Organic Dry Cranberries for Chins?

[hkkjstwcl]

Hi, I am new to chins. The breeder that I buy supplies from said that chins are very delicate, and I should only give treats such as raisins to chins once a week or so. It's very hard not to give my chins raisins more often because they are just so cute! :tantrum:

Anyway, my question is wether I can feed them organic dry cranberries. I bought them because it might be nice to have a variation. But, my BF said that I should make sure if I could feed it to them with you guys, experts.

Please give me your thoughts.

Thanks!!!!
:bow:

 

[Stackie]

No raisins, and no cranberries. Chinchillas should not eat fruit or vegetables of ANY kind. They are too sugary and can cause tremendous upset which can lead to bloat and other GI issues.

Safe treats that should still be given in moderation are unfrosted shredded wheat, plain cherrios, old fashioned oats, rose hips. Apple sticks can be given freely and is all of my chins' favorite.

 

[hkkjstwcl]

OK

Wow, the raisin thing is new to me. I will keep it in my mind.Thank you!!!:thankyou::thanks10::thanks4::apple:

 

[LemonSqueezi]

No sugar which includes ALL fruit dried or not. Giving it to them sparingly or occasionally is actually more dangerous on their gi system then giving it to them daily. Wish people would grasp that concept. Giving daily, if they don't have any obvious problems from it, will cause many problems down the road if not instantly.
We tell our adopters to think of chins as you would a lactose intolerant baby only make it a sugar intolerant chin. If you wouldn't chance giving dairy to a lactose intolerant newborn then don't change giving sugar to a chin.
A tiny bit may not always kill them but its sure as heck can, is risky, and can cause more issues later on. :broken:
There are many safe treats that they will go just as bonkers over.

 

[ABBY W.]

At the risk of this becoming a "to raisin, not to raisin" debate, I disagree. Dried fruits can be given to chinchillas in moderation without causing problems. I get the dried organic fruits, like cranberries, papaya, and pineapple and give a small bit about once a week. I also give rose hips, shredded wheat, cheerios, and dry tri-color whole wheat pasta. I don't give treats daily though, just once or twice a week.

Many reputable breeders sell dried fruits in their website stores as treats for chins. They wouldn't do that if there was any definitive proof that it was so dangerous, right? I think the dried fruit debate is a matter of opinion, and personal experience, rather than scientific fact.

I do stress that all treats should be given in moderation, ideally a couple of time per week, and NEVER more than once per day.

 

[AZChins]

I use papaya on occasion. It has enzymes in it that will help move things along a little better. Sometimes I will give it to a new mama or when I notice that someone has strangely shaped droppings. It's only one piece every great once and a while, it isn't sugared or anything either. (Pineapple is another treat I used to use for this purpose, but the papaya is more effective.)

All treats should definitely be given in strict moderation. My preference is that people rotate the treats. One day a shredded wheat, one day a rosehip, one day a small sliver of prepared chin cookie, and the next day maybe no treat or a small timothy hay pellet.

My chins never get treats though. This is one thing that takes way too much time with all the chins here, so I just don't do it. It's probably the only thing that I totally slack off on! They just don't need treats, treats are for us because it's cute to watch them eat them.

 

[mishellyshel]

lemon--being lactose intolerant i can totally relate!!

hkk--try the dried rosehips or even the mini rose buds instead of the raisins. it is just as cute to watch them eat those items. i also like to give my boys a variety of wood to chew.

my one chin has malo and had to have one of his molars pulled because it was so decayed and while the malo is probably genetic because he was a pet store pet i cant help and blame myself because of my lack of knowledge and because of all the bad treats i would give him, such as raisins & peanuts and other various dried fruits daily!

I purchased the stuff at a petstore and they were "advertised" for chins but little did I know I was slowing killing my sweet richie with all the sugar! after reasearching more and finding this forum, i have come to understand that those things are not good for chins.
definitely look into other alternatives. i love watching them eat a cheerio or a rosehip or seeing how excited they get when I put a new kind of hay.
I have also bought cookies from a few members, one is hay based and essentia sells them...........my chin loves those, i just break it into pieces and give him a little piece daily. i also puchased smaller oat based ones and they loves those too!

 

[AZChins]

Michelle...don't feel bad! That just made me feel bad for you. They sell that stuff at the petstore and people don't know any better. Often I will go see a chin owner and pick up the treats and throw them out when I am at their house! The people just don't know, they assume that everything is perfectly safe for the chins because it is being sold specifically for chinchillas.

Peanuts are something that you definitely want to stay away from completely. Nuts in general are very bad if given all the time. I tell people to stay away from them now because one small piece of almond could turn into a chin getting three a day. The concept of ONE TREAT A DAY is lost on a lot of people. One treat could mean five pieces of something as long as it is being fed in one sitting...

 

[EnslavedByNinjas]

I second the rotation - rose hips, Crysta's Critter Cookies (Essentia's ), apple wood sticks, old fashioned oats are mainly what I give. If I desperately feel the need to give more than one treat in a day, such as to cheer up a chin before playtime, then afterwords as the thank-you for going back in the cage, I use the old fashioned oats. I can just give 2-3 flakes of the oats before, and also after. It's a tiny amount of treat, and they feel special twice.

 

[alli713]

At the risk of this becoming a "to raisin, not to raisin" debate, I disagree. Dried fruits can be given to chinchillas in moderation without causing problems. I get the dried organic fruits, like cranberries, papaya, and pineapple and give a small bit about once a week. I also give rose hips, shredded wheat, cheerios, and dry tri-color whole wheat pasta. I don't give treats daily though, just once or twice a week.

Many reputable breeders sell dried fruits in their website stores as treats for chins. They wouldn't do that if there was any definitive proof that it was so dangerous, right? I think the dried fruit debate is a matter of opinion, and personal experience, rather than scientific fact.

I do stress that all treats should be given in moderation, ideally a couple of time per week, and NEVER more than once per day.

Why do you think sugary treats are okay? If we look at the basic biology of how a chin's digestive system works, it's really not in their best interest to give them sugary treats.

I know from reading your posts in the past about feeding raisins, there's no reason for me to debate with you what you give your chins. But I don't think it's a good idea to suggest to new people to start feeding raisins. Sure, will one raisin kill a chin? Most likely not. But many people take an idea and run with it. Someone says it's okay to give raisins, in moderation. But a newbie may take the first part and not the second and start giving plentiful raisins to their chins.

And I wish I had the post from CnQ, but at one point in time a member's chin did get very very sick from a treat with sugar in it. The member didn't know that the treat had been made with an ingredient containing sugar, and then chin almost died.

If there are plenty of other SAFE treats out there, why would it even be necessary to give sugary treats? I can guarantee you my chins don't miss not getting fruits or raisins. It's all about you wanting to make them feel "happy". Your chin does not need a raisin or fruit to live a happy life.

 

[ABBY W.]

I know from reading your posts in the past about feeding raisins, there's no reason for me to debate with you what you give your chins. But I don't think it's a good idea to suggest to new people to start feeding raisins. Sure, will one raisin kill a chin? Most likely not. But many people take an idea and run with it. Someone says it's okay to give raisins, in moderation. But a newbie may take the first part and not the second and start giving plentiful raisins to their chins.

ON the contrary, I am very open to new evidence, but none has been offered. Again, many aspects of chinchilla care are a matter of opinion and will remain so until more scientific study is done to give us more definite answers.

As far as people "running with an idea," I am always very clear in stressing moderation, even going so far as to specifiy a number of times per week (no more than 1-2). If an owner chooses to ignore that part of the statement, despite my stressing it, I can't do anything about that. If they are here to educate themselves they should read the whole statement and take it seriously, not just the parts that are appealing. And, if we are going to educate people then I believe in matters that are debatable all viewpoints should be welcomed, so the OP can make a fully informed decision on what they want to do.

The fact is that there are many reputable breeders who do give dried fruits to their chinchillas, with no demonstrable ill effects, and sometimes use dried fruit to treat digestive problems, as AZ chins pointed out. So, it is not accurate to say that giving dried fruit at all is fatal. Dried fruit can be given safely, when it is done in moderation.

 

[AZChins]

The only problem with saying that dried fruit is okay even in moderation is the fact that people do not understand moderation at all. They hear a raisin is okay every now and then, but they perceive that to mean that it's okay to give it every day or even several times a day.

It gets to the point where people think it's alright to start substituting raisins for their food when they run out of chin pellets. That is not alright!

It is easier to tell people to not give dried fruit, fruit or anything else because it isn't good for them!

One time years ago I went to pick up three rescue chins. The lady had run out of chinchilla pellets so she thought it was alright to feed the chins Life cereal as a substitute for food. It was because someone had told her that some dry breakfast cereals were alright as a treat!

Oh, then there was another person, who was told that a raisin was a decent treat to give a chinchilla. So, she took it one step further....she started giving the chins a dish of treats every single day. That snowballed into giving the chins a dish of raisins and then into giving the chins whole prunes. It took me three months to straighten out the digestive systems of the chins when they came to live with me.

It isn't that dried fruit should be ruled out completely, it's just that it is very hard to get the point across that ONE TREAT a day is the maximum. One treat or no treats is the rule...they don't get that.

So, I would be much more inclined to say that people should just not give dried fruit at all. And, tell them to stay away from anything with dried fruit. It isn't that these people are stupid or anything like that, it's just that they don't understand the impact that too much sugar has on chins.

I definitely agree, stick with the bland treats like shredded wheat, a cheerio, a rosehip, plain hay pellets or no treats at all. It's just easier that way! Chins love raisins and they love other fruits - they are programmed to have a massive sweet tooth like humans. It's hard to not give a chin something that he's begging to eat, and I think that's why a lot of chins get over treated.

 

[alli713]

So, it is not accurate to say that giving dried fruit at all is fatal. Dried fruit can be given safely, when it is done in moderation.

No where did I ever say dried fruit is fatal. If you re-read my post, I said, will a chin die from eating a raisin? Most likely not.

As far as breeders selling fruit on their sites, well that's up to them. Some will sell it because they sell. Some breeders don't feed hay. Does that mean we should be telling pet owners not to feed hay?

Personally I don't think there's going to be any real experiments done any time soon on the effects of sugar on a chin's digestive system. Chins just aren't a mainstream pet as of yet.

So for me, I just look at how the chin's digestive system works, and how it's made to run. And seeing as they weren't made for digesting high sugar content foods, I'm not going to offer sugary treats.

And like I said. What is the point of giving sugary treats anyways when there is a debate about their safety? Why not just err on the side of caution? When there's plenty of other things to give as treats, why not just offer those? And also like I said, giving treats is for the humans benefit, not the animals.

 

[AZChins]

So for me, I just look at how the chin's digestive system works, and how it's made to run. And seeing as they weren't made for digesting high sugar content foods, I'm not going to offer sugary treats.

And like I said. What is the point of giving sugary treats anyways when there is a debate about their safety? Why not just err on the side of caution? When there's plenty of other things to give as treats, why not just offer those? And also like I said, giving treats is for the humans benefit, not the animals.

I think that this is a good thing. It's always better to go with what you know is safe. Chins really aren't designed to handle fruit on a regular basis.

 

[ABBY W.]

OK, I want to put this argument to rest, at least for my part. I base my decision on the research done by the California Chinchilla Association, which is, to my knowledge, the only facility specifically conducting research on chinchillas and their digestive needs in the U.S. at this time, and includes Lani Ritchey, one of the authors of the oft recommended reference "The Joy of Chinchillas".

I feed my chins the pellet mix diet that she recommends on her website. If you go to the site cachins.org and look under Q&A-then to "What do I feed my chinchilla?" You will see where she clearly states that she gives her own chinchillas fresh fruit, dried fruit, and fresh vegetables, in moderation.

I understand and share concerns that some people will disregard the instructions that are given to them, but many also will not. We shouldn't rule out an entire practice because some people might abuse it.

 

[Stackie]

Abby, I could point out so many wrong things in "The Joy of Chinchillas" that the whole book would be torn apart by the time I was done. I would not go anywhere near saying that the author of that book is one of the master minds of chinchilla care....

I have read a few stories of people giving their chin a raisin, and a few hours later, the chin has bloat. That is enough validation for me. It's just not worth the risk of giving the fruit. What benefit does it have to the chinchilla's health? Absolutely none. People feed their chins nothing but pellets, water, and hay and have big, beautiful, gorgeous, and healthy chinchillas.

 

[ticklechin]

I agree with the above poster, if you are using The Joy of chinchillas as your reference book to care for chinchillas you are using information that is decades old, that book has not been updated much since the 80s and CAchins is not the be all and end all of chinchilla care, Lani feeds manna daily to all her chins if that tells the other people the level of knowlege.

 

[ABBY W.]

Well, as I said before, that is the end of the argument for my part. I have presented the research on which I base my decisions. Other than a few anecdotes, I have not heard any hard evidence to the contrary. I believe more research needs to be done, but I agree it is probably not going to happen anytime soon. I have seen good results with the diet (dried fruit, calf manna and all) my chins are on now, big healthy chins, and big healthy kits, so until there I have concrete reasons to believe otherwise I will be comfortable continuing.

 

[Stackie]

Well, as I said before, that is the end of the argument for my part. I have presented the research on which I base my decisions. Other than a few anecdotes, I have not heard any hard evidence to the contrary. I believe more research needs to be done, but I agree it is probably not going to happen anytime soon. I have seen good results with the diet (dried fruit, calf manna and all) my chins are on now, big healthy chins, and big healthy kits, so until there I have concrete reasons to believe otherwise I will be comfortable continuing.

Yeah, your chins are big because you feed them calf manna...it's used mainly for weight gain, and it is so high in protein I would suspect it would cause liver damage if used over a long period of time...

But anywho...I guess it's up to your discretion what to feed your chins...but I would stick with the majority's decision that no fruit and vegetables are your best bet. A quality diet of healthy pellets, hay, and water has been proven for years and that's what I'll stick with.

 

[ticklechin]

For others wondering why The above poster and I worry about manna, the nutritional analysis

Ingredients:
Soybean meal, corn, hominy feed, feeding oatmeal, dried whey, dehydrated alfalfa meal, linseed meal, brewer’s dried yeast, vegetable oil, fenugreek seed, anise oil, calcium carbonate, monocalcium phosphate, dicalcium phosphate, salt, sulfur, iron oxide, ferrous carbonate, ferrous sulfate, copper oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, sodium selenite, cobalt carbonate, calcium iodate, Vitamin A supplement, Vitamin D3 supplement, Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, thiamine mononitrate, niacin supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid, biotin.

Guaranteed Analysis:

Crude Protein, min 25.0%
Salt, min 0.5%

Lysine, min 1.4%
Salt, max 1.0%

Methionine, min 0.3%
Sodium, min 0.2%

Crude Fat, min 3.0%
Sodium, max 0.4%

Crude Fiber, min 3.0%
Copper, min 15 ppm

Crude Fiber, max 6.0%
Copper, max 35 ppm

Acid Detergent Fiber, max 10.0%
Selenium, min 0.1 ppm

Calcium, min 0.7%
Zinc, min 125 ppm

Calcium, max 1.2%
Vitamin A, min 20,000 IU/lb

Phosphorus, min 0.6%





The CAchins pellet mix

• 8 cups pellets (we use a high grade show-rabbit pellet)
• 7 cups calf manna
• 8 cups rolled oats
• 2 cups treats (sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, soy nuts, rabbit treat mix, etc...)


To me, that is ALOT of protein and fat. Most everyone agrees-do a google search of chinchilla high protein-and you will see the majority say low fat, protein and high fiber, not sure where the other research is besides the CAChins that says high protein and fat is ok.