The feed thread

[designer chins]

Like Tori I feed Manna Pro (Sho). I started on Shoots and was VERY happy with it, but I'm so far from them that relying on getting feed at a show or seminar got tricky when I increased the number of animals I have. I switched to Manna Pro Sho, which I have to special order 3 weeks in advance, and the chins like it, waste very little, no sticky poos or digestive issues, and kit birth weights/growth rates/etc have been excellent. I'd still be using Shoots if I could get it easily, but this has been a wonderful compromise for me locally (even if I have to remember to plan ahead and order in advance!)

 

[clarinuto]

I first started with a couple off brands and had no luck... a lot of waste and occasional poop problems. Switched to Mazuri and they did fairly well on it, but I still had some waste and then one of my more sensitive chins had some fecal issues. At that point I switched to Oxbow and have been using it ever since.

What are you feeding now?
Oxbow Chinchilla Deluxe

Do you get your feed locally?
No. It's way too expensive if I buy it locally: $16 for a 5 pound bag!!! (at PetSmart :vomit

 

[Bostongirl'sChin75]

Not knowing any better, when I got my first chin, I fed Charlie Chinchilla. I found out it was crappy food ( TY Chins n Hedgies ) and switched over to Oxbow chinchilla. After my chin was diagnosed with tooth issues and had to have filings done, she quit eating the Oxbow so I tried Mazuri. I have had great success with Herby on that! No diarrhea or soft poos. When I got my second chin, Zoe she was on some crap food too, I cant remember the name, and I switched her too Mazuri. She loves it and has had no problems with it. When I got Ansem, Crysta ( Essentia ) had him on a Mazuri/PANR mix but he was picking the PANR out and eating it and leaving the Mazuri so I feed him the PRCS now.

what am I feeding now?

PRCS and Mazuri

do I get it locally?

Yes and No. I will be getting the PRCS locally thanks to Crysta! The Mazuri I order from Quality Mutation Chinchillas

 

[Linda]

I have been watching this thread, and what is most surprising to me is how many people talk about bad batches of food leading to illness and death in their animals. People seem to switch around quite a bit to try to avoid it, and there's no real consensus on what foods are best.

In the smaller rodents (rats, mice, hamsters, and dwarf hamsters), we don't have these feed issues. We did when we used Oxbow (it's terrible for the smaller rodents), but since we have switched to the lab-grade foods, we haven't seen feed problems. And lab grade foods are not expensive, yet the quality is far higher and more consistent than the non-lab grade foods (including food from some brands listed in this thread). Each batch of lab-grade food is tested before shipped, and they have exclusive lab distributors although we mostly use the feed stores. If I had more experience with chins, I'd explore which blends are best.

Looking at the Purina Mills Lab Diets, for rabbits they have quite a few blends. You can see them off to the left at this link.

http://www.labdiet.com/rabbit_diet.html

These feeds are "constant nutrition" meaning they don't vary the contents based on what grains are cheapest at the time. They keep things constant which I can only imagine is good given chins' delicate digestive systems.

I wish someone with enough experience with chins to identify which is best and with a large enough herd would try the most likely of these and be able to recommend to the rest of us. The diet is consistent across regions and plants which seems to be an issue with other companies, and I get my PMI lab diet within a month of milling even if the mill is out east.

In the other rodents, we can recommend blends which are best for the various species (and I've done much of the experimenting with hamsters with the help of a vet), and we are fairly consistent in what we use across the US. Animals can move between the top breeders in the country as well as across club members without the transition to a different food. It saves the animals from trying this and trying that and transitioning to this and to that.

After reading this thread, I'm really not at all sure what to use with my chins although I'd prefer a lab diet given the problems people are experiencing with pretty much every available feed.
Linda

 

[CTChin]

I fed Mazuri for many years and had occasional soft poop. I stayed on it for so long because I thought my chins were reaching their full potential. About a year ago I switched to the Purina Show rabbit and am amazed how some of my chins look. Granted most are pets now but I'm still amazed by how many have beefed up with thicker coats. Wish I had made the switch a long time ago. Not all are as thrilled with the taste as Mazuri but because it is half the price, I don't mind some waste.

 

[jags]

From what I have seen over the years most problems come about with how the feed is handled once milled and is not as much a milling problem.

 

[threewingedfury]

I wish someone with enough experience with chins to identify which is best and with a large enough herd would try the most likely of these and be able to recommend to the rest of us. The diet is consistent across regions and plants which seems to be an issue with other companies, and I get my PMI lab diet within a month of milling even if the mill is out east.

After reading this thread, I'm really not at all sure what to use with my chins although I'd prefer a lab diet given the problems people are experiencing with pretty much every available feed.

A feed store of mine carries quite a few lab diets, and I checked the prices on the bags and it was pretty close to $40 for a 50 lb bag. That isn't a reasonable price whatsoever when you have a large number of animals and it would be difficult to afford.

I also looked through the ingredients and a lot of the rabbit diets listed aren't high in protein (some 14%) and quite a few of them have corn as a main ingredient.

 

[Linda]

A feed store of mine carries quite a few lab diets, and I checked the prices on the bags and it was pretty close to $40 for a 50 lb bag. That isn't a reasonable price whatsoever when you have a large number of animals and it would be difficult to afford.

I'll have to see how much some of them cost, but around here the same bag can vary by up to $15 depending on where you buy it with $40 being the high end. Rabbit feeds may be different than rodent feeds, though. What is the max people are willing to pay for a food?

Hobby breeders get a bad rap on this forum, but having witnessed the illness and death in my animals from bad Oxbow feed, I'd pay pretty much any price if it meant I could consistently feed my animals a quality diet. They are totally dependent on me, and I have a responsibility to feed them well or just not keep them at all. Of course the feed stores also know I'll be there the day the food arrives to pick it up to avoid as much potential for problems being introduced there as possible.

I also looked through the ingredients and a lot of the rabbit diets listed aren't high in protein (some 14%) and quite a few of them have corn as a main ingredient.

That's the beauty of the lab diets. You actually have a choice and can choose the blend that works best for your animals and their circumstances. It's not a one-size-fits-all cookie-cutter approach like many brands seem to be.

What is the optimal protein level for chins? I don't think I've seen it posted. Most breeders seem to use rabbit foods which won't necessarily be optimal for chins, and I'm sure the protein needs vary between pregnant / nursing mothers or growers and adult pets or seniors. So some variation may be welcome.

Here are some examples that aren't heavily corn based.
5325 -- Protein 14.5%
5326 -- Protein 14.8%
5P25 -- Protein 16.5%
5L25 -- Protein 16.5%

I think someone said 17% was too high, so these may be more in the range of what chins need. I looked up a couple of other feeds listed here. Mazuri is 20%, but I don't think many breeders use it. Manna Pro Sho, Purina Show, and Oxbow are each 16%. Tradition is 16-18%, and Nutrena doesn't make it easy to find theirs.

Linda

 

[Essentia]

People seem to switch around quite a bit to try to avoid it, and there's no real consensus on what foods are best.

I honestly don't understand why you feel like there needs to be one specific feed that works for every single chinchilla. All chins are different, and all people want different things from feeds. Over, and over people have listed what feeds are safe for chinchillas, and doesn't cause death. Try one and if it works for you, stick with it. If it doesn't try another.


I'll start here and tell you what I specifically see wrong with the feeds listed on the Purina Lab diets website.

Autoclavable Rabbit Diet- Protein too high
Rabbit Diet- Corn as second ingredient
Certified Rabbit Diet- Corn as second ingredient
Certified Hi-Fiber Rabbit Diet- Protein too low
Rabbit Diet H- Protein too low
Advanced Protocol PicoLab Natural Sunflower- not a feed, just sunflower seeds.
Prolab Hi-Fiber Rabbit- While corn isn't the second ingredient, it's too high on the list for my liking.
Prolab Rabbit Diet Hong Kong Diets- 4 ton minimum, corn too high up on the list anyway
PicoLab Rabbit Diet HF- This is the first one I have found on there that could work, but I would like someone more in tune with what chins needs for vitamins/minerals to take a look at it.
PicoLab Laboratory Rabbit Diet- Fiber too low.

Once again though, I honestly don't even see the need for someone to try any of these, or any other lab diets, on their chins as what they are using is apparently working for them. Like Tiffany said, these are also very expensive considering how many chins some of these people have. It might work for someone who owns pets (well a whole bunch of them as I highly doubt these come in anything less than a 50 lb bag).

While I do definitely appreciate the consistency of the feed I'll stick with my corn free diet so that I know my chins aren't being filled up with fillers instead of what they actually need. Just my personal opinion.

 

[RDZCRanch]

Problems with feed happen when the feed is stored incorrectly after the mill has shipped it out or it gets mishandled as JAGS mentioned. They mix consistently and test each batch though a batch could be 5 tons.

I've fed Ace Hi rabbit pellets, Royal Feeds rabbit pellets, Mazuri, Rancher's Choice pellets and Kruse rabbit pellets.

Mazuri was fine with my chins until I reached a higher number, then I noticed more occurences of diarrhea. I switched because of that and just because their coats didn't look as great and they weren't gaining weight very well.

Ace Hi rabbit pellets were awesome and I would go back to them. Extremely consistent and my chins looked great on it. The stores around me stopped carrying it even with my begging...they wanted me to order at least 1 ton at a time and I couldn't do it.

Royal Feeds was ok. It wasn't the best but I didn't have huge problems on it.

Rancher's Choice was horrible and killed a huge number in two people's herds that I knew...so I switched off it ASAP. I noticed some weight loss in my herd but my chins were only on it for about two or three months.

Kruse pellets were not horrible but not nearly as good as Royal and I considered Royal mediocre. I switched off that after only a month.

I feed Bowen pellets now. They're very consistent, I've only had one bad batch and I didn't lose any chins from it. I had a bit of weight loss but once that bag was done they went after their feed with a vengence again. I also like it because it's made with crushed oyster shells which is an easier source of calcium for chins.

I think if you can get your feed directly from the mill or as close as possible to directly from the mill, you're fine. You just have to know how your feed was handled and where it came from.

 

[ppsamm]

I have been using Mazuri for 7years and my chins are still on it. I have tried a couple of brands eg. kline, oxbow, apd, traditions in the past. I love tradition feed most. Currently a couple of my chins are on a 50/50 shoots and mazuri now.

We have distributors for Mazuri and oxbow over here and they can easily available our pet stores in singapore. But if given the choice, I will choose tradition or shoots feed for my chins.

Since someone mentioned about Labdiet, I highly recommend Labdiet 5025 Feed for Guinea Pigs. They really work GREAT on my guinea pigs.

 

[Megan]

I am paying about $12.65 for a 50lb bag of tradition. It works for me, I like the feed, I only have to drive 2 hours to get it. With 80 chins, and even though I'm only using about a bag every week and a half- I can't afford a $40 bag of feed.

 

[Linda]

Problems with feed happen when the feed is stored incorrectly after the mill has shipped it out or it gets mishandled as JAGS mentioned. They mix consistently and test each batch though a batch could be 5 tons.

I've fed Ace Hi rabbit pellets, Royal Feeds rabbit pellets, Mazuri, Rancher's Choice pellets and Kruse rabbit pellets.

Mazuri was fine with my chins until I reached a higher number, then I noticed more occurences of diarrhea. I switched because of that and just because their coats didn't look as great and they weren't gaining weight very well.

Ace Hi rabbit pellets were awesome and I would go back to them. Extremely consistent and my chins looked great on it. The stores around me stopped carrying it even with my begging...they wanted me to order at least 1 ton at a time and I couldn't do it.

Royal Feeds was ok. It wasn't the best but I didn't have huge problems on it.

Rancher's Choice was horrible and killed a huge number in two people's herds that I knew...so I switched off it ASAP. I noticed some weight loss in my herd but my chins were only on it for about two or three months.

Kruse pellets were not horrible but not nearly as good as Royal and I considered Royal mediocre. I switched off that after only a month.

I feed Bowen pellets now. They're very consistent, I've only had one bad batch and I didn't lose any chins from it. I had a bit of weight loss but once that bag was done they went after their feed with a vengence again. I also like it because it's made with crushed oyster shells which is an easier source of calcium for chins.

I think if you can get your feed directly from the mill or as close as possible to directly from the mill, you're fine. You just have to know how your feed was handled and where it came from.

Call me naive, dense, or a stupid newbie hobby breeder, but I don't get it. This is a dizzying array of foods to have tried on chins when you haven't been breeding for very long. Maybe I'm wrong (and I haven't experienced problems myself), but people keep saying that chin's digestive systems are delicate. Wouldn't someone want to stay on one feed over the long term and offer the chin consistency through at least one phase of its lifespan if not longer? I've raised smaller rodents for years (with much, much shorter lifespans), and I've had them on the same feed for generations now without a switch, without a bad batch, and without the digestive problems common in some of their species.

Bowen's is the preferred food because you've "only" had one bad batch. How many bad batches does it take to get a feed off the preferred list and take it out of use? If one bad batch is a good record for a feed, does it take five bad batches? ten? more?

I am flabbergasted at the number of people in this thread who have talked about the illness and death in chins just due to bad feed. I feel like I'm the only one who is concerned about it, and it may just be that to me chins are anything but livestock. They're pets first and foremost and show or breeding animals second. I was told at one of the shows that I would never place well with this mentality, so I guess I'll never be considered a show breeder among the chin crowd. I'm just a lowly hobby breeder who breeds show chins for pet owners.

It's been interesting to watch how people are attacked on this forum if money becomes an issue with them properly caring for their chin. Suffering is just not allowed for pet owners. Food seems to be the exception, though. Cost is an accepted major factor in choice, and bad batches that lead to suffering or death in chins is accepted and perhaps expected.

People talk casually about bad batches of food and the death of large numbers of chins. Foods don't need to have bad batches, and I've never gotten a feed directly from the mill. I think it's been about eight years that we've been on the same feed, and I've never had a bad batch and don't know of anyone across the entire US that's had a bad batch of the lab diet. Bad batches are not considered acceptable -- not even if it's "only" one bad batch when it causes our animals to suffer because of something only we can control. Then again, even before the switch to lab diets, we didn't experience bad batches -- just one very inadequate food that was taken off the market.

It's just interesting to see how differently people view feed in different animals.
Linda

 

[ticklechin]

I think Tab has been breeding for what, almost 8-10 years? I knew of her when she started, so IMO that is not a short amount of time. Just like human food, you can get bad chin for for whatever reason, there is no guarantee when it comes to food. I have had 15 chins and many many foster chins in the 10 years I have owned them, I have never got a bad batch of food but I also have not switched much. $$ has never been a factor in my food switches, quality and palatability has. If the chin won't eat it it does not matter how much or how little it costs, I think most people here are looking for a balance of freshness, avalibility, cost and palatability, so I don't see being cheap is widespread like you are insinuating.

 

[threewingedfury]

Call me naive, dense, or a stupid newbie hobby breeder, but I don't get it. This is a dizzying array of foods to have tried on chins when you haven't been breeding for very long.

Tabitha has been breeding for years, she has quite a bit of experience and has been breeding long enough to have went through that many feeds to figure out what is best for her. I've been breeding for 6 years and I've been through quite a bit of feeds myself trying to find the right one. If I can't get the feed I use in a timely matter, I may have to change again, it's life.

Because it's hard to find a feed that is formulated SPECIFICALLY for chinchillas, we have to try a different array of feeds that fit into the guidelines of what we're looking for. Feed is different from each mill - quality differs from each batch sometimes. This is something that is out of our hands. We also have to look at the price, regardless of the fact that you think that it's not important. If you want to try the Lab Diets, go ahead - but I don't see where any of them fit very well into the nutritional guidelines for chins. The feed Crysta mentioned might work is also looks low in fat compared to the rest of rabbit feeds I've seen. The others have too much corn, too high in fiber, too low in protein, and it just doesn't look like it's really worth looking into. I for one will not try a feed that isn't used by someone else. I have never heard of anyone using Lab Diet with their chins and have success. I will not just anyone when it comes to my feed.

Maybe I'm wrong (and I haven't experienced problems myself), but people keep saying that chin's digestive systems are delicate. Wouldn't someone want to stay on one feed over the long term and offer the chin consistency through at least one phase of its lifespan if not longer?

If you're getting crappy feed, it's better to change to prolong their life, not to continue dealing with mess. Many of us have experimented with these feeds that have been used for years by others and while they do fine for a few pet owners, those with many chinchillas see problems with the feed and have to change. Each herd is different, each chin does different on certain feeds - you have to find what is best for your herd or your pets specifically.

Bowen's is the preferred food because you've "only" had one bad batch. How many bad batches does it take to get a feed off the preferred list and take it out of use? If one bad batch is a good record for a feed, does it take five bad batches? ten? more?

Because Bowen has so many animals, he has to get tons milled at one time, we small hobby breeders don't get but so many bags and we see differences with our chins that they may not. I get my feed from Shoots, same principle applies - I've been very pleased with the consistency of the feed, though I've had some bags that had a bit more dust in it than others - it's still better than the feed that I've found from any store around my area.

I am flabbergasted at the number of people in this thread who have talked about the illness and death in chins just due to bad feed. I feel like I'm the only one who is concerned about it, and it may just be that to me chins are anything but livestock. They're pets first and foremost and show or breeding animals second. I was told at one of the shows that I would never place well with this mentality, so I guess I'll never be considered a show breeder among the chin crowd. I'm just a lowly hobby breeder who breeds show chins for pet owners.

If you were a breeder that had 100 chins, had been told that a certain feed did great with another herd and you wanted to try it out and it worked for months and then all of a sudden, you noticed problems, wouldn't you change? Feed consistency and quality has changed A LOT since the economy is gone downhill. They're changing ingredients, trying to make it cheaper, and it's just not as good as it used to be. We are all concerned about our animal's health - none of us want an animal to die, but the simple fact is, if you have a large number of animals, who can afford to pay $40-50 for a bag of feed when you're going through that in a week or less. Do you not realize how much money we're already losing from taking care of these chins in the first place? Yes, it is a money issue with larger breeders and we're not trying to find the cheapest feed, we're trying to find a feed that works well with our herd and is consistent and has the quality. You can find this in a cheaper feed if you pay attention. For pet people, yes they're pets first, but most large breeders that show will tell you, money is a concern and their quality on the feed is a concern - hence why we have to keep changing.

 

[RDZCRanch]

8 years is not long for breeding? I'm flabbergasted that you "want" to learn yet cannot take advice or listen to anyone else because you do "this" with hamsters and other small rodents so we should do it for chinchillas. THEY. ARE. NOT. THE. SAME.

One bad batch of feed that did not result in death, illness, diarrhea or weight loss. Do you not read fully? THAT makes good feed because even a bad batch is not going to kill or harm my chins.

to me chins are anything but livestock

Chinchillas ARE livestock...whether or not they seem as such to you. I don't consider mine livestock and I'm offended by the assumption that I would care little about the diet my chinchillas have.

I'm flabbergasted that you are so narrow minded that ONLY lab grade food will be acceptable for chins so EVERYONE needs to throw money at tests for this one generic food that will work for chinchillas everywhere. I PERSONALLY have not lost any chinchillas to feed issues. I had some diarrhea from Mazuri and weight loss from the other few. I KNOW of two herds that were almost wiped out from feed issues, but neither of those breeders are people I would consider ethical or that I think care about their chins more than making a buck off babies.

Maybe you should spend more time learning from experienced members instead of trying to force chinchillas to fit in the envelope of all the other rodents you have experience with. We have numerous members that have catered to small rodents other than chinchillas that don't insist on them being cared for and treated the same. Granted, there are times things line up and it's great to hear differing opinions, but constantly pushing it gets rather annoying.

I don't think this thread was started to pick apart anyone that has tried numerous feeds. I think it was put together to inform people of the choices and people's experience with their choices. You can take the information from this to choose a feed for yourself, instead of criticizing everyone for having had a bad batch of feed here or there. Bad feed happens because people don't handle the bags properly. They usually don't come up to you and say "hey...that bag there? I dropped it in water...just wanted to let you know. :thumbsup:" If you're experienced enough, you can tell a bad bag just from opening it and smelling it.

 

[ticklechin]

Also, I would not even consider feeding any of those Lab feeds, too little protein and too much corn.

What animals did you have die on Oxbow Linda? If its chinchillas you are the first person I have ever heard of have a problem, and if it is chinchillas consider the store the issue you GOT the feed from not the manufacturer.

 

[tunes]

I am flabbergasted at the number of people in this thread who have talked about the illness and death in chins just due to bad feed. I feel like I'm the only one who is concerned about it, and it may just be that to me chins are anything but livestock. They're pets first and foremost and show or breeding animals second. I was told at one of the shows that I would never place well with this mentality, so I guess I'll never be considered a show breeder among the chin crowd. I'm just a lowly hobby breeder who breeds show chins for pet owners.

Yes Linda, you are the ONLY person in this entire thread, God bless you, who thinks of chins as anything other than livestock. When my chins were dying right and left due to a feed issue and I spent thousands and thousands of dollars on necropsies, vet bills, antibiotics, new cages, new wood houses, and hammocks, I just thought of them as livestock. When I slept on the chin room floor in a sleeping bag, because I was terrified to leave the chin room in case another chin died, I was doing nothing but thinking of them as livestock.

You've got a lot of nerve throwing your incredulity and offensive comments around here. You don't know chins. You don't know Tab, or anybody else in this thread, and you **** sure don't know me. You have no IDEA of what we have put into our herds, and it doesn't have jack to do with money. Do I think Oxbow is ridiculous to charge $40.00 for a 50 pound bag of food? Well, duh. That doesn't make me cheap. It means their prices are ridiculous. And just because YOU have decided that "a lab diet is the way to go" doesn't make it even remotely right for anybody, yourself included.

 

[menagerie]

Also, I would not even consider feeding any of those Lab feeds, too little protein and too much corn.

What animals did you have die on Oxbow Linda? If its chinchillas you are the first person I have ever heard of have a problem, and if it is chinchillas consider the store the issue you GOT the feed from not the manufacturer.

At the rescue all the guinea pigs and rabbits eat Oxbow and we've never had an issue. In my experience, Oxbow does a good job on food for hindgut fermenters which chins, rabbits and guinea pigs are.

I've found that the rats are not fond of Oxbow so they get something else. I don't believe we've tried the Oxbow hamster food.

 

[starleomach]

Call me naive, dense, or a stupid newbie hobby breeder, but I don't get it. This is a dizzying array of foods to have tried on chins when you haven't been breeding for very long. Maybe I'm wrong (and I haven't experienced problems myself), but people keep saying that chin's digestive systems are delicate. Wouldn't someone want to stay on one feed over the long term and offer the chin consistency through at least one phase of its lifespan if not longer? I've raised smaller rodents for years (with much, much shorter lifespans), and I've had them on the same feed for generations now without a switch, without a bad batch, and without the digestive problems common in some of their species.

Bowen's is the preferred food because you've "only" had one bad batch. How many bad batches does it take to get a feed off the preferred list and take it out of use? If one bad batch is a good record for a feed, does it take five bad batches? ten? more?

I am flabbergasted at the number of people in this thread who have talked about the illness and death in chins just due to bad feed. I feel like I'm the only one who is concerned about it, and it may just be that to me chins are anything but livestock. They're pets first and foremost and show or breeding animals second. I was told at one of the shows that I would never place well with this mentality, so I guess I'll never be considered a show breeder among the chin crowd. I'm just a lowly hobby breeder who breeds show chins for pet owners.

It's been interesting to watch how people are attacked on this forum if money becomes an issue with them properly caring for their chin. Suffering is just not allowed for pet owners. Food seems to be the exception, though. Cost is an accepted major factor in choice, and bad batches that lead to suffering or death in chins is accepted and perhaps expected.

People talk casually about bad batches of food and the death of large numbers of chins. Foods don't need to have bad batches, and I've never gotten a feed directly from the mill. I think it's been about eight years that we've been on the same feed, and I've never had a bad batch and don't know of anyone across the entire US that's had a bad batch of the lab diet. Bad batches are not considered acceptable -- not even if it's "only" one bad batch when it causes our animals to suffer because of something only we can control. Then again, even before the switch to lab diets, we didn't experience bad batches -- just one very inadequate food that was taken off the market.

It's just interesting to see how differently people view feed in different animals.
Linda

I have been breeding for 14 years now. I have switched 3 times. to find a feed that works for me. It seems every time you start posting you start insulting people. I have owned many different rodents over the years and they are all different. Chinchillas cannot be treated the same as everything else.

You haven't had a bad batch you have been lucky. But don't you dare insunuate we don't care. I pour my heart and soul into my chinchillas as do many other breeders here. I love my chinchillas. If we were not concerend about the bad feed would we have changed? I do everything I can to keep my chinchillas well.

I had a lot more to say but keep deleting it as it is pointless. You have proven yourself from what I have seen to be one of those type of people.

And I agree with others there is no 1 right way to do things and there is no 1 perfect feed. You find what works for you and do that