Our situation

[tunes]

If she got into the droppings, that's completely normal. All chins eat their poop, and probably some of their cage mates as well. It's the normal way their intestines work (hind gut fermenters) and should have nothing to do with her having an infection, unless the rest of them are infected as well.

Have stool samples been run?

 

[JenPerry]

As far as I know, they aren't infected and both Violet (mom) and Emerson (sister) are fine and acting their usual (they dislike me, for some reason, but love my husband).

Her droppings haven't been runny; they're still that kind of crumbly dry flaky stuff, and we've repeatedly told the veterinary staff this (and they've seen the samples) but actually do not seem too concerned about it. Even though they are kind of crumbly, there are A LOT of them and she does urinate often (my husband keeps having to change shirts!)

 

[feistychins]

I just want to jump in here to make sure you really watch her poops and that she does not prolapse. It could very easily happen to a chin this young. Fluids are vital.

Make sure she has Alfalfa hay available.

 

[JenPerry]

So we've won the first battle. After going over things with the vets, Poe is now dining on watery Critical Care with a touch of olive oil, SuperFood from Odwalla, and Gerber banana baby food. Her appetite is getting much better, and after hitting a low of 134, she is now approaching 140.

The next step would be curing her poop issues. She's not plugged up at all and leaves quite a trail (and frequently has accidents on my husband, who spent the rest of his Saturday washing his shirts). But they are still on the small, dry, and crumbly side. Tomorrow our vets are supposed to tell us the final diagnosis (the rest of her labs should be posted) and the second vet will call to see how she's doing. Maybe they can help me re-regulate her.

Right now she's got the entire maternity cage to herself with a small house, her stuffed sock to cuddle with, some dry food and her water bottle. The vet suggested leaving her some Critical Care in a bowl for her, but then we discovered she kept sitting in it, so maybe once she's more mobile we'll try that. Until then, we will just sacrifice our sleep and feed her every three hours.

 

[feistychins]

:confused3: I don't know about anyone else, but that is the first time I have ever heard of that mixture being perscribed for a chin.

 

[eroomlorac]

I have noticed that my kits like fresh whole goats milk much better than canned or powdered and I don't have to sweeten it with anything. It can be kind of hard to find though, in my area the only places that carry it are Fred Meyer(Kroger) and Whole Foods.

I can find liquid goats milk in the fresh milk section of my Walmart. I have an easier time finding fresh goats milk than powdered goats milk.

Thank you for your response, iayla. That is a bit of a comfort to me because the vet had suggested the same thing, hence he's on the antibiotic. He did take an ear swab and sent it to their lab, because, although her right ear swab was clean, her left swab had a little something visible on it. We should find out soon what exactly that "something" is.

Inner ear infections can't always be seen externally unless the eardrum ruptured and is draining.

 

[tunes]

I don't know about anyone else, but that is the first time I have ever heard of that mixture being perscribed for a chin.

It wouldn't be going into one of my kits, that's for sure. First the vet doesn't know that chins eat their own poop, now comes up with slop to feed a baby? Bananas are a binding agent. You're already dealing with a chin with hard, crumbly poops. How are bananas going to help with that? Then he's trying to counteract it by giving olive oil to soften the stools and make them more formed?

JenPerry - You really need to seek advice from more informed vets. It's like they are going through their kitchen cupboards and saying - Yes, this looks good, let's throw that in there. She needs hydrating. Her stools look like they do because she's not getting enough hydration. Use the liquid hand feeding formula in addition to critical care. At least that way she will be hydrated, if you don't want to have the vet show you the subcu route. All this junk being thrown at her is simply not healthy.

Has this vet even seen chins before? The fact that he thinks her eating poop is a bad thing just floored me. If she's got a Staph infection, what kind of antibiotics did he offer you that are sensitive to this infection?

Nothing he can give you is going to "cure" her if she has a neurologic issue. So experimenting with her food is doing her no good. She needs to be eating regular pellets so her teeth don't end up a mess. She needs good quality hay. Supplement her with the critical care and the hand feeding formula, and give her gut a chance to normalize. Get ahold of Dawnna on here and get some Lifeline. It's going to do much more for her than all the miscellaneous junk this vet is telling you to use. Find out exactly what kind of infection she has, and if she actually has one, get her treated for it. Mixed up baby food and olive oil is not going to do thing one for a Staph infection.

 

[JenPerry]

OK, let me see if I can clarify who said what.

The vet tech at the ER hospital (the one that diagnosed her infection) was the one who commented that it could be from all the poop droppings. Although they only had the first results in, it was positive for staph, and today they should be letting us know if there is anything else going on.

As for the diet, that came from the regular vet we've used as well as the woman who runs the local chinchilla rescue. The gal at the rescue has been working with chinchillas since '79, so that's, what, 30 years of experience? And the vet specializes in pocket pets, chinchillas in particular, and has almost 20 years in the vet world.

From what I am understanding about the why's, our main goal was, first, to get her to stop dropping weight, and then to get her back on a good diet. They wanted to up her calories because they felt she was losing so much weight because she had such a raging infection (both vets, plus a third called into her last visit for a second opinion, agreed to that). The vet at the ER put her on Baytril (sp?) at .2 ml, but the regular vet told us to cut that to .1, as Baytril can sometimes affect her appetite, and I think in this case it was true. At her last feeding, she ate 3.5 grams, which is more than she's ever eaten.

As of today we are just doing CC; the SuperFood and the baby food were just to get her in the right direction, and to stop the weight drop (the same reason olive oil was added to CC). We are supposed to use them if she starts to decline again, but that doesn't seem to be a worry anymore. She's almost 100% now, and is scooting around her little cage. She even attempted to climb her house, but doesn't quite have that strength. Only last night did she start going through her pellets, and we put a little calf manna in with them. (In case you were curious, we get our guys Oxbow, as it was the only non-junk one our pet store carried, but they just started to carry Mazuri this last week).

I think, starting today, she is going to go back to 4-hour feedings, as much as my husband and I enjoy getting up every three hours ::grin:: she is finally stable enough that she can munch on her own pellets, at least some of the time, plus her hay (timothy) and she's got a water bottle, but hasn't taken to it very much, so we still try to syringe some water in her, but with her new found strength, she's fighting us and would rather go and play!

 

[aznmexaggie]

Olive oil, banana baby food and Odwalla superfood... what in the world?

Olive oil (or any lipids for that matter) signals the stomach to slow down and release it's contents more slowly as fats are more difficult to digest... that in turn also slows down the action of the gut. You want to keep her gut moving, not cause her to go into stasis. Banana baby food? Other than the binding effects of bananas, I don't think adding more simple sugars into her diet is beneficial either... and the Superfood drink? Why add a variety of more complex things for her to digest when she is already ailing? I definitely wouldn't give that to any of my kits (or adults!). I'm glad she is not eating that any longer.

I find it odd also that the vet thought it would be detrimental for a chinchilla to eat poop... chinchillas are coprophagous and eat poo (mostly caecotropes, the softer, nutrient-rich poo) to extract all possible nutrients out of their poo the second time around and also to continually restablish their gut flora. Heck, I learned about coprophagia in my freshman year in Animal Science at Cornell... I'd hope a "chin specialist" vet who went through undergrad and vet school would at least know that! (ETA: I just read your newest post which clarifies that the vet tech was the one who made the chin poo comment and not the vet. Well... a vet tech should know that too!)

I hope your little gal is on the road to recovery and will continue eating her Critical Care for you and start chowing on her pellets and hay. Peggy mentioned Lifeline as well... that's good stuff and would be beneficial for this chinnie.

 

[AZChins]

I'm glad to hear that she's eating a bit on her own, that's a good sign.

 

[tunes]

I also wouldn't be jumping in to give calf manna either. The protein is very high in CM and right now, this kits stomach has got to be in knots from all the stuff going into it. If you need to add calories, use the canned plain pumpkin. Don't add oil, mystery foods, and baby food. That kind of stuff is deadly for an adult chin, throwing it at a kit who is having issues is just asking for trouble.

Sprinkle some of the CC on her pellets. If you get some Lifeline, sprinkle that on her pellets. But all that other stuff? Odwalla super foods is just loaded with fruit. It even has food that is listed on the toxic woods list like peaches. Please, stop using this on a baby chinchilla.

 

[AZChins]

In the long term the fruit smoothie mix and the other things are going to cause problems. Since the kit is eating a little more, you could tone it down a bit...maybe make the mix a little more basic. Fruit is going to be something that you will want to probably stop using completely. I'd limit it as soon as I could just for the reason that it could cause diarrhea and gas.

If needed, you can get calories from different types of energy rich foods. I like to use life line, a little honey, and water or soy milk.

As the kit eats more and nibbles more of the pellets, decrease the frequency of your hand feeding. At this point you want the kit to eat on his own as much as possible. Have hay available at all times. With the calf manna, I would give it out more like a treat. Hand the kit a piece personally, mixing it in the food isn't a great idea unless you have a chin that isn't eating at all.

 

[menagerie]

I'm not quite sure where to start here.

Poe is now dining on watery Critical Care with a touch of olive oil, SuperFood from Odwalla, and Gerber banana baby food.

I wouldn't feed that to a chin of any age. If a vet recommended that to me, I'd be finding a new vet. If you continue to feed inappropriate food, you're going to add stasis to her already long list of problems. Stasis is something you don't want to deal with, I've been treating a chin that came in with stasis for the last three weeks and it is no picnic.

If her poop is still dry and crumbly, she's not getting enough fluids and will need subcu fluids daily for a few days.

If she were in my care, her hand feeding mix would be Critical Care, LifeLine, a few drops of blackstrap molasses and perhaps a bit of canned pumpkin. Pumpkin is low in sugar and high in fiber and the chins really seem to like it.

If she is eating on her own, I would encourage that rather than hand feeding every meal. She needs to use her teeth otherwise she will have another set of issues to deal with, also.

 

[ticklechin]

Just curious, why would you feed honey to a kit if you would not feed it to a human baby? Baby humans don't have the bacteria in the intestines and robust immune systems that eliminate the botulism spores so when a baby eats honey, the spores find themselves in the oxygen-free intestine and come to life, so unless I am missing something with chinchillas would that not be the case with kits? I would not feed it to a adult chin but that is just me, because of the sugar and in my mind the risk of botulism.

 

[feistychins]

JenPerry,

I know you are trying everything to keep this little girl alive and to get her well and I applaud you. I also know that a vet that specializes in chinchillas and a chin person with many years experience should know what advice to give, but as many of us know, that is not always the case.

I also realize you are trying to get her to gain weight, but if her intestinal tract slows down or gets blocked, you can have a much more serious situation than her just not gaining weight. The 'experts' should have told you this.

I agree with some of what has been said. Olive oil under any circumstances should not be given to a chinchilla. Banana baby food is very binding and should not be given. You are better off with baby food winter squash or the pumpkin, both are high in fiber, low in sugar.


Fluids are really, really important when a chin has crumbly poops. They need the fluids to add moisture to their intestinal tract.

The fact that this chin is so young is another reason to be cautious with what you give her. I know a lot is being thrown at you by the vet, the rescue and us.

I would go by the feeding just suggested by Tunes and Menagerie.

No one is trying to make things more confusing for you and you are doing a great job. I am very happy the kit is more active and doing better.

 

[menagerie]

You are better off with baby food winter squash or the pumpkin, both are high in fiber, low in sugar.

I use canned pumpkin because it has NO additives. It's 100% pure pumpkin. Baby foods are overly processed and usually have sugar, salt and preservatives added.

 

[feistychins]

I always use organic baby food which has no sugar or preservatives.

What brand canned pumpkin do you use?

 

[menagerie]

What brand canned pumpkin do you use?

I am currently using Farmers Market Organic Pumpkin, but I have also used Libby's 100% pumpkin.

 

[Nickv0195]

No i have never experienced this, but i'm hoping that she gets through this, i'm sure she will. Good luck