Raising Chins without mom

[Cuddlebug]

Are you cleaning their bottoms with a warm, moist cloth? That is how you stimulate them to have a bowel movement.

 

[greychins]

How do you know they're constipated?

We have kits we're handfeeding... and now they're drinking water as well... but for the first several weeks of their life, all they drank was the milk that we fed them and they did fine.

 

[Tugaudzius]

Our chin baby girl had died from prolapse (3 .5 weeks old). I am still clueless as of what has caused it. I just know that the person looking after them didn't pay enough attention. She must have been constipated and bloated for a few days. The other two (boys) got some fluids and antibiotics into them and will have to be off food (goat's milk) for another 3 hrs. Last they eat was 10 hrs ago. Their bellies were a bit bloated as well, but now it looks (or maybe I just want it to look that way) more normal.
How much can they eat? I was told to feed them all they want, but could that have caused this? Their eating habits are weird: one time they would eat 6-7 ml, then the next feed (3 hrs later) they would hardly consume 1 ml; the third they might not want any, while the forth they would eat 6-7 again. Is that normal? They were fed every 3 hrs during the day and every 4 during the night. Next Monday they should be 1 month old. How often should they be fed and how much would be normal for them to eat? What is right and what is normal. Both of them weight 96-98g. Please help...

 

[Tugaudzius]

Should we still be massaging their bellies? I thought that that wasn't necessary after 3 weeks.

 

[greychins]

The way they're eating (a lot at one sitting, at the next not too much) sounds like mine - but mine are about 6 weeks old.... but sometimes they're more hungry than others. That may happen as they start to wean themselves and start to eat more of the pellets/hay and less of the milk... but I dunno how much that would happen in a 3.5 week old kit, they should be mostly on the milk at that point...

I do think they should be fed as much as they want, chins don't overeat, and it should be fairly obvious by now when they don't want any more of the milk. At least with mine, they eat and eat and then start squirming when they've had enough.

I really don't know how much they should eat at one sitting, but overall, you should be seeing a gain. Sorry if I missed this in the thread, I haven't re-read it all, but have you been weighing them everyday? If you have, as long as the general trend is a gain, that's good.

We've been feeding our girls every 2 hours, and just recently (when they fit 5 weeks) went to every 3-4.

I've never had kits on antibiotics, so I can't help you with that part, but what I said above would be for normal kits... I would assume it wouldn't be all that different if they were on medication, other than the fact that sometimes chins on medication loose their appetite and don't want to eat, so then it'd be more of an effort to get them to eat.

What do the kits have that the antibiotics are treating?

Just a suggestion... in case you're not already... especially if they're on antibiotics (but also if they're not - preventative), you might want to give them some probiotics. If they're on antibiotics, though, you'll want to wait until four hours after the antibiotic to give the probiotic, or else the antibiotic will kill the probiotic.

 

[Tugaudzius]

Do you mind me asking have you bee using syringes for feeding? If so what size? I've been weighting them every day for first 2 weeks, but after that they went to be babysat during the week (Sun-Fri) to another person, so weighted them on the weekends. We've been adding probiotic powder to their milk since day one. They drink milk and they do like their hay and shredded porridge oats. Been feeding them on goat's milk, but now I am afraid that it went bad & the person who was taken care of them didn't see it. I froze milk into cubes, so t would be easier to use and it wouldn't go bad so quickly, not sure what happened. Might try evaporated milk recipe and see is they like it. Though I know that it is not good to be jumping from one formula to another. I am just petrified that these two will get sick too.

 

[Tugaudzius]

They should be gaining at least 2 gm a day, and by day 6, possibly 3 gm a day.

Can you get goat's milk there? The canned is good, the powdered works in a pinch. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Nf4Xuc65L.jpg That's what I use. You can get it in the canned, powder, or fresh in the milk section of the grocer's. My babies went crazy for the fresh goats milk. Do you have anywhere nearby that you can get that?

Tunes,
Do you used to freeze goat's milk or just use it as long as it lasts? After I open the container it stays good only for 3 days max. Tonight I actually opened a fresh one the expiry says Aug 20 & it was bad already. There is no powder Goat's milk only cow's, should I try that?

 

[greychins]

I have some syringes that are about 6 CC size... I got them from the vet I think... I've sometimes seen similar syringes in the pet stores, but I wouldn't count on finding an adequately large one there... We had one kit that would eat 4-6 of those syringes at a time when she was 4 weeks old...

But lately, we've actually been using a glass baby-food bottle with a stopper and sipper tube to feed the babies. I actually wish I'd had thought of that at the beginning, because it eliminates the need to refill the syringe over and over when the chins are eating a ton and you're still trying to hold the chin and fill the syringe with the free hand (or at least, that's how it was here, I don't have help).

Is it possible maybe that the person you had watching them defrosted enough cubes for the week, rather than just a cube or two at a time, and so defrosted-cube-mix sat in the fridge for a week, and maybe that might be why?

Are you able to get the canned goat's milk? I'm just curious, because if you get the same brand that Tunes pictured, my cans here say they don't expire til 2013, so I'm amazed they're going bad on you...

I can't speak for Tunes, but whether I freeze the goat's milk or use it depends on the type I get. When the kits were first born, I bought canned goat's milk. I made the mix and immediately put what I wasn't going to use that sitting into ice cube trays, and then defrosted a cube or two when I would need it. I now have been able to find fresh goat's milk, and for that, I mix up about what the chins will drink in a day's worth of feedings (I keep that in a fridge in a container and pour what I need into the bottle at each sitting) and leave the carton in the fridge. My carton doesn't expire until some time in September, though I've had it open for almost 2 weeks now... and it's still good...

I wish you the best of luck...

 

[Tugaudzius]

The vet that I took chins wasn't a chinchilla one so... She said that they baby chin might have been overfed or the food might have been bad. Baby chin would take 2 ml, 1 ml, 7 ml, 3ml at feed times (it varies all the time, sometimes you have to hold them and make them eat a little). I just don't understand. I am afraid to give them all they want, so at the moment they are getting 2.5 ml & they are almost 4 weeks old. I am planing gradualy to increase it to 4 ml by Sunday. But because of what happened with their sister and that their bellies were bloated - I am petrified to feed them more. And to top they were without food for 12 hrs from Wednesday 5 p.m. till Thursday 5 a.m. as per vet's instructions. So now I am gradually increasing the amount of food they get.
There is no can goat milk, so I get cartons (fresh). It says on the pack that it must me consumed within 3 days after opening - and they are right, it spoils after 3 days (I've checked). Even unopenned carton spoiled before expiry day. I am freezing fresh goat's milk when i get a new carton, so it would last longer, but is it okay? Should I switch to Carnation's evaporated milk? I've made a bottle with a glass dropper attached to it, but they do not really drink from it. And they don't come to it unless you stick them into their mouths.
Wednesday they weighted 96 & 98g. I'm sure they will not be gaining much if I feed them so little.
Can I ask you how did you make that bottle? Doesn't it leak? I might try myself, but the little ones seem to want a rubber nipple and do not take to glass or metal.
Oh, man, so many questions... I am an emotonal wreck by now. I want them to live. Thatnks for all your help.

 

[greychins]

Well crud. That's amazing that the cartons spoil that quickly. I would think that you could freeze the goat's milk when you get it and just un-freeze what you needed at each sitting... but I'm no expert. But that's what I'd do, I mean if you freeze it right when you get it, then when you unfreeze it I would think it would still be fresh. Maybe someone else will chime in.

I have no idea about the evaporated milk, again, I hope someone with more experience with that can chime in.

I would think if they're not wanting to drink from a bottle with a glass dropper, then you probably wouldn't have any luck with the type of bottle I have. Mine's just the glass portion of a baby-food jar (minus the lid), and the Ryerson water bottle stopper and sipper tube... I got them from a breeder... they're used here in the US (with a bigger bottle of course) by people who use breeding runs for their chins... I'm not sure where you'd find that sort of stuff by you. I would think, though, that if they're not going for the glass dropper, then it wouldn't do you any good anyway, because that bottle has a glass dropper...

I know you said you made a bottle with a glass dropper.. would it be possible for you to make a bottle with the rubber nipple, maybe that would help you with feeding? I think, to some extent, if you make them, they will drink from whatever you give them. I find the glass bottle the easiest, because unlike syringes, you don't have to refill it... but at the same time, it was a bit different from a syringe, and so when I first switched the babies over to the bottle, they didn't take to it right away. But eventually, they got hungry, and I didn't go back to the syringe, and they figured out how to drink from the bottle. I think that probably would work for your situation as well... you know, just keep at it with the glass dropper (without going back to the rubber nipple) and sooner or later they should realize that if they want to eat... they're getting it out of the glass dropper.

Good luck.

 

[starleomach]

You can freeze it into ice cube trays and pull out 1 cube at a time. I wouldn't go switching thier food at this point it wouldn't be good for them to keep changing feed

 

[tunes]

You can freeze the fresh or the frozen. I am amazed that it spoils after 3 days. Here I had a quart of goat's milk and the expiration date was over a month away. I didn't use it that long, but it stayed fresh the entire time I did use it.

I agree, I would not switch food right now. They are too small to be going through feed switches, especially since one is already having problems.

 

[Tugaudzius]

Chin baby girl had died. The others seem to be doing okay. Though I am limiting their intake to 3.5 ml (and feed them every 3 hrs) at the moment and increasing it bit by bit. They always want more and I haven't have a time in last 24 hrs that they would refuse food. They are gaining weight as well. Today they are 1 month old. They weight 94-104g. They have hay and are geting goat's milk (fresh). I drive them to my brother's every morning and every afternoon I bring them back. Do you think that can upset them? The traveling. I've heard that grown chinchillas do not like it. Moved them to a big cage (lined with screening from inside - In Ireland they do not know what is Hardware Cloth!). When should I switch to 4 hrs between feeds?

 

[tunes]

I'm sorry you lost the little one.

I would not switch them to 4 hours yet. They are still both really small. Normally people will say to wean at 6 weeks and 200 gm, but I don't think yours are going to be anywhere near that in 6 weeks time, especially with the small amount that you are offering them at each feeding. Normally at this point mine would be taking 2-3 times that, and sometimes more.

Whether they get upset with the travelling or not, there isn't any other choice. They need to go there to survive. With them being so young, and this happening so often, I'm sure that they are becoming accustomed to it.

Besides, I'd bet that they will choose a little nervousness while travelling over the alternative.

 

[Tugaudzius]

I was heart broken when she died. I will be increasing their intake, cause they do seem to be hungry all the time. Thanks for your advise., I really value it. Should I let them eat all they want or should I do it gradually. Add a ml every other day?

 

[Cuddlebug]

I would let them eat all that they want. That's what they do when nursing from mom.

 

[tunes]

The only time I ever worried about stopping them from eating was with a set of trips here who I hand fed, and the one would take 10+ mL at a feeding, every 2 hours. I kept thinking he would blow up! So for 2 days I would give him 10, then the next feeding 12, then back to 10 again. He seemed to be fine with the larger amounts, so I went back to just letting him eat until he turned away.

 

[Tugaudzius]

I gave our kits 5 ml since I read your answer & they would take full 5 ml & only last night their intake started to vary from 3-5ml. So I believe they are pretty full. We still feed them every three hours. They are one month old. Up untill now we would keep the temperature up in the room (68 - 72 F) and keep the cage covered so it would be warmer for them, but is it still necessary? At what point their fur keeps them warm? What temperature should they be kept in?
Still have a blanket on one side of the cage & wood shavings on the other. Yesterday we have put a piece of wood (small branch) accross the cage and they love it, don't seem to be on the ground any more.

 

[Tugaudzius]

Okay, guys. I've just spoken to my vet (the only one in Ireland to treat chinchillas) and was told that I am supposed to wean kits (1 month old) of milk because that is what is causing them bloat (the problem with the one that died). She told me to reduce the amount of milk they get (they take 3-5 ml at the moment) & the frequency of the feeds (every 3 hrs now). Was told that hay and pallets should be sufficient... She didn't like me telling her otherwise.

 

[Mt. Zion Chins]

I am afraid she is WRONG!! - continue to feed them the milk (as much as they want) until they are at least 6 weeks old , then start reducing. That is NOT why they got bloated (who know why but it wasn't because of the milk). I have some hand fed babies who INSIST on the milk until they are 10 weeks old. They lose wgt if I discontinue too early