Really wishing I would have known...

ticklechin · Jun 9, 2009

The info is in this article, BTW about not using motility drugs for obstructions.

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

Claire D · Jun 9, 2009

Mt. Zion Chins said:
I am sorry to say, that your vet was VERY wrong, he should have been put on Reglan and cisapride and gas drops (my vet recommended Mylanta). Since he was blocked, he should have had the Reglan shots. Also he should have been on fluids (sub q). Look at my thread 'Boy do I feel good' - you did everything you thought was right. Unfortunately your vet was/is wrong. You should NOT blame yourself

No the vet was not wrong - using gut motility drugs in cases of obstruction is contra-indicated. The bowel can rupture and the chin is likely to die.
In most cases surgery is the preferred option even though chinchillas with obstruction are considered to be poor surgical candidates - Clinical Approach to the Chinchilla - Heidi L. Hoefer, DVM, Dip. ABVP.

Sometimes obstruction can be managed medically with increased fluids to soften the faecal matter, pain relief and simethicone. The impacted faeces prevent gas being expelled and that further distends (stretches) the bowel, reducing the ability of the gut/bowel to ripple (peristalsis) and move the faeces along towards the rectum. Even belly massage has risks at this point.
It is a vicious circle and it is very difficult to treat.
Gut motility drugs can only be safely introduced once the risk of obstruction has decreased and the faecal matter has softened and begun moving through the gut.

Editted for clarification: It is worth noting that there is a difference between treatment for gut stasis/bloat and obstruction. It is easy to confuse the two and it is vital to have a chinchilla competent vet fully assess any chin with gut problems - a proper and robust diagnosis is needed before any treatment is started.

Stasis/bloat is treated with fluids, pain relief, belly massage, OCC syringe feeding, simethicone, and gut stimulants.

tristanichole · Jun 9, 2009

Mt. Zion Chins said:
I am sorry to say, that your vet was VERY wrong, he should have been put on Reglan and cisapride and gas drops (my vet recommended Mylanta). Since he was blocked, he should have had the Reglan shots. Also he should have been on fluids (sub q). Look at my thread 'Boy do I feel good' - you did everything you thought was right. Unfortunately your vet was/is wrong. You should NOT blame yourself

Finn was on fluids, he was on 40 cc's both days that he was going through this. I'm not blaming myself, I just feel bad about what he had to endure. I don't agree that my vet was wrong. Reglan would have killed him with the obstruction he had.

ticklechin said:
Obstruction in the cecum or stomach and using reglan can kill the chin, the OP is right. The mass will obstruct the exit to the intestines, you want the mass still and able to absorb fluids. You want to soften the mass with sub-q fluids first for a few days then use motility drugs, even then depending on size the survival rate is very low.

Exactly, we were trying to soften this obstruction. But we did xrays and could see and feel that it wasn't moving and wasn't changing.

Claire D said:
No the vet was not wrong - using gut motility drugs in cases of obstruction is contra-indicated. The bowel can rupture and the chin is likely to die.
In most cases surgery is the preferred option even though chinchillas with obstruction are considered to be poor surgical candidates - Clinical Approach to the Chinchilla - Heidi L. Hoefer, DVM, Dip. ABVP.

Sometimes obstruction can be managed medically with increased fluids to soften the faecal matter, pain relief and simethicone. The impacted faeces prevent gas being expelled and that further distends (stretches) the bowel, reducing the ability of the gut/bowel to ripple (peristalsis) and move the faeces along towards the rectum. Even belly massage has risks at this point.
It is a vicious circle and it is very difficult to treat.
Gut motility drugs can only be safely introduced once the risk of obstruction has decreased and the faecal matter has softened and begun moving through the gut.

Yes, and unfortunately, he was a really poor candidate for the surgery. He would have never made it out. We were trying to manage it first with increasing fluids and pain reliever and I took it upon myself, without the advice from the vet, to start simethicone right away. I also started b-vitamin complex to try and get his appetite rolling and papain to try and break apart the obstruction...all with no luck. The gas was building up in his stomach really bad. I did a lot of massaging and right towards the end heard gurgling...which I don't think was a good thing.

Mt. Zion Chins · Jun 9, 2009

ok - I guess I didn't realize the obstruction was that big. but it seems to me that if the obstruction is a long poop, it has to move or that is it. The only way to get it to move is the drugs

ticklechin · Jun 9, 2009

A partial obstruction can look like a pearl necklace, a full obstruction is a mass that has no real shape. I have a picture of a necropsy photo of a large mass from a chin cecum and it just looks like a large mass of fiber, not poo shaped at all.

Claire D · Jun 9, 2009

Mt. Zion Chins said:
ok - I guess I didn't realize the obstruction was that big. but it seems to me that if the obstruction is a long poop, it has to move or that is it. The only way to get it to move is the drugs

Sadly it is not that simple.
The problem with cases of obstruction is that the drugs can cause the bowel to rupture so it is not recommended. Obstruction can lead to death of the bowel tissue and can also be associated with peritonitis, intussucception (telescoping), torsion (twisting) etc - it's far more complex than just a blockage that needs to be shifted along the GI tract which is why a vet needs to make the judgement call once the chin has been fully assessed.
Although surgery is undoubtedly risky gut stimulants can lead to an excruciatingly painful death from a ruptured bowel. The mortality rate from gastric obstruction is high in many animals regardless of the treatment.

tristanichole · Jun 9, 2009

Yes, and that is what is was. It was a full obstruction that looked like a large mass, it wasn't oblong.

Mt. Zion Chins · Jun 10, 2009

ok - I understand now. I was very lucky with Louie that it was an oblong piece of poop and the drugs helped Sorry I said the vet was wrong - just did not fully understand