Parents of toddlers/preschoolers: Opinions please.

[3CsMommy]

I live with a 3.5 year old now, we'll call him A. A, right now, is a defiant little pain in the tail much of the time. You ask him to pick something up, he calls you a poopy head/pork chop (instead of idiot which his father taught him) or picks up the squirt bottle for removing cats from Christmas tree and firing it at you.

He regularly sits on the dog in spite of knowing he's not supposed to. He likes to grab/pull/step on cats' tails, both the ones that pre-date him as family members and my foster kittens. He's especially not nice to the boy kitten, though I let him push the female to the point that she batted him with claws and he leaves her alone now. Yesterday he got a spanking (the second I've ever given) for choking the boy kitten and dragging him around the floor by his neck. The problem is, this kitten is so lovey and gentle, he won't defend himself, so I can't let Rumble just scratch/bite the kid the same way Tie Dye did; he'll never do it and he'll end up hurt before A. does.

How does this relate to chins? Well, A's bedroom is right down the hall from mine, where Crash's cage is kept. I want to make A aware of how to act around the chin before the cage is moved into the basement for the summer when the bedrooms get hot, even with the AC running. We started by introducing him to my mouse and hamster, and he was pretty good about sitting quietly while they ran on his lap and shoulder, but of course Chins are a completely different story. The mouse and hammy are small, which I think A. realizes means fragile, but Crash is much larger, faster moving and might appear tougher than he is b/c of all the fluff, especially because A. is used to cats and kittens.

I have a very bad feeling about trusting A. around the chin or his cage. His parents aren't as... cautious as I am about how he treats the pets, and I'm about to go out of town for the holiday through the New Year. I'm worried that my little guy is going to get stressed/hurt by this child, who is, I think, a little lacking in the discipline department, while I'm not here to supervise and teach him the safe way to interact with Crash.

So, parents of both chins and bi-pedal children: What do/did you do to impress upon the kid(s) the necessity of being gentle, quiet, not squeezing/restraining the chin improperly, not sticking fingers in the cage, etc.? I don't want to have to spank him again before rushing Crash to an E-vet with a degloved tail, or the kid to the ER for a chin bite, and I don't want to come back to a fur-chewed chinchilla because his parents wouldn't keep him the heck away from the cage.

My other option is to ask my boyfriend's family if it would be all right to bring Crash with me for the visit, but they also have a cat and 2 large, nosy, and rather prey-driven dogs. I'm not sure a 13 hr. drive + new digs would be any better for Crash than just staying put.

Any input welcome.

 

[tunes]

There is no way I would leave any animal of mine within reach of that little......child. I'm sorry, but at 3-1/2 my kids had a healthy respect for animals and would have had blistered butts if they tried to strangle a cat.

I would get a cat carrier and take the chin with me. Keep him in a cat carrier in your room. Better a small cage where he gets bored than coming back and finding him dead. A kid that doesn't respect animals, also most likely isn't going to respect limits as to "this is my area." My nephew was like this. He kicked his dog with steel toed boots when he was little. I almost threw him through a wall. He just sat there, kicking over and over, while his mom was off in freaking lala land. Nothing pisses me off more.

Christmas is looming large. I don't think that you are going to be able to train this kid in any way to be more respectful of animals in that short of time.

I'll tell you something else too, his parents need smacked. My kid would have called me a poopy head or any other name ONCE and that would have been the end of that. I detest smart mouth kids, especially at that age. You expect some level of stupidity from teenagers, but allowing a kid that age to run rampant is just asking for huge behavioral issues later on in childhood.

 

[menagerie]

I agree with Tunes. I wouldn't let that kid around any of my animals. He either needs to be kept away from all animals and taught respect. I realize he's still young, but that kind of behavior brings "future serial killer" to mind.

 

[Bethany2386]

Amen Peggy! My stepkids know better than to really smart off to me or call me or my husband ANY names! And when I first met them, they were not taught respect for people or animals. I got tired of the disrespect very quickly. I told my husband (boyfriend at the time) that if he didn't teach them to respect him and I, then i would not stay around. Well, now I will tell you that they respect me and my animals. And my husband is happy about that. We hear all the time from my hubby's ex that our daughter smarts off to her and she can't control her... UGH! Well, she is 7 and you never taught her to respect you is what I think. And teaching a child to respect animals early will help him under respect for people too. I mean honestly, I can't stand the kids that smart off to their parents. If I had done that to mine, I would have been knocked on my butt!

 

[lauralynne]

I'd be tempted to take Crash along on the trip and make sure he's in your guest room and the door stays shut.
IF you want to try explaining to A about chinchillas, I did a little demo w/ my kiddos (youngest is 4). I told them that chinchilla bones are about as thick as a toothpick. I then took a toothpick, let them all see it, and snapped it in two. They understand perfectly now that if they are not handled properly they can be hurt easily.
The only thing is, my kids don't act the way A. does. It would take discipline from his parents to have him act decent...and I don't think you have time before the holidays. My kiddos know that if they better not open a cage, stick something in a cage, etc. They are allowed to hold the chins, but only after I get them out and either hand them to them, or they're sitting in the play area.

 

[menagerie]

I did a little demo w/ my kiddos (youngest is 4). I told them that chinchilla bones are about as thick as a toothpick. I then took a toothpick, let them all see it, and snapped it in two. They understand perfectly now that if they are not handled properly they can be hurt easily.
The only thing is, my kids don't act the way A. does. It would take discipline from his parents to have him act decent...and I don't think you have time before the holidays. My kiddos know that if they better not open a cage, stick something in a cage, etc. They are allowed to hold the chins, but only after I get them out and either hand them to them, or they're sitting in the play area.

That probably worked for your kids because they had respect for things. I can see "precious little A" testing the theory to see if he can break the chin.

 

[lauralynne]

That's so scary!

 

[Riven]

That kids needs a wooden spoon... oh I'm all for spankings.

Nothing you do will help unless you are the primary caretaker or the parents support your efforts. He needs discipline, consequences, and consistancy.

I just went through this with my friend, she has a 3 yr old that was whiny, always "needed" her, and expected to be carried everywhere even though my friend is normally like 110#'s soaking wet and 9 months pregnant. The child did it because she was allowed. My kids would come home with bad habits when she watched them for me while I was at school... that same stuff her daughter did. But I never had any problems when she was just with us. She stayed with us the last 3 nights and we had no problems at all.

She's doing a lot better, but she still doesn't follow through. A child can see an empty threat better than the best poker player can read a bluff. Don't say it, if you don't mean it.

I am not sure what your relationship with A's parents are but I would tell them that you dont find this acceptable and you live there too, and on top of that you're concerned about your "child" being safe around Demonizer... I mean A.

If you can't take him, I'd lock the cage with a lock so it can't be opened. You can feed by dumping in food, and water bottle's on the outside. But again... will someone responsible be watching after Crash... from the way it sounds you're the only responsible one in the house.

 

[Bethany2386]

My kids would love to be able to hold our chins, but I refuse to let them. Sky, my girl, would try to squeeze. I just know she would, then she would say, "I forgot"... UGH! I wish I could teach her by using a toothpick, but she would use the I forgot excuse all the time. And she is 7.

 

[3CsMommy]

Thanks everybody. It's just a frustrating situation b/c the parents see their fragile little premee in NICU who slept on Daddy's chest for the first 6 mo. of his life every time they look at their now 3.5 year old son w/ a smart mouth, violent temper, whiny streak, and a little sister on the way. I'm here as a housekeeper/nanny while I try to get back on my feet after being kicked out in Sept., but jobs are hard to find in this neck of the woods.

At any rate, it's kind of hard to enforce rules and discipline when a parent (usually Mom) interrupts from the other room and takes whatever I've just said/done down a level. Example: I use a Stop Light model of behavior control. He gets scolded twice, and on the 3rd he gets a time out or if it's something violent toward me/the animals, a spanking. I'll tell him he gets a 1 for not listening, and 5 minutes later give him a 2 for being mean to an animal only for Mom to tell me it's been too long since the first number and I should restart instead of escalating. In 5 minutes, even a preschooler should have the short term memory to retain "No".

My thoughts on it are that if it's one of the animals he's been violent toward, I should spank him first and worry about escalation later. I learned not to pick up cranky cats by 1) getting scratched and 2) having an adult show me the signs of a cranky cat so I could know when not to pick him up. I had that down pretty well by the time I was 3, and I only saw the cat that taught me a couple times a month. What I don't understand is that it's only the animals and those of us in the house all the time that he's like this with. His teachers give him excellent comments in cooperation, manners, etc.

The other issue with taking Crash with me is the duration of the visit (almost 3 weeks), unless I can scrape together the money for a plane ticket back after the holiday, which I can't. The Mom would be fully capable of taking care of him while I'm gone, but she'd also let A. help/be there, and all it takes is a split second for something to go wrong. It sounds like taking him with me is the best option, so I'll ask about it tonight when I talk to Clint and see what his family thinks.

Thanks again, everybody, for reassuring me that I shouldn't be okay with the situation. I sometimes wonder if I'm just too overprotective of the animals in my care since I'm not a mother of a human. Hearing this kind of reaction from dual pet and kid mom's makes me feel a lot more sane.

 

[menagerie]

There is no way I would leave any of my animals in that situation for a weekend, let alone three weeks. You will return to a badly injured or dead chin.

 

[tunes]

If you absolutely cannot take him with you, find a petsitter. We have lots of members up your way. Surely there is someone who would be willing to help out.

Gads - 3 weeks? Not a showball's chance in h#ll.

 

[3CsMommy]

I'm actually in the same town as Dee though I'd hate to impose on her last minute like this. We'll have to see what the family says about Crash coming with us.

 

[Hazurdouscowgirl]

That kids needs a wooden spoon... oh I'm all for spankings.

Oh, the wooden spoon. When I was a kid, my mom used the spiked wooden spoons you use to dish out spaghetti! I agree with spankings too, when needed. But since he's not your kid, that's a line you probably shouldn't cross. I think a good chin bite will teach this kid that if you don't respect animals, then they won't respect you right back. But then again, I'm old fashioned and most people don't feel that way.

Could you maybe sit down with your friend and tell her nicely that you trust her to take care of Crash, but that A is too young to interact with or help care for him yet? Maybe ask her if she is going to allow A to carry around his newborn baby sister when they bring her home from the hospital. When she says, "No, he is too young," tell her she is exactly right. Crash is your baby. If she wouldn't trust A with his newborn baby sister, she shouldn't trust him around Crash. I would still look into taking him with you, but this issue of abusing animals needs to be addressed.

It's just a frustrating situation b/c the parents see their fragile little premee in NICU who slept on Daddy's chest for the first 6 mo. of his life every time they look at their now 3.5 year old son w/ a smart mouth, violent temper, whiny streak, and a little sister on the way.

They won't still see him this way once baby sister arrives and they see him give her a good kick or poke her in the eye. I hope for the sake of your animals and the new baby that his parents take notice of their lack in discipline and change their attitude. Have they actually seen A choke the kittens or sit on the dog? They might not realize the severity of the situation until they see it firsthand. I would suggest taking a video with your cell phone or a camera and showing it to them.

All in all, take your chin with you and start looking for your own place! Good luck and safe travels!

 

[eroomlorac]

My theory always was if you can't control your preschooler, what are you going to do when they are teenagers? My kids never tormented our animals as they were taught animals had feelings, too. My 3.5 year old granddaughter is ever so gentle and loving to the animals, too. She has been taught to be kind and gentle to all living things. A child who is a monster is headed for big trouble. And who wants their child to be despised by everyone around them? This child will be a handful in school and not have any friends. And yes, I agree with the previous posters who expressed concern for the new baby.

I would take my chin with me. Sitting and talking with the mother isn't going to get you anywhere as this mother doesn't think her child is a problem in the first place.

 

[rcr]

I have 4 kids ages 3-13. The rule in my house is no-one plays with chinchillas or in the chinchilla room without my permission. Period. I've run a full gamut of personalities with my kids from my sweet little girly-girly, passive 5 yr old, animal loving 9 yr old to my energetic (ADHD & ODD) teenage step-son. I wouldn't trust any of them unsupervised with the chins at the age of 3 or 13. Young children don't have the cognition to understand how easy it is to hurt a small animal. Even the sweetest kids can unintentionally inflict harm. When I was in second grade I had a hamster that I dearly loved. He was stepped on while I was at school one day by my 3 yr old cousin. She didn't have a mean bone in her body, she was only "playing" with him. Needless to say poor hammie didn't make it.

If A's parents don't see the potential risk involved in letting him run amok and you don't have the ability to put a lock on the door then it's probably best to either find temporary housing or take him with you.

 

[6Dusters]

That child is a spoiled rotten "LITTLE JOHNNY"! That might be fine in his house but I can assure you that my home would not stand for such behavior. I'm all for time outs and a good pop on the bottom. At that age children expect boundries. It can be holding them tight during temper tantrums, placing small children in a chair for a small time out, explaining why they are sitting there, and of course the one good pop on the bottom. I feel your pain that you can't do that. But it sure as heck works. And is used only as a last resort. One good pop gets their attention ASAP. Parents teach children respect and those children who don't end up with those tools end up monsters. This couple is DOOMED!!!

Now having said that................I have four cats in my house and alot of chins. My daughter is 10. At no point have any of them given me trouble with my animals. As I beat the cats ( just kidding ) and have taught my daughter about "living things" needs. The cats just hear me yell, "OUT" and they run from the chin area.

Any person with a heart would tell you to bring the chin with you. And If I were faced with this last minute situation , I would ask my host and hostess for help. Telling them the situation and asking if it would be possible to bring my chin and keep it in a carrier for the duration of the stay as not to cause any damage. And bring some sort of cardboard play pen and a sheet to keep everything tidy at their home for playtime in your sleeping area.

Good luck. If I were close by I would chin sit for you.

 

[Bethany2386]

This situation just stinks! I don't understand why A's parents don't discipline. But they will learn just like everyone else has said. I used to have a friend who's child was exactly like that. They would come to my house and he would try to punch our fish tank... Ridiculous! I was allowed to punish him. He respected me and my husband's authority more than his own parents'. He was also mean to people. When he would bite me or hit me, I would do the same back. Now don't get me wrong, I DID NOT do it hard. I was just showing him that it hurts. He didn't like it and he stopped with me. But then again, my ex-friend didn't care what he did. That would be why she isn't a friend anymore. I just sat and watched a 2 year old who wasn't cared for. And I couldn't do it anymore...

 

[3CsMommy]

I wouldn't go so far as to say they don't discipline at all, only that it's not effective on this kid. 5-6 scoldings for the same thing before a time out, 5-6 time outs instead of a spank for being mean to the animals, etc. The consequences don't seem to be enough for him right now, but may have worked fine when he was 2. And yes, he pulls the "I forgot" thing too, and I'm not sure how far I actually believe it.

As for spankings, I'm allowed to administer them and use "my judgment". Problem being, my judgment is apparently much more strict than theirs, so it gets overridden when they're home. Hard for him to learn that I must be listened to at all times if another authority changes the rules. Luckily it's his father's day off of work; I won't have to do as much for his immediate care for a while.

Just waiting now for word back from my hostess to see if I can bring Crash along. I think I've got a spare shower curtain I can hang, and apparently there is a way for the more aggressive (former stray) dog to be kept away from the cage/carrier. Since he's in the small Quality Cage, I'm thinking of taking it down and packing it instead of keeping him in a carrier. The cage is much more secure against a chow mix with lunch on her mind.

 

[jessica]

That little boy is a brat. I have a three year old little boy and a chinnie. He loves Marble and is super gentle with him. He's also not really allowed to hold him but when I am holding Marble i let him pet him. He was also taught to talk quietly around the cage and not to stick anything in there. We have friends with cats and dogs and Gabriel doesn't bother my friends animals either. If I were you I'd bring the chinnie with you or board him somewhere. That kid can't be trusted and he needs to be faced with a really feisty cat to see why it's so important to respect a cats space. Jeez if he did that to my sister's old cat his face would have been ripped off! The big mouth that he's got would not ever be tolorated here either. My three year old knows what happens when he tells somebody to shut up or hits. He gets a warm behind and sent to bed.