a female has poor body condition, that's not exactly rocket science. Some females have sets of quads and quints back to back and their body condition stays excellent and they're none the worse for wear because of it.

It's common practice today for breeders to give their chinchillas breaks after large litters, but it was not always so.

 

[Kansas City Chinchillas]

Mark offered information about an animal he personally observed 25 years ago. It was kind of him to share. I find it interesting because the female was in good health, and had ample milk. Learning new things about chins is important to me. Just because you learn or discuss something doesn't mean you're going to do it.

 

[Encantadora]

Very remarkable!

Few people realize how well cared for ranch chins are. I had someone over at my house last week who saw the chins and first thought they were rabbits. When I corrected her, she went into a rant about horrible "ranchers" (she called them something else, she had no clue what she was talking about) who bred chinchillas and killed them for their fur.

Most people don't realize the injustices are actually backyard breeders who breed poor traits or the owner who gets a chin and hasn't researched proper care. Their actions are truly the downfall of the chin world as I see it.

*off the soap box now* ; )

Anyway, I'm sure she was a happy girl that your family was fortunate to own. I've never heard of a mom like that.

 

[ticklechin]

I don't think one person in this thread has said "Hmmm...let me go try that."

It has to do with the mother's body condition, weight, milk production, appetite, energy, etc. You can tell if a female has poor body condition, that's not exactly rocket science. Some females have sets of quads and quints back to back and their body condition stays excellent and they're none the worse for wear because of it.

It's common practice today for breeders to give their chinchillas breaks after large litters, but it was not always so.

With the BYBs we have on this forum, you can never tell if they would try it have tried it I am sad to say, I hope they would not but people will be people and they do what they want.

 

[RDZCRanch]

With the BYBs we have on this forum, you can never tell if they would try it have tried it I am sad to say, I hope they would not but people will be people and they do what they want.

I don't see this post as encouraging anything of the sort. I think enough of the reputable breeders on here have stated that we won't try it, even the OP.

We have no control over the BYB's. They can take one sentence from anyone, anywhere on the internet and use it as an excuse to do what they want. That doesn't mean we have to stop sharing information we find interesting just because one ***** will take it and run with it in the opposite direction. BYB's will do what they do regardless of what we do or don't say.

 

[Encantadora]

The byb's I've come across do not separate pairs. At all. So I'm doubtful the ones who give their girls a break would stop taking the boys out. (let's hope!)

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

I find it very interesting also. My mother of quads is handling her brood but not without noticeable changes. Her quads are doing great though.

 

[menagerie]

She was 9 years old when she died. She was truly a special mom and I wish I had another like her, but I don't.

Nine is not a long life for a chin. I wonder how much life was sucked out of her by the continual breed backs and big litters.

 

[VolunteerChin22]

I am curious about closing runs in large operations - what's the norm there? Do some of the ranch hands keep up with that when they notice females close to being due? Is it more on a run by run basis, ie maybe certain males are not trustworthy with females?

Mark, do you have any notes about cause of death out of curiosity?

 

[Claire D]

In their natural habitat, chinchillas would have been exposed to a male after every litter, so I'm sure consecutive breedbacks were a very common occurance.

I think this is a convenient myth, perpetuated to justify allowing multiple breed backs in captive breeding programmes.
Captive breeding programmes prevent the female from running away from an aggressive male although admittedly a determined female will fight off a male - anecdotal accounts of injuries &/or death to male or female chins are not uncommon.
That is not the case in the wild, where the female can put distance between her & the male. A female is less likely to be mated against her will if she can run away.
I have not seen any evidence that multiple breed backs & large litters occur in wild populations. In fact, the opposite is described by many authors; small litters once or twice a year.

 

[mark miller]

I'm glad for those of you that could appreciate this amazing mom and her accomplishments of having and raising so many babies. Anyone who's ever bred chinchillas would understand all the variables that come with breeding. 1-2 litters a year, 1-3 babies per litter, these are the expected norms of breeding. 4 litters in a year, and consecutive litter sizes of 3, 4, 4, and 5 are all natural occuring anomalies. Breedbacks are not a guarantee, they only happen about 1/2 the time I leave a male in after littering. 3 consecutive breedbacks, another unexpected variation from the norm. Raising 2 sets of quads babies back to back all on her own, another amazing feat. Being with 2 different un-related males during this time and still having consistantly larger than average litter sizes with different genetics at play another anomaly. These are the facts that make this an incredible and worthy of sharing story. There is no one that could read this and decide they were going to recreate it with their female. If you breed, you understand you cannot control the variables of breeding. This is just a "Wow, That's Incredible" story. Thanks to all of you that understand that. I've been breeding chinchillas with my Father and Grandfather for 30 years and this was a natural occurring phenomenon story of a very special mother and her babies.

 

[starleomach]

She was amazing but I still feel bad for her, poping out 1 baby with pain killers was tough enough..I can't imagine doing it 16 times in one year without drugs LOL.. I don't think that happens in the wild though..Honestly I do not pull the males in my colonies as breedbacks rarely happen, but in pairs and runs I close off or pull the male because they do happen in those situations

 

[Claire D]

I'm glad for those of you that could appreciate this amazing mom and her accomplishments of having and raising so many babies. Anyone who's ever bred chinchillas would understand all the variables that come with breeding. ...................................
If you breed, you understand you cannot control the variables of breeding. This is just a "Wow, That's Incredible" story. Thanks to all of you that understand that. I've been breeding chinchillas with my Father and Grandfather for 30 years and this was a natural occurring phenomenon story of a very special mother and her babies.

Mark, you are obviously disappointed by the responses your story has received in this thread but that's the joy of internet forums. I think you will find almost every breeder here "gets it" on a theoretical level BTW.
To you it's an incredible story about the ability of a chinchilla to produce & raise kits. To others here it is a horror story about breeding a chinchilla to death. Both ends of the spectrum have some validity.

 

[ticklechin]

:clap1:

Mark, you are obviously disappointed by the responses your story has received in this thread but that's the joy of internet forums. I think you will find almost every breeder here "gets it" on a theoretical level BTW.
To you it's an incredible story about the ability of a chinchilla to produce & raise kits. To others here it is a horror story about breeding a chinchilla to death. Both ends of the spectrum have some validity.

 

[mark miller]

Claire, No where in this thread did it say that this incredible record of babies in 1 year caused any physical harm to this female. She did not die from this, she went on to have several more litters and lived to be 9 which is very average life for a herd breeding female. Where do you people come up with this stuff and why? It is mere speculation on your part that any of this was unhealthy for this mom. I've already stated she ate well, maintained weight, and had ample milk production to handle all these babies. The babies were all sold to other breeders or kept by us for breeding. There was no negatives to this story, except for the 3 babies that were born tiny and didn't make it. Keep looking for negatives if that's what you feel you need to do. I consider it a really astonishing record and have nothing but positive memories about her. She was a very special female, definitely untypical to the norm.