Show or Pet?

[corneliuschins]

I wanted to start this thread in hopes of finding an answer to a question that's been mulling in my mind for years. The question is, "why do people think that a show chin is different from a pet chin?" In my mind show/pet is the same darn thing. But, i've heard the arguement over and over that some people breed pet chins instead of show chins. I just hope to try and understand the "other" point of view. Anyone out there know the justification behind breeding pet chins? Or why there should be a difference? I know you'll all be tempted to post in agreement with my statement that they are the same, but this is for those on the other side of the coin. I'm just interested in understanding is all. Thanks anyone - Jessica
ETA this is not a personal thing (to anyone personally, or about anyone personally), it's just that i've heard it over the years and never really knew the difference. It's been said many times by many people.

 

[Bethany]

I think people that say they breed pet chins is a way to justify breeding junk. I don’t think you can say I breed show chins. Even if the parents were shown and placed well does not mean they will produce show quality offspring. I think the best you can do is bred chins to better the species, and show your quality animals. Even if you are a hobby breeder breeding for pets, you should still try to breed for quality.

 

[corneliuschins]

Thanks Bethany, I need to be careful using the word show and babies. It takes a trained eye to look at chins and determine if they'd be qualified parents. But, just because the parents are qualified does not in any way mean that their offspring will be "worthy". So, you are right in saying that you can't really say that you are breeding show animals. The statement that "I only breed for pet chins" is obviously doing the bare minimum, and I would hope that all of us who do decide to breed chins are doing as much as we possibly can to breed chins who have it all. But, it's been said tons of times and I'd like to understand the difference. With dogs some people breed show animals, and some people breed pets. I see and understand (don't agree) what they are saying when it comes to dogs, but I haven't understood why people say that when they are talking about chins. So, what's the distinction between breeding for show and/or pet chins? - Jessica

 

[threewingedfury]

I've had a lot of people associate my name 'Tiffany's Exotic PETS' with junk just because I call my chins pets. This doesn't mean that I don't show my animals, or purchase quality animals, this just means that I breed for friendly loving pets also. I breed to improve the species but also for people who will enjoy them.

 

[Anne-Lise]

I think that a chin being a pet or a show chin SHOULD only mean what is your 'future family goal'. What I mean is, when I'll have kits from my pair later on, my first priority will be to place them as pets. I will put lots of efforts in the socialisation, trying to get the kits to be friendly, therefore good PETS. BUT, it would not mean that I will breed junk. Exactly like Tiffany said. We want to have show quality chins but we prefer them to become pets, and not show chins.

Now the way people use it nowadays....I'm not quite sure. My first guess was like Bethany. People breed whatever they have and sell them as pets. So they can easily say that well, they don't do shows as they breed pet chins and not show chins. So it is a perfect made up excuse for breeding pet store chins...

 

[Bethany]

I was talking more about the people who say, I breed for pets, so what does their quality matter.

I'm just starting out, but this is my plan. Everyone of my animals are pets, they get playtime etc.. However, I have purchased quality breeding stock, and I hope to be able to produce show quality animals that I will show. If they are not good enough, then I hope to sell them as pets. So I can't say I breed for pets, because I would like to breed animals good enough for showing.

 

[chins1222]

the only thing i can think of

is like dogs when they say they are "pets" they mean they do not want them to be used for breeding etc

that is what i think of when i hear "pet chins"

 

[TillyChinchilla]

There is a difference in breeding "for pets" and breeding "for show". Breeding for pets means you'd be breeding two parents who are not breeding quality animals - you can't possibly be breeding them to be able to produce offspring that will be a show quality animal.

Breeding "for show" means that you intend to produce babies that will do well in a show as they mature.

Show/breeding chins can be pet chins, but they aren't to everybody.

 

[threewingedfury]

There is a difference in breeding "for pets" and breeding "for show". Breeding for pets means you'd be breeding two parents who are not breeding quality animals - you can't possibly be breeding them to be able to produce offspring that will be a show quality animal.

Breeding "for show" means that you intend to produce babies that will do well in a show as they mature.

Show/breeding chins can be pet chins, but they aren't to everybody.

Well I find it hard to really say that you breed for show. You have a higher chance of getting show quality animals with quality breeders, but you're not going to always get show quality animals, which will end up as pets. So, I don't say that I breed completely for show, because I can't always breed for show. That is why I say that I breed pets, because you don't always know if you're going to end up with a show quality animal. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but my breeders are my quality pets who will produce pets in general, not always quality show animals. Does this mean I'm breeding crap? No, it's just that I can't say, oh I'm always going to have a 1st place or better offspring. I strive to have 1st place or better, but I'm not the chinnie god.

 

[TillyChinchilla]

I don't think that there are just those two ways. Are you planning on showing the babies you produce? Then you breed for show. Your kits may not place, but your intention is to breed to the MCBA/Empress standard, right? Ultimately they will be pets, not pelts or breeding machines the rest of their life.

 

[ABBY W.]

There is a difference in breeding "for pets" and breeding "for show". Breeding for pets means you'd be breeding two parents who are not breeding quality animals - you can't possibly be breeding them to be able to produce offspring that will be a show quality animal.

I disagree with this. I breed "for pets". I say this because the kits I sell are primarily sold as house pets. I do not have the ability to travel a lot to go to shows, and thus would not consider my chinchillas "show chins". However, that does not mean they aren't show quality chins. I have done my best to secure the highest quality chinchillas I can. Most of my animals come from well-known, reputable breeders who have had success in the show circuit. To me, the distinguishment of pets and show chins has only to do with the end goal for the animal. I am very happy to see my animals go to good pet homes where they are loved and spoiled.

 

[TillyChinchilla]

I think what I am saying is being read wrong. If you are breeding animals that are"SHOW QUALITY" and you advertise as such, like above - you are not just breeding pets. Breeding for pets, to me, means that the animal has no use other than to be a pet. It shouldn't be bred, and won't place well in a show.

On the other hand, unless the chin has been to a show or evaluated by somebody, you won't know if you are breeding show quality animals. In that case, you are just adding to the pet population. Just because a chin comes from quality lines does not make it show or breeding quality.

 

[threewingedfury]

I don't think that there are just those two ways. Are you planning on showing the babies you produce? Then you breed for show. Your kits may not place, but your intention is to breed to the MCBA/Empress standard, right? Ultimately they will be pets, not pelts or breeding machines the rest of their life.

Not all will be shown, some will be sold before I show them. Does this mean the new owner will show them? No, so they will be pets. Some will definitely be shown. Am I missing something? Are there people who show every one of their offspring? I do breed to meet the standard, it doesn't mean they'll all place. All but one of my breeders has placed 1st or higher, and he's a 2nd place. My other two breeders haven't been shown due to age, but are from great lines and have been evaluated. Does this mean that they're going to give me show quality animals? I hope so, but I can't expect all show quality animals, so they end up pets.

 

[TillyChinchilla]

Not all will be shown, some will be sold before I show them. Does this mean the new owner will show them? No, so they will be pets. Some will definitely be shown. Am I missing something? Are there people who show every one of their offspring? I do breed to meet the standard, it doesn't mean they'll place.

I didn't say that you would be showing all of their offspring, I think very few breeders do. Are you pairing some chins with the prospect of having showable kits, or just select pairs?

Does this mean that they're going to give me show quality animals? I hope so, but I can't expect all show quality animals, so they end up pets.

Nobody can, and I don't think everybody expects full show quality babies every time, even out out GSC animals - it just doesn't happen. My point is - if you are breeding with animals that you feel are show quality, and you intend to show some of the offspring, you are breeding for show. The term "breeding for pets" means, to me, that you have no expectations for the kits to be quality, just good pets.

 

[threewingedfury]

I didn't say that you would be showing all of their offspring, I think very few breeders do. Are you pairing some chins with the prospect of having showable, or just select pairs?

All are paired to hopefully produce show quality animals. None are paired to produce just pets. What I'm saying is that I can't always expect my offspring to end up show quality, so they're pets to begin with. I can pair to the best of my ability to produce show quality animals, but it's highly doubtful that I'll end up with show quality animals out of every pair. For instance, with my grand show champ and reserve champion female pair - I may end up with a crap kit from them. Does this mean that I tried to get a pet quality animal from them? No, I'd love to have a show quality animal, but when they're born I see them all as pets until they reach an age when I can see that they will be worth showing. So, I'm breeding for pets that will hopefully be show quality.

The term "breeding for pets" means, to me, that you have no expectations for the kits to be quality, just good pets.

I guess I just see it differently, sorry. I see nothing wrong with selling an animal that could be show quality as a pet before it's shown. It may be a mistake on my part for not showing it or keeping it, but if someone can give it a loving home, great! I'd be much happier with a quality pet than a pet that isn't great quality.

 

[ABBY W.]

The term "breeding for pets" means, to me, that you have no expectations for the kits to be quality, just good pets.

But that is what I am saying. I DO have an expectation that my kits will be quality chinchillas. I breed quality chinchillas, and thus would produce quality offspring. I believe IF I were to take my animals to a show they would do relatively well. I do breed to the standards set by MCBA, and I strive to breed animals that would be show quality. But, because I cannot attend shows regularly, I do not show my animals. That does not mean I have lower expectations for myself as a breeder, or for the quality of the animals I breed. It means simply that, instead of going into the show circuit, my kits usually end up in pet homes. Being a pet breeder does not necessarily imply lower quality or expectations, just different results for where the animals ends up.

 

[Diva Chins]

This is my opinion, not aimed at anyone.

If you say you breed pet quality chins only, I feel that says you don't breed for the qualities that will make a chin place well at a show. That being said.

With so many 'breeders' out there these days, what is going to set you apart from the backyard breeders? A quality, healthy animal. If person A (Backyard breeder) says "I have a standard for $75" and you, person B says "I have a standard for $75" What is going to make that person choose you over person A? Quality. If you're essentially selling the 'same' animal for the same price, one animal being better than the other is always going to win.
If I had a chin presented to me from a backyard breeder "I have a white mosaic, $150. No pedigree, no information on the bloodlines, no information further than the dam and sire, I've never been to a show, I've never shown my animals" and someone else says "I have a white mosaic, $250, won grand show champion at the York show 2007" I'm going to shell out the extra $100 for a quality animal. Pet owners deserve quality too.

Pet quality is a term used by most breeders to describe an animal that isn't breeding or show quality, a chin that should be pet only (From my understanding at least). Breeding entirely 'pet quality' chins isn't going to look good on you.

ETA: Even the best of the best occasionally have crappy animals, but constantly having crappy animals just isn't good.

 

[daistarya]

I am a breeder and I breed to show. There are breeders who breed with the desire to never show, those who do show, wholesalers, pelters, etc. For myself, my foundation lines came from mostly from Whitewoods (big name breeder, now retired). I have chins from smaller breeders who also show. As a whole I try to breed to place on the show table. (I also have a big heart for chins with markings.)

To me, a pet chin can be a show chin. But a chin sold as a pet only is not meant to bred. A chin that is not good for breeding likely lacks certain qualities and would not do well to be shown. But you can always try just for the fun of it.

If you have a chinchilla and you are asking yourself if it is pet quality or show quality, then you should seek out a mentor (someone who is experienced), a nearby show, and research what qualities are desired in a show chin. You can find a lot of info online but nothing beats having someone experienced look at the chinchilla for you.

http://www.mutationchinchillas.com/ShowInfo/a_glossary_of_terms.htm

 

[Parkerspetchins]

No judgment here but this is kind of how I am interpreting it: "breeding for pets" is more about making money (and sure, what chinchilla lover doesn't love kits??!) and "breeding for show" is more about the prestige of adding quality chins into the gene pool to better the species (and yes, possibly produce better quality chinchilla "products" though not exclusively or even at all in many many cases).

A pet breeder might throw different mutations together to get a popular color in order to make a little more money. A pet breeder might not be as careful about pairing their animals for strengths and weaknesses because after all, a buyer for a pet won't care if the fur isn't as dense, most probably aren't even aware that show chinchillas have unbelievably gorgeously dense fur that you can't even imagine until you have seen it up close and touched it, it's amazing!

There are obviously other ways money can be made from breeding chinchillas other than by selling as pets, but to me the show aspect is about competition, and learning and caring that what you are producing is the best that you possibly can to whatever end you are doing it for - reputation, a hobby, or for your livelihood even.

Many breeders that are producing show quality chinchillas sell them as pets (though not all - don't get me started LOL) to us drooling chinchilla lovers but they are still producing the best quality they can and striving for the best all of the time.

This doesn't mean that as a pet lover I wouldn't love a pet store chinchilla as much as a show quality chinchilla should I happen to own both (and we have all heard the story of the GSC that came out of a pet store - or maybe I have twisted that in my head after these few years LOL), but I do have more respect (sorry!) for those that show and/or those that really (sincerely) try their best even if they don't necessarily show ). I do understand there are circumstances that might prevent those that want to show from doing it.

 

[daistarya]

One other thing that I wanted to add. I want to try to say it without causing a big deal. Please bear with me. Much of the guidelines for what constitutes a better show chin are based on what also makes a better pelt. It is the history of chins. Some breeders chose not to breed to those guidelines or attend any shows. You can get a perfectly fine chin from a breeder that chooses different guidelines. But there is a difference in pet and show. Its just apples and oranges sometimes, but thats okay too. I hope that made sense.