Poop/hay/food change questions.

[corley]

Alright.. I've had Freddie for about a month and a week or two now. He started off on the Nutriphase food as that was what Petsmart was feeding him.. and now I am doing the 4 week transition to Oxbow and I am getting concerned.. When he was on the Nutriphase he never seemed to have any problems with soft poops, but now that he is about 3 weeks into the change over to Oxbow, a lot of his poops seem to be very very soft and with a little bit of liquid buildup around them. I am not sure if this is related to the food change so I am worried, is it normal for them to have soft poops when changing over, or not?

Also, I have noticed that he eats almost none of his hay anymore.. it's fresh, perfectly green with the nice bushy stuff in it he used to like so much, but used to he would eat about 50% of the hay I would give him and dump the other 50% all over the ground, but now he eats probably less than 1 percent and doesn't even dump any on the ground..

One last thing, whenever I first got him for the first month or so I gave him tap water, and just recently in the past week or two, I switched him over to just straight Nestle bottled water, as I don't have a water purifier or anything, and these soft poops have made me be concerned about giardia.. I have a vet that I could go to, but they are located about an hour and a half away, so I was just wondering if you guys could help me first.

Basically it all boils down to, what do you think the chances are he could have giardia, why doesn't he eat his hay anymore, and is it normal for his poops to get soft sometimes when switching food, or do I need to get him/his poops checked out?

Also, could stress/getting scared/nervousness/excited cause diaherra in a chin.? He does not have soft poops all the time, just sporadically, but times when he gets nervous about someone he isnt usually around, or tonight when he knocked over a bottle of something and he ran off, he went and pooped probably 10 soft terds.. Also, when he gets really excited and hopping around in his play area, he'll do it as well, but probably less than a fourth of the poops he does in his cage are usually soft..

 

[sublime5981]

I doubt the food is the cause. An abrupt change could cause it, but you are doing a gradual switch. I don't think it would be stress related either if you've had him for about six weeks and the soft poo is recent. Unless you have changed something in his environment.
I think the tap water is the most likely culprit. Maybe you could post pics and someone can confirm or deny if it looks like giardia. Only a vet can tell you for sure though.
ETA: If he isn't acting normally in addition to the soft poo, I would definitely go see a vet.

 

[Stackie]

Squishy poo can be caused by feed change, stress, or parasites. Is the poo mucousy and/or does it have a smell to it?

As for him not eating his hay, my chins will only eat certain brands of hay. They are picky. The only hay most will eat the most of is American Pet Diner 2nd cut timothy and mountain grass. Some of them will not even touch Oxbow hay.

 

[mishellyshel]

you can try the infant gas drops. you can buy the generic brand at walmart or walgreens or any drug store. you can give them 1 CC a few times a day. the mucous stuff may be gas coming out. sometimes that happens with a food change.

my chins wasted a lot of hay, until i found one they like. now they seem to waste a little less.

 

[TheNobleFight]

Corley.... We are dealing with this exact situation right now. A possible contaminated water source got 2 chins sick in less than a day.
These are things that worked for us...
First, if you dont have one you need to buy a scale... http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10098024 It is about $15 to $20 at Walmart. Get a digital one in the kitchen section that reads in grams, ounces, Lbs, Kilos, and has a TARE function. It is the only way to see if your chin is losing/gaining weight, and whether your treatments are working. It also allows you to weigh his food before and after, to gauge his daily intake.
Things to consider buying:
PB8 Acidophilus Vegetarian Capsules or Bene-Bac: http://www.amazon.com/Acidophilus-Vegetarian-Vcap-Nutrition-Now/dp/B0002BB6W8 or http://www.amazon.com/Bene-Bac-Gel/dp/B0017NPIJC These are high potency Acidophilius caps that replace good bacteria in the gut that may be lost from charcoal or destroyed by illness or Antibiotics. We tried the chewable kind but these are noticeably stronger. You can break open the capsules and sprinkle on food, shreddies, or treats. If he is picky, we found putting a dab of honey or Black strap molasses on a shreddie and coating with PB8 works well.

POST shredded wheat spoon size: http://www.postcereals.com/cereals/post_shredded_wheat/?id=spoon You dont have to buy POST brand just make sure there is nothing else on them like frosting.

Organic Peppermint Tea: http://www.amazon.com/Traditional-Medicinals-Organic-Peppermint-16-Count/dp/B0009F3PJ4 I am sure there are other brands out there but this is what we have available. Cut the bag open and feed them the crushed leaves or mix with honey and a shreddie. Susan recommended this to us, I thought it would not work. But it works great at stimulating their digestion and making them want to eat again.

Life Line, Dyne, Albon, Charcoal Shreads: http://chocolatechinchillas.com/id14.html Dawnna pretty much owns the market on these items, and everyone here uses them. The Albon and Charcoal are useful in treating Diarrhea/toxic ingestion. Just make sure you use acidophilus after using charcoal as it soaks up everything in their gut including good bacteria.

A feeding syringe: http://www.petstore.com/ps_viewitem...se&utm_campaign=pscseggl2&utm_content=FW19100 Just in case you need to hand feed him...



I dont like going to Vets... And if you read the posts from new owners with chin problems, you will quickly deduce that most Vet's do not know how to properly diagnose & treat chinchillas. They rule out Malocclusion with no X-Rays, they over medicate with strong Antibiotics causing GI-stasis, and then tell you there is not much they can do for you as they charge you $1000. I am by no means discrediting Veterinarians, there are excellent ones who care about the quality of care, and not supplementing their waiting rooms with 50" plasma TV's. But I would use their services as a last resort to conventional home treatments.
Most important keep everyone updated here, sometimes they will think of things you may have missed, and could save you a trip to the Vet.

 

[shubbles]

If its got bad i'd say go to a vet. I agree that the normal vets that take care of cats, dogs , normal animals have no idea what they're doing, but exotic vets specialize in the care of unusual animals and, i've never really had any experience, but it seems like from what people say on here that most do a good job. I have no idea what could have caused this, hopefully others can help you out

 

[Stackie]

I dont like going to Vets... And if you read the posts from new owners with chin problems, you will quickly deduce that most Vet's do not know how to properly diagnose & treat chinchillas. They rule out Malocclusion with no X-Rays, they over medicate with strong Antibiotics causing GI-stasis, and then tell you there is not much they can do for you as they charge you $1000. I am by no means discrediting Veterinarians, there are excellent ones who care about the quality of care, and not supplementing their waiting rooms with 50" plasma TV's. But I would use their services as a last resort to conventional home treatments.

I'm not saying this chin has an infection, but if the chin has a parasitic infection it needs to see a vet regardless to get antibiotics. You can't rule out the fact that the chin has or does not have parasites without a vet performing an exam on a fresh stool sample. No home treatment should be used to get rid of parasites...the only thing that can get rid of them is a prescribed medication, and even then it can be hard. Your chins should be seen by a vet if you suspect a parasitic infection, which is what it sounds like since you mentioned contaminated water. None of the things you mentioned will get rid of parasites, they will only treat the symptoms. Plus a vet can tell you if your chins even have a parasite.

If a parasitic infection is not treated the infection will only get worse, zapping the chin of nutrients. You run the risk of dehydration from the diarrhea, severe weight loss, and even rectal prolapse due to straining from the diarrhea.

While most vets do not know much about chins, there are those that do- which is why it's said to find one BEFORE you get the chin, so you have one in case something should happen. I am fortunate to have 2 wonderful vets that work at the same clinic that are quite knowledgeable in regards to chins, I just have to drive an hour. It's the same case with many other people having to travel for a good competent chin vet.

 

[mishellyshel]

i agree with stacie, as well as the fact that most vets can test feces for giardia without the pet having to be seen. usually this is the case if the vet HAS seen your pet in the past. a vet that is used to working with chins understands the stress is can put on your pet. in the event your vet allows you to bring in a fecal sample. put a few fresh ones in a plastic ziploc and keep in fridge until you are en route.
in the event of a parsite, antibiotics will be prescribed and then you can use all the good ideas to maintain good flora in the intestinal tract and keep your chins gut moving.

 

[corley]

Alright, yesterday I was beginning to think that things were getting better, they weren't even noticeably bad at all.. But tonight I get home and there is soft poop everywhere, and it is smeared all over his wheel, over his house, over his shelves, etc. So I guess tomorrow I am going to be finding some stuff to buy to make him better (infant's gas drops, acidophilis, a scale to monitor progress, and what else?)

And to answer some questions, no the poops do not stink, but they are very soft and even if they are an hour or two old, you can still pretty much smoosh them.. they are not normal little hard chin pellets.. Also, they have lots of mucous, like the area around where the poop is if it is on a hard surface looks like it is surrounded in water..

But he is not acting any different at all.. no lethargy whatsoever, he just does his normal things of hopping from side to side of the cage and running on his flying saucer for hours on end.. I havent seen him eating any more than usual but I have noticed that he drinks a LOT of water, I dont know if this is normal for chins, but it seems like every 10 mins that he is awake running around his cage, he is going to get some water. That's what makes me question if it is Giardia, because I thought it parasitic infections like that usually they become very lethargic..

 

[corley]

Also, TheNobleFight, you posted those Acidophilus capsules from Amazon, those are pretty pricey.. Would these from walmart work all the same: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=11997254#ProductDetail ?

 

[AZChins]

The walmart capsules have a much lower organism count and there's only 30 per bottle. I don't think that they work nearly as well as the PB8. The PB8 is great because you get 7 billion bacteria count and they're shelf stable. There's also 120 capsules per bottle.

 

[corley]

Alright, just ordered some Albon, Life Line, and Char Shreds from dawnna and about to order the Acidophilus from amazon.. Psshh.. I'll find a kitchen scale in walmart tomorrow..

 

[Stackie]

If there is that much mucous I would take the chin to the vet to be tested for parasites before self treating the symptoms. You need to be sure there is not a parasitic infection going on. If there is, no matter how many you things you get to treat the symptoms, you aren't going to get rid of the problem without a vet prescribed antibiotic.

 

[corley]

Well hmmm.. Do you think even a vet that does not specialize in exotic animals would be able to test his poo? The nearest exotic vet is probably an hour and a half away. Would takin a baggy full of pellets suffice for them to be able to run tests on em?

Also, I weighed him today, he is 372g.. That's a little on the low side isn't it? Then again, I am not 100 percent sure if he is even full grown.. Guess Ill have to be watching out.

 

[Stackie]

Yes, 372 is a low weight for an adult chinchilla. Some chinchillas are just small, but that is very small.

Can you feel his bones? Does his backbone seem to be prominent? If so, something is definitely going on.

A local vet should be able to test the poo. It will need to be very fresh, though.

 

[corley]

Just went and felt him.. his backbone does sort of poke out a bit... he still eats the same amount he always has though, I monitor that... I truly wonder if it is oxbow food... I finally went 100 percent oxbow last night, and I am noticing he will take a small bite of the food and then throw it away.. and when I would look at his food bowl during the transition period, it would almost look like he would eat all of his other brand of food, but then take one bite of the oxbow and just chunk it because he doesn't like it.

Hmmmm... Guess I should call my local vet and tell them im bout to bring a bagful of chinchilla terds in for them to test... Wonder how much that'll cost and what weird looks ill get in this redneck area of the country..

 

[corley]

Question though, should I wait and try to treat it myself before the vet venture.. or do you think I should just go ahead and get it over with and take his poop to the vet?

 

[Stackie]

Oxbow is much, much better than Nutriphase. I feed all 7 of my chins Oxbow and they are healthy as can be. A chin will not starve itself just because it doesn't like it's feed. When they get hungry, they will eat. If I remember correctly, Nutriphase contains raisins, sunflower seeds, among other things. It's like candy to chinchillas. If you give a child a plate of candy or vegetables, obviously they will go for the candy. It's much the same with chinchillas. Once he realizes he won't be getting the unhealthy better tasting food anymore, he will start to eat the Oxbow more.

At this point with the mucous and very low weight I would not self treat. You need to find out what is going on with him. If parasites are ruled out, then you can start using the at home treatments to try to clear up the diarrhea. Parasites can't be cured by any home treatment without antibiotic like I have already said.

 

[corley]

Well the Nutriphase I was feeding him was the standard.. the kind without all the extra crap.. I knew not to do that, haha. The thing is, the few days before yesterday it was sort of bad, then yesterday it was pretty bad, but then today it is just not bad at all.. (his poops that is) I am just unsure what to do! His behavior is no different, I can tell he isn't dehydrated because he is drinking a lot of water and still peeing a lot.. and he is still eating and definitely pooping a lot.. He did eat a bunch of his hay last night..

Could any of this be caused by him moving into a new cage last thursday? When it comes to stress that is, or does the mucousy poop kind of rule out the stress factor?

I dont know what I would do without all of yall.. You are all so helpful and I think every chin owner should be a member of this forum..

 

[Stackie]

Just take some of the poop in to be tested. It doesn't take long, and my local vet office didn't even charge me to do it. You can just drop it off and they can call you with the results. I can't imagine it would be very expensive. It won't hurt anything just to go get it tested.

Once you absolutely know it isn't parasites, then like I said, you can try the other treatments to clear up the diarrhea. It's in the best interest of your chinchilla to do it. There is no sense in scooting around it when it doesn't cost much and doesn't take up much time. By getting it tested you will be able to know how to get it treated sooner.