Caroline
Well-known member
But you also know how to evaluate an animal and when you sell one you base the price on the animal as a whole, not just the colour. You tell the buyer exactly what they are getting as well.
Pricing Chins by Colour Alone?
- Thread starter Caroline
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But you also know how to evaluate an animal and when you sell one you base the price on the animal as a whole, not just the colour. You tell the buyer exactly what they are getting as well.
To AZchins. We sometimes have chins that we know won't be an animal that will get the owner good comments on the show table This is especially true when we are breeding for a specific trait. I have two great colored violet males that don't have very good confirmation. They are already five or six months old. I have purposely bred clear color to my clearest color to try and set that elusive trait. I knew they would not have great size nor confirmation. I will sell these as "pets" for a lesser price but will let the buyer know that they won't produce "show" quality and I am not really selling them as "breeders". However, I represent them for what they are and IF someone buys them "just to get the color" or because they can't afford a top quality Violet and can't live without that color I do so. You are so right about the price not going up over the years. Part of that is because there are many breeders now with just a few that sell pets. We like you wonder sometimes when we do taxes. I tell my friends that my husband does this instead of playing golf.
Dragonflye
Well-known member
In my mind this statement pretty much defines a back yard breeder- which is why you will never get them to change their ways. They breed the "rarer" color chins and are in it only for the money...
Caroline
Well-known member
Oh and JoAnne, the girls are gorgeous! Thank you! The beige is Adelaide and the standard is Emma after my 3 x great grannys who lived in India.
Caroline
Well-known member
Sadly a lot of buyers do not realize that the price is inflated and end up buying an inferior chin from a BYB just because it was a pretty colour.
Zoaea
O.o
You seem to be making this point from they eyes of a breeder, what good is conformation to a pet owner. If I ever sell chins my 'pet' quality animals will have a standard price, the prices go up from there if the animal is valued as a breeder, and the people buying it would change. especially if you had hundreds of animals to sell each year I don't see a breeder nit picking over 10$ price difference between their beiges.
Also I imagine most animals being sold as kits are just pets, if your concerned about show quality and breeding you should be picking up older animals that you can
judge the quality of yourself.
I remember about 6 years ago I bought a pet violet beige girl (not for breeding) for 450$ and her sister a violet for 350$. Why did I pay that much when the breeder had beiges and greys for 100? Because I love the soft velvety color of those two girls and fell in love. If they had been scruffy and ugly from super poor breeding practices, like my first chin, they wouldn't have even caught my eye. That breeder had set prices for her colored pet animals... And she even told me that if the beige/vt girl had been breeder quality she would have kept her.
It seems to me like maybe you want a 'rare' color but dont want to pay over a certain price... either give up on that color or find a different breeder. I got my beauty queen BV for 189$ WITH her cage, simple because the breeder was closing out her herd and wanted her favorite girl to be in a loving home rather than a breeding run. She is the sweetest girl ive ever owned too Shop around for prices, I think its probably healthy for chinchillas to be 200-400$ as people will view them as valuable rather than throw aways like other rodents, try convincing your mom to pay 300$ vet bill for rat, vs that a chinchilla she paid 400$ for plus cage... hard but true to real life.
Sycamore Chins
Well-known member
That is why people should do research before they purchase an animal!!! Otherwise they are at the whim of whatever breeder's stoop they wind up on. And no one is forcing them to pay these 'inflated' prices. It is their choice whether they pull out their wallet or not!
When I get e-mails left and right for just weaned kits, you better believe I'm going to ask more for them, when I can't sell a gorgeous, ribboned (and sweet) adult standard male for a measly $125. And when I get e-mails for 'anything but a standard' you better believe I'm going to ask more for anything but a standard!
Caroline
Well-known member
Lol, I had to giggle, I doubt that my 86 year old mother really cares what I spend on vet bills, considering the thousands of dollars she has spent herself over her lifetime.
If you go up a few posts you will read that I did just make a purchase of two excellent quality chins and as a matter of fact I paid more for the standard than the mutation because she is the better of the two. You will be seeing her on the showtable in April, the other one will be put into breeding.
As I said before, I am not talking about breeders who have dedicated their lives and their incomes to producing quality chins, but rather backyardbreeders who have never set foot in a show, never had their chins evaluated and think that they can make money breeding chinchillas.
(BTW, I learned at very young age that if you are going to breed any kind of animal to not expect to make any money because when all is said and done you will have spent more than you made. You breed because you love the animals and you want to produce a better animal than you already have)
A member of another forum that I am on said it very well.
"I just want to put in my two cents real quick.. LOL! I understand everyones views and actually agree with them all. I believe Caroline was referring to BYB and not breeders in general and especially none of the breeders in this group.
I've owned chinchillas for going on 11 years now and I'm just now looking into purchasing my foundation stock from other breeders so I can begin to show and breed. I will gladly pay more for the color I want because it's what I want to specialize in and I not only want the color but the quality as well. I would not purchase my foundation stock from a backyard breeder EVER. If I were to purchase from a BYB you bet I'd be paying for the color of the chinchilla alone and not for the confirmation, etc because that's all BYB know about chinchillas is the "more rare" the color the more money they can charge. They don't care about confirmation (heck I bet most of them don't know chinchillas can be shown!), fur quality, and especially any health problems the parents could be passing down to their offspring. They're just throwing two colors together and hoping they get that color or a "better" one that they can sell... Bottom line is they're out for profit not for the well being or bettering the species as a whole.
As for the color prices up on websites, I think most breeders are putting it out there because there is such a huge interest in any color but standard grey that it helps limit e-mails and calls about pricing. I'm sure depending on the quality, genetics, health, and even temperament the price can be more or less above the prices listed. We all know a show quality extra dark ebony will be sold for more then a pet quality one. And I know when I breed if someone is interested in having a show quality ebony as a pet and I know they'll spoil the chin rotten you bet I'd sacrifice price for them.. unless I really wanted the chin to be shown then I'd probably sell it for the same price and hope they would be interested in another. LoL! But, BYB know that people who want a certain color will pay more and they sadly take advantage of the pet owners."
Thank you Amanda.
Spoof
Kung Fu Chinny!
I love chins but at the end of the day they are a business.
I charge based on supply and demand. The less of a color I produce, the more it is going to cost you. Since there are no other breeders in my state, people are more than happy to pay the price to get the color they want. Here's the kicker: They don't care what qualities it has so long as it is the right age and color. So why not charge more so I can afford to go to shows than less and not make ends meet?
It's funny you mention this "price based on color thing" when you work with a specific breed of horse only. You pay a lot more for Lippazaner than you would for a grade unknown with amazing conformation and gaits - just because of the breed.
I am dealing with this with a friend right now. She's got "Warmblood" in her head and is passing over Joe Schmoe with her desired amazing lofty gaits (at half the price!) for wild-eyed stiff Holsteiner POS we are going to see this weekend.
Drives me nuts, but for some reason she feels that if she spends 10K on a horse it will be "the one".
People are the same way with pets.
I charge based on supply and demand. The less of a color I produce, the more it is going to cost you. Since there are no other breeders in my state, people are more than happy to pay the price to get the color they want. Here's the kicker: They don't care what qualities it has so long as it is the right age and color. So why not charge more so I can afford to go to shows than less and not make ends meet?
It's funny you mention this "price based on color thing" when you work with a specific breed of horse only. You pay a lot more for Lippazaner than you would for a grade unknown with amazing conformation and gaits - just because of the breed.
I am dealing with this with a friend right now. She's got "Warmblood" in her head and is passing over Joe Schmoe with her desired amazing lofty gaits (at half the price!) for wild-eyed stiff Holsteiner POS we are going to see this weekend.
Drives me nuts, but for some reason she feels that if she spends 10K on a horse it will be "the one".
People are the same way with pets.
Caroline
Well-known member
Lol, I don't have Lipizzans because of their colour, do you have any idea the work involved in keeping a white horse clean! I was recently chatting with the chief rider of the Spanish Riding School and I asked him what the School's secret was to keeping all of those stallions so sparkly white. I ess hoping for the name of some wonder shampoo. His answer was that they pick stalls 24/7 so there is never a chance of a horse getting stained. My horses will have to remain mudballs them.
I have them because I love their intelligence, the fact that they bond so tightly with their person, that they will protect those that they love. I love tje amazing incredible magic that you feel when you are in their presence.
Actually, in regards to the price of the Lipizzans, you would be shocked. We are talking here about one of the oldest breeds in Europe, a breed that was bred specifically for its conformation, its trainability to perform certain tasks, its ability to do the airs, its extremely high intelligence and its unique conformation, yet my friends are unable to sell them for a fraction of what they are worth. My one friend was given a prix st georg trained stallion who is now being used to train Olympic riders, this horse was originally listed for $40,000. I purchased my new mare for $3500, a horse who is trained 2nd level in dressage and was originally listed for $20,000. My other mare was given to me and has rare bloodlines. When my best friend had to sell off half of her herd she did so.at a huge loss of well over $50,000 for some of the finest Lipizzans in the country.
Spoof
Kung Fu Chinny!
Yea, but you get that with any horse regardless of breed. I have gotten that with every horse I have worked with. Nothing more exciting than having a horse know the sound of your car and come galloping up and race you along the fence as you approach the barn (mares know to meet you AT the barn, lol). Whinny and for attention and excitement to see you. I get that with every equine I work with. There have been a few ho-hum geldings but they all come when I whistle. I don't like to pay money for horses. I am cheap. I've paid far more for chinchillas than I ever have a horse.
Still, it is the same point. You buy a breed because of the breed. 75% of my market buys chinchillas because of the color. The other 20% buys solely based on age and will take any color. 5% want the cheapest thing they can get. As someone who is not horse breed-biased I don't understand why someone will pay 20K for a two year old Oldenburg when I found them an arabian x draft that has identical conformation and better gaits for $3500.
You know, it's probably because I don't breed horses. I don't care what breed it is so long as it looks like I like it to look and is functional.
So yea, I fully understand the methodology of pricing by color (or breed) alone. They can get that much money so why not.
Caroline
Well-known member
Yea, but you get that with any horse regardless of breed. I have gotten that with every horse I have worked with. Nothing more exciting than having a horse know the sound of your car and come galloping up and race you along the fence as you approach the barn (mares know to meet you AT the barn, lol). Whinny and for attention and excitement to see you. I get that with every equine I work with. There have been a few ho-hum geldings but they all come when I whistle. I don't like to pay money for horses. I am cheap. I've paid far more for chinchillas than I ever have a horse.
Still, it is the same point. You buy a breed because of the breed. 75% of my market buys chinchillas because of the color. The other 20% buys solely based on age and will take any color. 5% want the cheapest thing they can get. As someone who is not horse breed-biased I don't understand why someone will pay 20K for a two year old Oldenburg when I found them an arabian x draft that has identical conformation and better gaits for $3500.
You know, it's probably because I don't breed horses. I don't care what breed it is so long as it looks like I like it to look and is functional.
So yea, I fully understand the methodology of pricing by color (or breed) alone. They can get that much money so why not.
Well then next time you are up in the Seattle area you will need to come and ride a Lipizzan and experience the difference.
Spoof
Kung Fu Chinny!
Thanks for the offer!
I might actually take you up on that. I'm headed up to the PNW in the fall. I like to try as many horses as I can.
So far my smoothest ride was a 24 year old appaloosa mare in Idaho. A true pleasure at all four gaits - and she could beat the QH's off the line every time.
Zoaea
O.o
The vet example was not for you personally, it was for people in general. That point was that if chinchillas go for more money, people in general will treat them will a little more respect. It's part of human mentality. It is also a generalization, there are always people that would care for a free animal the same as a 2000$ animal. Heck I was able to convince my mother to spend 1000$ on a guinea pig's cancer treatment when I was 12.
And like I pointed out, of course people that want breeder chins and show winners will pay on a different scale, my point still stands that from a pet buyers perspective, color is what matters. A pet owner could tell somewhat if an animal was poorly furred but not the difference between one slightly off colored chin and another blue toned one... Why would they want to pay more for something they cant distinguish and wont matter in the long run as long as their pet is healthy?
So... I still think set prices for PET level chins is something most breeders probably do. Animals that are breeding and show quality would be sold to different kinds of people and their prices could fluctuate on quality. Prices don't make a BYB, poor practices in breeding do. (I also think your whole thread is rather pointless and with out much merit as you seem to mock anyone that offers their point of view/an explanation of why they price the way they do.)
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Caroline
Well-known member
Actually the point that I was trying to make was not that Chins shouldn't go for more money but that BYB, who know very little about them are selling them, not by their qualilty, but rather by their colour, nothing more. It would be great if reputable breeders who have invested so much could get more for their chins, I am all for that. I have no problem paying several hundred for a chin, I just payed more for high quality standard than for a high quality beige because I know that she is worth more. I have nothing against any of you or what you are doing, I appreciate all the hard work and effort that you have invested in bettering your lines. I was just expressing my frustration about BYB, whether they be breeding chins, German Shepherds, Lipizzans (yes that breed has been a victim of a few of those too) do in order to make a buck or two and the way that they scam unknowing people in order to make more money.
