Our situation

[JenPerry]

Hey, gang... I figure I can post on here and maybe someone's had the same experience or something similar.

We rescued two chinchillas, and were told they were both boys. Well, they weren't, and I came home one night to a new baby chinchilla. We noticed that the baby was pretty dry, so we suspected breedback was very likely, and sure enough, mommy started getting plump. About a week before her due date, Violet (the mom) stopped gaining weight. We took her to the vet, who did a scan and found two heartbeats, but noted that the second was very hard to find at first. Well, delivery day came, and the second baby was dead in the cage when we got home from work. She only weighed 25 g. The other baby girl, a black velvet named Poe, was only 49 g, smaller than the other kits I have had.

So it's been about a month since Poe's birth and two nights ago, I noticed she was kind of listless. She was never a super-active chinchilla (didn't climb all over like the rest) but was always alert, coming by the cage to people watch or when we fed the fam, etc. So I pulled her out and noticed she had very small, dry droppings. I called two vets who said she was likely stressed and to not worry about it. Last night, we heard her big sister making a fuss, so we took Poe out. We set her on our bed, and she kind of just rolled over to her side and started to seize a little. We rushed her to a different vet at 1 AM, who suspected it could be an inner ear thing, and sent us home with antibiotics as well as Critical Care. We also discovered that, at the vet, mom's milk had dried up and she hadn't been nursing, so he sent us home with the critical care.

She has lost a little weight (she weighed in just under 150 when we took her to the vet last night and now, about 18 hours later, she's 145) but I think she's on the mend and hopefully will put on more weight. Earlier today, she was still doing the slump to one side in her carrier, but just a while ago, we put her back on our bed. She still walks like her left side doesn't work perfectly, but she moved fairly quickly. If she hit a bump or a dip, though, she would just kind of roll over.

As of right now, she is in a carrier we have lined with a terry cloth towel and another hand towel to snuggle if needed. She seems a bit more alert, and when we do feed her the Critical Care every 4 hours, she LOVES it. So we are hoping for a positive turnaround for Poe.

My question is, has anyone else had an experience like this? Although sometimes she looks worse, I can't help but be hopeful. I told my husband that it almost looked like she had a stroke, and another friend familiar with chinchillas suggested the same thing. Does anyone else have any suggestions for us? Also like I said, she's in the carrier all by herself because we noticed she slumps more in the cage she shares with her mom and 4-month old sister, and that sometimes they would just walk over her, and I couldn't take that anymore. Should I keep her separate for now?

Thank you all for your time and help.

 

[tunes]

I have not experienced this, but I would make a suggestion on some feed. There's a dry feed that people give to early weaned kits or to kits in with mom.

1 part crushed pellets
1 part powdered goats milk or calf milk replacer
1 part 1/2 baby rice cereal and 1/2 baby oatmeal cereal

Mix it all up in a sealed container, then put it in a dish in the kits carrier, refreshing as needed. It really helps to fatten then up a bit.

I would throw in a stuffed buddy for her to cuddle up to. Any time I have to hand feed or rotate kits, I get out the trusty Eeyore and into the carrier he goes. They like to sit on his head or hide between his front legs, and it gives them someone to cuddle with when they are all alone.

I would also put a heating pad under half of the carrier, with the heat on low, so she can get warm if she needs to or move away from it if she doesn't.

I sure hope she pulls through this for you. It sounds like she's a fighter, so I'm hoping she can. If I had to guess, I'd say she either seized or had a stroke, but it's just a guess since she's so young.

 

[aznmexaggie]

Is Critical Care the only thing she is being fed right now? At 150 g, she should still be getting milk (or a replacement formula since mom is no longer lactating). Also make sure she has plenty of hay and pellets in the cage to nibble on if she so chooses.

If she isn't getting any formula, here are some recipes.

The handfeeding formula I use is:
1 can goats milk (liquid)
1 can filtered water
1 T baby rice cereal

You can also offer a dry mix in the cage for her as well. I use the JAGS recipe:
1 part goat milk replacer (powder)
1 part crushed chinchilla pellets
1/2 part baby rice cereal
1/2 part baby oatmeal cereal

I add acidophilus to both the handfeeding and the dry mix.

I can't diagnose what is wrong with her but hopefully she will make a turnaround and perk back up once she's getting the nutrients she needs.

 

[tunes]

I think the liquid formula would be a judgment call if this girl is having neurological issues. I don't know if choking would be a concern, but I do want to say if she's taking a goodly amount of Critical Care, you need to be sure she is properly hydrated. Critical care can have a tendency to cause poops to dry up a bit. She can't really afford to have anything else wrong right now.

You may need to give subcu fluids for the time being. It really isn't hard, just have your vet show you how. The fluids may also really perk her up.

 

[JenPerry]

Thank you all for the responses!

I completely agree that Poe is too young to not be getting milk from mom, and when we suggested possibly a supplement for that, the vet said to get the Critical Care in her first to fatten her up some and then we can tweak as necessary. The rescue (where we had gotten chins from in the past) suggested, if she was willing, to get a fruity baby food to try to give her as well, to boost up the calories and the sugar. They did give her a glucose test with her labs, and everything was normal. We also try giving her water by syringe too, to make sure she gets enough, and we leave a little spoonful of pellets in her carrier for the time being in case she wants some, but as far as we can tell, she hasn't had any. Fortunately, she is really enjoying the Critical Care, and I was told that some chinchillas flat-out refused to eat it. Luckily, Poe seems to take to it well when we feed her every four hours.

Right now she's playing on the bed again. She was just hanging out in her carrier, so she was a little stiff at first, but now she's plopping along. My husband weighed her when he got home a few hours ago and she was only 145, but we just fed her and weighed her again and she's at 146, so she's on the right direction.

I almost forgot entirely about a stuffed buddy for her. I think that would probably be a good idea. I notice she likes to snuggle in the crook of my arm when I hold her. The only downer is that she occasionally nibbles as well!

I will try to keep you all informed. From what the vet techs and everyone says, she will likely make it through, but she's going to have a bit of recovery to go through.

 

[tunes]

Do not give her a fruity anything. She's just a baby and putting that kind of junk into her could potentially cause you serious problems. Critical care, the dry formula, and possibly the liquid version as well are all the calories she needs. Adding in sugary baby foods is not going to help the situation. If she's eating the CC well, count your blessings and let her have at it. If she should stop eating it, or start to fight it, mix in some canned plain pumpkin. Not the kind with spices, just the plain kind.

Other than that, mix up the dry formula and give that a shot.

 

[iayla]

I had a 2yr old male come to me with an inner ear infection, and he acted exactly how you described Poe - off balance, flopping on his side, disoriented almost like he had a stroke. With 2 weeks of baytril injections, some hand feedings and syringed water to keep him hydrated, he recovered well. It was over 4yrs ago, and he still has a bit of a balance issue, but it doesnt slow him down (when he gets excited, he spins in circles, but otherwise, you'd never know he ever had a problem).

Not saying this is what's wrong with your gal, because kits are so much more vulnerable to diseases & such, but I just wanted to share what I went thru with Chilly, for a bit of encouragement. Sounds like she's a fighter and willing to work hard if you're willing to work hard too.
~Barb~

 

[JenPerry]

Thank you for your response, iayla. That is a bit of a comfort to me because the vet had suggested the same thing, hence he's on the antibiotic. He did take an ear swab and sent it to their lab, because, although her right ear swab was clean, her left swab had a little something visible on it. We should find out soon what exactly that "something" is.

She is a bit of a fighter, and is eating well and starting to come around to the syringe-water. I can't just put it to her face to drink, so I'm having to squirt a small bead on the syringe and putting it near the side of her mouth. Once it touches her, her little tongue comes out and laps it up! I think I managed about 10 drops yesterday; I don't know if that's enough, but then again, she is a tiny baby. Again, the vet said if it got really tough to get her to drink, to mix the Critical Care with more water (It's a 2:1 water:cc ratio now) or to put the tiniest bit of juice in her water to make it more appealing.

This morning I uncovered her carrier and she came right to the edge of it. Then she hobbled a little around on my bed. It looks like her left foreleg is the one giving her the most trouble, but she's getting faster and more daring and wanting to climb again.

Thank you all again for your help. Just hearing from you is helping me to stay sane right now.

 

[rcr]

I have noticed that my kits like fresh whole goats milk much better than canned or powdered and I don't have to sweeten it with anything. It can be kind of hard to find though, in my area the only places that carry it are Fred Meyer(Kroger) and Whole Foods.

 

[AZChins]

She was probably having a low blood sugar seizure. You will need to handfeed her until she can learn to eat on her own and get enough calories from pellets and hay.

I would stay away from the subcutaneous fluids for right now, she's small and you don't want to give her too much and make her go into shock.

If you see the seizure type behavior again, get some honey and mix it with water - half honey and half water. That will help you get her blood sugar up so she will stop shaking.

 

[tunes]

Susan - I've given subcu to young chins before on the advice of a vet, and they've done fine. They were in the 2 to 300 range, not quite this small, but they really made a difference. It was a very small amount, and again, under the direction of a vet.

At some point she needs to get liquids into her and trying to do it with a syringe may not get enough in, especially if she's got neurological damage from seizures or a stroke. She could end up aspirating and choking. If all she's taking in is critical care, that could cause her to bind up which would be just one more problem.

If you can't get enough into her orally, and you don't suggest subcu, what would you do instead to hydrate her?

 

[AZChins]

They usually do just fine with getting enough fluids by handfeeding. They'll get fluids with their critical care and in with their goat's milk. I would definitely make sure to make the critical care very watery, and after each feeding give a couple ccs of plain water.

Subcutaneous fluids can cause problems with chins, such a small amount would be given for a tiny chin - maybe 3 or 4 ml. If the baby is still eating, it definitely is possible to give these fluids orally.

 

[Claire D]

I think the problem in this situation is that the kit has not been feeding so may well be dehydrated. Dehydration can cause listlessness, fitting, and inbalance etc - with such small kits it does not take them long to go downhill. Rehydration is often the key to success.
I agree with Peggy that subcut fluids might be necessary if the kit is not getting enough fluids from the critical care mix. Like Peggy, I have also administered and seen my vet administer subcut fluids to small kits - it is a clinical decision for the vet to make but I have never heard of it causing shock - again, dosage is a clinical decision and no-one should give subcut fluids without veterinary supervision (i.e. the case has been discussed with them or they have assessed the kit themselves).


How is the kit doing now?

 

[JenPerry]

She was probably having a low blood sugar seizure. You will need to handfeed her until she can learn to eat on her own and get enough calories from pellets and hay.

I would stay away from the subcutaneous fluids for right now, she's small and you don't want to give her too much and make her go into shock.

If you see the seizure type behavior again, get some honey and mix it with water - half honey and half water. That will help you get her blood sugar up so she will stop shaking.

Thank you for your concern. When we brought her in that was the first thing the vet did was check her glucose and that was actually in the normal range. In terms of labs and vitals, everything came back normal except that she was dehydrated, and we are still waiting to hear back about her ear swabs.

She's dropped weight again last night, and got down to 140, but we just weighed her now and she put on a gram! So slowly but surely.

I think I mentioned before, originally the vet told me a 1:1 ratio of water to Critical Care, but I read the label and it said 2:1, and she is on that now. At first I was worried because she didn't look like she was urinating, but now we're having to change the towels we have her on all the time, so that's a total plus! He also told me that, if needed, I can add more water to make the slurry runny, since she seems to really like the taste :yuck:

She's still got a little hobble to her, and if she's too close to a slope on the bed (where we're letting her run around) she'll tip to the side, but doesn't do it nearly as often. She came to work with me and ran around on my desk for a while, and (the greatest blessing, I feel) is that she is very alert. She even had enough energy to try to shred my PostIt notes.

My method for giving her water is that I will make a bead with my syringe and touch it to her teeth. This will usually get her to drink it, and I can usually get at least 10 drops on her every two hours or so before she gets too antsy. The vet also suggested using just the slightest drop of juice to make it more appealing, but we haven't needed to so far.

My one concern is that, according to the package, it should be about 2 grams of critical care every 4-6 hours. We tried to do that at once, and she won't have it (the most she's had in one sitting is just shy of a gram) so we're having to feed her 1-1.5 hours to make that "goal".

My husband and I were supposed to go out of town this weekend, but other circumstances prevented it, so at least we have three days to take care of her at home, and, if push came to shove, I can bring her to work next week as necessary. I think tonight we are going to try to see if her mom will cuddle up with her for a while. She's been separated for a day now (because big sis kept trampling her when she was flopped) so hopefully they will be okay again together for a little bit.

Again, thank you all for your advice. It really does help to keep me insane to know that she doesn't have some weird anomaly.

 

[AZChins]

You'll probably have to just work up to that much critical care. Keep trying! I'm so glad to hear that she's eating and drinking a little for you. That is very good!

 

[chinchas4life888]

I'm TOTALLY guessing, someone tell me if this doesn't make sense, but could it be that one of her ears was hurting really badly so she kept leaning on that side...idk just a thought

 

[corneliuschins]

I wanted to add to the discussion that you should be very, very careful when adding a baby back into the cage with mom and sis. I've had all sorts of fights with moms and babies as well as between babies and I could almost count on the stronger, bigger sibling, deciding to pick a fight with the smaller baby. If your baby is already struggling, I would make sure to keep an eye on her when she's in with the fam. I had thought many times that I would hear the fights because I was only in the other room, but I found out with the worst ever fight here happened while I was sitting one room away and I heard absolutely nothing. Of course, you know your animals better than anyone else, and we all know that some moms are better than others at accepting things, I just wanted to add this to the conversation. I wish you luck with your babies, and I'm glad that you were able to find this site to get a little help with such a scary situation. To add a little hope for you I'll also say that babies have a wonderful ability to adapt and overcome difficulties. Good luck - Jessica

 

[JenPerry]

We did try to see if mom (Violet) would take back her baby last night and put them in the cage together with both myself and my husband watching. However, mom wanted NOTHING to do with her baby, and was trying her hardest to get out of the cage. I found this to be very heartbreaking, to say the least, especially with one so small. It makes me wonder exactly how long Violet hasn't been caring for this little one.

Maybe those of you who have bred chinchillas would know, but is it really that common for moms to reject their kits like this? I think I mentioned before that Poe was a twin, and the twin died either during or immediately after birth. We did notice that Violet wasn't quite the same afterwards, and for a while she was extremely protective of Poe.

Poe is still eating plenty of critical care, which we've kept at the 2:1 ratio for now, plus we give her a few drops of water by syringe still. Her weight loss is staying about the same. Yesterday morning she was 140; she was 141 yesterday afternoon, and my husband weighed her in the middle of the night and she was 142, but when I put her on the scale this morning, she was back at 140. So she isn't losing any more weight at this point, and for that I'm grateful. But now it's time to start adding the pounds.

My last concern is her poop. he last few days we noticed she was starting to get constipated, and I've noticed that more water has helped with this, but she's still got dry little droppings. I am going to call the vet in a little white to see if they have any suggestions to help her out, but if you have any ideas, let me know.

She is doing a lot better this morning. She's hard to get to eat during the daytime, but last night she had about 5 grams of food in her, plus water. Still alert (at least at night when she's roaming around) with little to no tilts. So slowly but surely.

 

[addictedtochins]

My last concern is her poop. he last few days we noticed she was starting to get constipated, and I've noticed that more water has helped with this, but she's still got dry little droppings. I am going to call the vet in a little white to see if they have any suggestions to help her out, but if you have any ideas, let me know.

Here is the first post I found reguarding sp? kit massage



When feeding her you should also massage her belly in circular motions then motions going length wise down her belly. Gently but firmly.
__________________

Kristy MORICI

 

[JenPerry]

I thought I would give you one more update before heading to bed.

This afternoon/evening my husband fed Poe, and she has lost weight still (She's 138 now, so slight loss) and he noticed she wasn't using or moving her back legs, so we took her to our regular vet (the original vet was an ER vet we had heard about). She was looked at by the chinchilla specialist there, and said everything we were doing was fine, but that because she's likely got a good infection, she would still be losing weight for a while. She's not as dehydrated as she once was, and whereas before her tail was pretty flat, now it will hold the curl and spin like a little rudder when she's trying to move. The vet explained that she did see something in her ear, indicative of an infection, and that her legs COULD move, but because she appears dizzy still, she's probably finding herself to be more balanced if she doesn't use her hind legs as much. In addition to the Critical Care, she had my husband go to the grocery store to get SuperFood (reminds me of wheat grass drinks, made my Odwalla) to help boost the calories. My only concern is that it's usually pretty cold, so I don't give her as much of that as we do the Critical Care, but it should help with more fluids and calories.

When we got home we called the ER vet to see if they got the results, and they were able to get some of them. She does have a staph infection, but they have a few more tests to do. The vets both think that, because mommy stopped feeding her, she started going for the bowls herself and could have gotten into the droppings (Violet and Emerson, her sister, are notorious for sitting in the chinchilla food dishes, and we're constantly changing them). Kind of sad, that my little one has to suffer, but at least she is expected to make a recovery soon.

Again, thank you all for letting me vent and throw out my issues here. Hopefully now she'll be working on getting much better.