? on Chin problem I"m having

[jmdebb]

Okay, first of all I would like to say i'm gonna give you some info on a problem I'm having, I'm gonna leave some details out so I don't end up writing a book here, also it's not that i don't have the money due to lack of work, it's that i don't want to spend a ton of money with a ton of tests only to find out i just wasted all that money for nothing and i could of spent it on a new cage, extra toys..etc. So i'm not saying i won't go the distance, because i would spend my last dime on a pet to help them out, so don't take this the wrong way and think i'm saying i'm not going to go the distance. And if you are going to bash me, please don't answer, i'm looking for advice not bashing, i am dealing with a vet with this problem.

Okay so in a nutshell [if i can] Noel has been losing weight, been force feeding her, giving her some extra treats hoping she would start eating again. Keeping very close eye on her, we went to the vet last week, I told the vet everything that is going on, and the vet looked in her mouth and saw a text book mouth and didn't think it was teeth problems, she even felt her jaw and felt nothing, now i know that doesn't mean she doesn't have tooth problems, but so far this vet has always been right on target and other times when someone stopped eating and i thought i was teeth issues, it never was.. So i'm trusting her. Plus No-NO [nickname] is eating treats without a problem and I would think [but could be wrong] that if her teeth were hurting she wouldn't be eating the chinchilla cookies because they are not soft. She has no drooling what-so-ever, no watery eyes, not latharic, acting just like she always does, except for not eating. Also, need to say this, she has been going nuts when I let daisy out for playtime, never went this nuts before, so the vet thought and i agreed it could be due to stress. So i moved daisy out of the chin room [didn't want to stress No NO out anymore so I left her in there] and put daisy in my bedroom [and yes the door is kept shut so the cat or dog can't harrass her]. But after this much time and still not eating, dont' think it's stress anymore. Now, I saw a thread in here about a chin that showed the same exact signs and after doing x-rays and found nothing, they found out through blood work that the chin had a low white cell count due to some sort of infection. Okay, so with that said, I have been talking to the receptionist today, then she'll go back to talk to the vet and call me back, and then i'll have another question..and so on...

So the first time i called i asked if it could be possible that she has some kind of infection that would show up in blood work [process of elimination going by cheaper tests first] because of what i read in the other thread. So when the receptionist [sarah] called me back she said that i can either just go get a medication at this one pharmacy [liquid baytril] and i asked if it is a broad sprectrum medication that would kill any type/all types of infections that would show up in blood work. [i'm not a doc so not sure if i worded that correctly]. And also i told her my concern about how chins react while on baytril and that I don't want to give it to her and have to fight to force feed her, and then adding the possibility that that medication didn't work, and then would still need a blood test to see if it's something that baytril couldn't cure. I also asked if there was some other broad sprectrum medication that doesn't make chinchillas sick and not want to eat that would cure any all types of infections of this type. Because if not, I would rather have the blood test done first and not fart around just trying a med and hoping it will work. And of course if the blood test comes back okay with no signs of anything, then my next step would be the x-rays of her teeth.

So while i'm waiting for Sarah to speak to the vet and call me back, these are my questions: A does anyone know of a broad spectrum medication that would possible kill all types of infections that would show up in blood work, and if so what is it, and also B very important: is it dangerous to just give them a medication not knowing for sure without doing a blood test. I mean I will not use baytril no matter what, unless a blood test is done and that is the only choice, but other than the baytril, is there anything else that could be used and be safe without a blood test. I know alot of you people know tons more about infections/meds..etc. than I do so that is why I'm posting this while waiting for the Sarah to get back to me.

Again, please i'm not looking to get bashed. If No NO wasn't acting 100% normal i would do the x-rays first, but fact is again she is showing no other signs that would indicate teeth issues and this other person in here had the same problem.

So if anyone can answer this with correction information [no offence just don't want guessing on this one because I do not want to harm my little girl] please let me know

Thanks,
Jean

[if you have any questions, please ask and I will give you more info]
and i hope that made sense, you guys know i stink at explaining...sorry.

 

[jmdebb]

Okay Sarah called back, according to the vet, baytril is the strongest med that would cure any type of infection and I asked again, if this is safe to do because of how sensitive chins are and if it's not i will come in for the blood test. Sarah told me that it would be safe without doing the blood test, and I can come in tomorrow, [they are closed now] to pick up the meds. So I can still not get the baytril depending on what you guys say and then just make an appt tomorrow to have blood work done.

Just wanted to update you since my first post to let you know what was said/suggested.

Jean

 

[Claire D]

Ok I'm going to start with some background questions so I can get a better picture of what is going on with your chin.

1. How old is Noel?
2. How long have you had her?
3. What is her normal (basic) diet?
4. How much did she weigh at her heaviest?
5. How much does she weigh now and how long has she been losing weight?
6. What treats are you feeding her?
7. Why are you "force feeding" her if she can eat treats?
8. Does she eat pellets and hay or just the OCC and treats?
9. Apart from treats are you giving her any supplements or vitamins etc?


There could be a significant number of possibilities but I'm going to say that without a proper diagnosis you cannot make an informed treatment decision. You are currently groping in the dark especially since you do not seem to have a robust assessment carried out - Xrays and bloods are indicated here.

I would certainly not put a chin on any antibiotics on a whim and definitely not Baytril.

 

[addictedtochins]

If No NO wasn't acting 100% normal i would do the x-rays first, but fact is again she is showing no other signs that would indicate teeth issues and this other person in here had the same problem.

So if anyone can answer this with correction information [no offence just don't want guessing on this one because I do not want to harm my little girl] please let me know
Thanks,
Jean

You say NoNo is acting 100% normal, yet you also say she is losing weight and not eating her food, just treats. That's not 100% normal.
You say she is showing no other signs...Chins try not to show any signs of illness.
You need to get X-rays and labs done.

 

[chinsNdobermans]

Didn't this chin have tooth issues in the past? If I had a chin who had had prior issues and suddenly began losing weight and not eating, I would get x-rays and labs done ASAP.

 

[CerLynn]

I agree, it's almost never a good idea to put an animal (or human) on a medication if you have no idea what's wrong... and if Noel is already not eating properly, Baytril is definitely not going to make that any easier and may not even be necessary. It is a strong broad-spectrum antibiotic, but cannot target everything. If I recall, our hamster was prescribed Metronidazole in addition to Baytril to cover anaerobic strains when she had an infection that wouldn't clear up. If it were my chin, I would request blood work and x-rays - without them you really won't have a clue what's going on with her limited symptoms, and it's dangerous to treat her without knowing. I would also cut out the treats - to my knowledge it will not help stimulate her appetite, and may rather worsen the issue. Good luck.

 

[jmdebb]

Ok I'm going to start with some background questions so I can get a better picture of what is going on with your chin.

1. How old is Noel?
2. How long have you had her?
3. What is her normal (basic) diet?
4. How much did she weigh at her heaviest?
5. How much does she weigh now and how long has she been losing weight?
6. What treats are you feeding her?
7. Why are you "force feeding" her if she can eat treats?
8. Does she eat pellets and hay or just the OCC and treats?
9. Apart from treats are you giving her any supplements or vitamins etc?

Okay I'm not sure of her heaviest weight, I know bad chin mommy, but I can always tell by picking them up if they are losing weight, so if someone is, i'll keep track until they get better, but have never kept the records once they gained back the weight, lesson learned on that one, i will always keep a book in that room with their wait and never through it out again.

But since I've been weighing her and she's been up and down, her heaviest has been at 605, but I do know she is heavier than that when she is fine, just not exactly sure how much, I mean I know she's not over 700, maybe around 630, or something like that, and in the beginning her weight was going up and down, so that's one reason why I didn't go to the vet right away, every time she started to gain, i'd be like she's getting better, but then would lose some again. And again I thought it was stress due to Daisy. So when it just wouldn't stay up, I'm like we have to go the vet. Anyways, so she has dropped down to 563, one morning I noticed a ton a pellets missing and I know kits start picking at an early age, but for Angel's age [6 weeks] I didn't think she ate them all, thought NoNo did, it was a really noticeable amount out of her dish gone by the next morning. So yesterday I said to myself okay, NoNo is starting to eat on her own, so I'm not gonna feed her cc, and when I picked her up, boom, weight lose, down to 579 in not even one full day. So back to the CC. This morning came and before I fed her I weighed her and she weighed 563.. So I will be/and have been today feeding her alot of cc.

Her main diet is [all of them have the same diet], Mazuri Pellets, have been on the for a long time, Oxbow Timothy hay, and some others now and then for different chewing motions for their teeth to grind down good. [the safe ones, broome, oat..etc] Okay, I was going to switch them off Mazuri and onto Oxbow Chin Delux because even though everyone was fine on Mazuri I wanted a lower protein food [another story]. So I noticed after awhile, and I did it slowly, that Daisy has just a bit of loss pooh, so I said, it's not worth it I'm going back to Maruzi, no more trying to switch. [daisy is getting alittle charcoal every day]. ANyways, when No NO was out for play time last night, I noticed when she went pooh on the floor, it might of looked a tiny bit set. Hard to tell because it wasn't really bad. As for treats, I am not big on treats, unless someone isn't eating and I will give treats to get them to eat something other than CC hoping it will help them go back on the pellets. FOr treats I use safe ones, rosehips, old fashioned oats, cherrios and shreddedwheat [both non-frosted].

NoNo is about 1 1/2 and I have had her since she was a kit. I have been force feeding [actually she's started eating CC off the spoon, which is great because she is one tough cookie to actually force feed], but I"m using CC because I noticed she dropped in weight, and she is not eating her pellets, not sure about the hay, Angel is always munching on hay, so I can't say if NoNo eats any when I'm not in the room.
But no matter what treat I give her, she will just chow it down. But won't touch the pellets, sometimes if I give her some threw the cage she might take a few and eat them, but other than that she is not eating.

She has been losing weight for a few weeks now. I have been keeping a close eye on her, and it wasn't that I just let it go that long, what changed is when I let Daisy out for playtime, Noel goes f---- crazy. So I thought it was stress. I mean she would bite at the cage, knock her food dish over, and she is not one to knock her food dish over or bite and pull at the cage. That's how aggressive she was getting, I could tell she wanted to come out and kill Daisy. So after a few days of when I noticed the weight lose [and when my hoping that she would start eating on her own again, but didn't] we went to the vet, and the vet did her check up [explained above] and again she thought it was stress too. So I would of liked to move NOel out of my room and put her in my room and get her away from everyone. But if I did that I would of had to change her cage [she's in the big quality cage and my bedroom in not that big] but I figured changing cages and moving her would cause even more stress [cuz that's what i thought it was]. So i just moved Daisy into my room and the vet said to call her back and let her know what was going no. Well like I said above she started to gain weight even though she was still eating the CC [and chocolate chinchillas meal replacement] and so I thought great, it was stress she's slowing gaining it back every day alittle a time, but thats good. So then one morning I said, well let me see what happens, she gaining weight back great, so I didn't feed the CC and by the time I checked on her and weighed her, her weight dropped again [yesterday] and well you know the rest, mentioned above.

As for the supplement question, I don't really use those, once in awhile I might give a vit c, tablet but hardly ever. But this is something else, don't now if it's related but the vet does know about it, but after she had Angel, her teeth turned white [they were always the correct color], so I started the tums, her teeth wouldn't go back to orange, so I started to give her some cuddle bone [spelling?]. Then I had a chat with a breeder about it, sorry no names will be mentioned, and she said it was okay to give adult tums since the kids tums isn't working and I also told her I was gonna get some calf manna too. So the adult tums wouldn't work either in turning her teeth back, so then I started with the Calf manna, and her teeth finally started to go back to the normal color. So with the teeth coloring issue, that whole thing lasted about 4-5 weeks before they started to change back.

So I think I got all your questions. [told you it would be a book]

Okay to answer all questions in one post instead of quoting everyone.

Yes addictedtochins, I said other than losing weight, she's acting fine. She is very, very active and no drooling,etc.etc. And the reasoning for not getting the x-rays when I went to the vet last week, was again, because of how she started acting when I was letting Daisy out of her cage, I thought it was stress. And also because of the other thread I mentioned in my first one where someone else's chin was having the same issues, but still eating treats..etc etc but it ended being an infection, so they 2 reasons why I didn't ask for x-rays. I thought if she was eating treats without a problem, then maybe it's not her teeth, but I could be wrong, and was hoping someone would of said that is not true or it is true, and that's also another reaon for the post. I did have contact with the vet today through Sara and was asking what she thought and etc..don't want to repeat it, I'm writing so much as it is...But it's mentioned above. But what kind of labs are you talking about, this is why I posted this to get some answers from you people. I don't know if you mean just blood work or other things by mentioning Lab work, so please tell me what you mean. Thanks. [sorry for being and idiot on that one]

chinsNdobermans:
Very good memory, but no. What happened was when I used a different vet last year, he lied to me [because he got mad and well, lets just say he's old and needs to get out of the business, since that happened I saw alot of nasty posts on how bad this vet has become with bedside manners [and other problems] so to speak] and before I found out the truth I didn't realize he was lying, but he did indeed tell me her teeth were bad and would need to filed down. When I brought her someplace else for another opinion, her teeth were 100% fine, not one problem with her teeth. So she really didn't have problems with her teeth. [I knew someone would remember that, feels good to know people have good memories in here and can bring up other posts that might have something to do with a new one].

CerLynn:
I'm not saying you are wrong in any way, this is why I posted this to get answer and opinions, but I was told by the vet [on my last coversation with the office today] that even with blood work, it doesn't always show everything, and that there could be an infection but not show up in the blood work. So is that true? I don't know, I would really like to know the answer to that one [so if anyone knows for sure, please tell me]. Because if it is, then I'm wondering if the blood work comes back and doesn't show anything, could it still be some type of infection. Or do you or anyone else know, if there some other types of infections that can cause this, other than having teeth issues.

Any more information you guys have is greatly appreciated.
And if you still have more questions, please ask.

[oh and i didn't put those smiley faces in, so don't think i'm like happy about this because i'm not, i was shocked to see them when I logged back in, maybe i clicked on them accidently]

Thanks,
jean

 

[jenjenn2005]

I would highly suggest getting an xray or blood test before starting any type of antibiotic on your chinchilla. Especially if it's not needed it can kill off good bacteria and cause your chinchilla even more problems. I had a chinchilla just like yours, she was only dropping weight and had issues eating, no eye problems, drooling, and still very active and in less than a month she went down hill quickly. It turned out she had very severe maloclussion (sp?) that went up into her eye sockets and brain and she had just been covering it up this entire time how bad she really felt. Although, even if found earlier there was nothing to be done. So, your best bet really is to find out what's going on and even thought it's a lot of money, if everything comes back fine at least you'll have peace of mind knowing you did everything. And not all chins are alike, so just because one chinchilla had all these tests done and found nothing, yours may be different.

 

[chinsNdobermans]

I agree... it isn't smart to put a chinchilla already not eating on something that often kills of the appetite of chinchillas who were eating just fine, such as an antibiotic. As much as you don't want to have x-rays and tests run, it is the smart first step.

 

[Chinmama]

That was a lot to read, so I may have misread something, but is/has she been nursing a kit during this time?

I can only give you information based on my experience with a "similar" situation without knowing all of your details. My oldest chin, ZZ, had an upper respiratory infection a few years ago and I had no idea. He showed no signs of being sick other than a slight watery eye and then a crazy sudden weight loss. I took him to the vet and she diagnosed him right away after listening to his chest. I couldn't hear it, but with her stethoscope, she could hear him wheezing. I was glad I caught it quick before it progressed to pneumonia.

If I were you, I would take her in to the vet. Have them listen to her breathing and do an x-ray. It can never hurt to have an x-ray done in case she does have problems with her teeth in the future and you can have it for reference (then and now kind of thing).

 

[jmdebb]

That was a lot to read, so I may have misread something, but is/has she been nursing a kit during this time?

I can only give you information based on my experience with a "similar" situation without knowing all of your details. My oldest chin, ZZ, had an upper respiratory infection a few years ago and I had no idea. He showed no signs of being sick other than a slight watery eye and then a crazy sudden weight loss. I took him to the vet and she diagnosed him right away after listening to his chest. I couldn't hear it, but with her stethoscope, she could hear him wheezing. I was glad I caught it quick before it progressed to pneumonia.

If I were you, I would take her in to the vet. Have them listen to her breathing and do an x-ray. It can never hurt to have an x-ray done in case she does have problems with her teeth in the future and you can have it for reference (then and now kind of thing).

just in case anyone else needs these answers i'm gonna write them in the post, and don't mean to be a pain, but in case you don't come back to this thread, i'm gonna pm you too.

Yes she is feeding a kit, Angel is 6 weeks old. and when i brought her in the first time, she did listen with the stet [dont' know how to spell it] and heard nothing, she even listened to her belly, she's good with checking things out. I even brought Angel to show them and she just checked her over to make sure everything was okay, even though i didn't bring her in for that, just show n tell....so she really does care, and doesn';t just give you a fast answer and that's it, know what i mean

oh and yes i know it was a book thats why in my first thread i tried to leave some parts out. sorry it was so long.

jean

 

[CerLynn]

As far as the blood work, yes, I imagine that the vet is correct in that it won't show evidence of infection 100% of the time. However, if it were me, I would rather put in the extra money for some potentially informative tests before administering a potentially dangerous treatment. If the tests don't show anything, then you can proceed from there. Although I've never dealt with this myself, gut instinct here is teeth issues rather than infection, since it can be in the roots, which you'd never see without xrays. Ultimately it is up to you how to go about this, but I would definitely consider the tests first.

 

[jmdebb]

Okay everyone, thanks for everyone's input. It's 12:19 am where I live and I have decided I'm going to call the vet first thing in the morning and tell them I need to get in today [well it will be tomorrow] and get the xrays done. Now if I remember correctly, it's 2 xrays right.

One side view and one head view??? is that correct, i mean I'm sure she'll know the correct views, but i want to hear it from you guys too...

jean

i will keep you guys updated.please pray that's its not her teeth. i'm not ready to lose another animal just yet...i'm soo scared.

 

[Claire D]

Ok so I think I got some answers to my questions in that huge long post. I'll fill them in here so we are clear - please correct them (briefly!) if they are not accurate.

1. How old is Noel? About 1 1/2 and has a 6 week old kit

2. How long have you had her? About 1 1/2 years from a kit.
Did you breed her or did you buy her as a kit?
If you bought her as a kit do you know the background of the parents etc?

3. What is her normal (basic) diet? Mazuri pellets and hay - but you did try changing their diet a little while back (how long ago?) but decided to switch back to Mazuri

4. How much did she weigh at her heaviest? You don't know but you think around 630g.
When did you start weighing her? Before or after the birth of the kit?

5. How much does she weigh now and how long has she been losing weight? Losing weight for a few weeks. Weighs aroung 563g currently.
Does she feel underweight and bony?

6. What treats are you feeding her? "rosehips, old fashioned oats, cherrios and shreddedwheat [both non-frosted]"
How much and how often?

7. Why are you "force feeding" her if she can eat treats? Because she is losing weight (you think).

8. Does she eat pellets and hay or just the OCC and treats? You're not actually sure because she shares a cage with her kit, Angel.

9. Apart from treats are you giving her any supplements or vitamins etc? ? Chocolate chinchillas meal replacement (what is this btw?) and Tums.

So I'm going to be a bit blunt Jean. Please take this post in the spirit in which it is written - to give you help, advice, and support.
I'm not bashing you but you need to hear how this all looks at the moment. From the responses you have given this is what it looks like -

Your chinchilla which you think is 1 1/2 years old had a kit 6 weeks ago with obvious calcium deficiency (she developed white teeth after giving birth to Angel).
She is still nursing her kit.
You're trying to force feed her for perceived but unsubstantiated weight loss when you do not know how much she weighed before.
She is capable of eating treats, is sharing a cage with another chin (her kit) and is not eating pellets that you can tell.
She was investigated before for possible tooth problems and you do not like the previous vet and their assessment of your chin. She had a second opinion which contradicted the first - and you chose to breed her anyway. Did she actually have Xrays taken at any stage of these investigations?


I'm going to try and address some things one by one:

Your chinchilla's body has been depleted by having a kit - there is always weight loss after the birth of a kit. It is perfectly normal and to be expected. Feeding kits can also "take it out of chins" on occasion - it is possible that providing milk for her kit has had further effects on her body.
The fact that her teeth became white indicates a lack of calcium vitamin. It is possible that there was also further vitamin and mineral deficiency which could also contribute to the weight loss.

But no matter what treat I give her, she will just chow it down. But won't touch the pellets, sometimes if I give her some threw the cage she might take a few and eat them, but other than that she is not eating.

This is absolutely key - chinchillas are junk food addicts - why would she want to eat boring pellets when you are providing her with treats and critical care? She is not hungry for her pellets.
Plus you don't actually know if she is eating pellets or not since she is sharing a cage with Angel - I'm not suggesting separating them (yet) but it does make it difficult to monitor eating patterns.

She has been losing weight for a few weeks now. I have been keeping a close eye on her, and it wasn't that I just let it go that long, what changed is when I let Daisy out for playtime, Noel goes f---- crazy. So I thought it was stress. I mean she would bite at the cage, knock her food dish over, and she is not one to knock her food dish over or bite and pull at the cage. That's how aggressive she was getting, I could tell she wanted to come out and kill Daisy.

Yes, this is also perfectly normal for a pregnant chin or a chin that has a kit(s) - they are protecting their territory from invaders.


1. If a female chin loses weight after giving birth to kits then it can take considerable time for them to recuperate and regain all the weight.
This is perfectly normal - it is one of the reasons that good breeders allow their females time to recuperate between births and also assess their chins' ability to recover with each litter.
BTW as an aside, chinchilla weights can fluctuate a few grams during the day and between days - you need to monitor weight fluctuations over a period of at least a couple of weeks before you can be sure of the direction of loss/gain. Unless there is dramatic weight loss (10% or more) then a few grams here and there is pretty meaningless on it's own. It is only when continual loss is noticed that there is a potential problem which needs investigating.


2. Good quality pellets and hay with a small amount of a good quality, balanced supplement are all that is normally required for females to regain weight after littering. I do not know of the specific supplements available in the US but here in the UK we often use a nutritionally balanced cereal based herd mix like Debbie's (Azure Chinchillas) - a pinch once or twice a week is sufficient.

3. By continuing to provide for her full nutritional needs you are never going to get this chin eating on her own again. Currently she is enjoying treats which she can eat perfectly well. The longer you syringe/force feed her the more likely she is to develop (or worsen) tooth problems.
Too much soft food means she is not wearing the occlusal (grinding) surfaces of her teeth sufficiently and she is at risk of abnormal wear patterns, crown and root elongation.


I'm going to suggest the following:

Stop messing your chinchilla about. In the nicest possible way, you're not actually doing her any favours. The more you manhandle her, take her to the vet, force feed her etc, the more stress you are putting her under.
You need to step back and stop feeding this chin treats and OCC. I know you're reasons for giving her treats are to encourage her to eat but she's waiting for the "yummy stuff" all the time. She's too full of it to be bothered eating her pellets. Stop the "yummy stuff" and she should become hungry enough to eat her normal diet.
If she can eat treats and hay with no problems then she can eat pellets.

Give her pellets and hay and monitor her eating by weighing her. Initially she is going to lose weight because of the lack of OCC but if she is "clinically well" then she will slowly start to gain weight.
A healthy, balanced diet should be sufficient for a chinchilla to regain weight after littering.
Weigh her twice a week at the same time of day for at least 2 weeks and see what is happening. If she shows consistent weight loss then she needs a full work up at the vets, including bloods and Xrays to rule out dental problems.


Do not start her on antibiotics of any type unless you have ruled out everything else and have a proper diagnosis. You're groping in the dark and will possibly do more harm than good.


Give her time to recover from giving birth and feeding her kit. It can take months to regain weight which has been lost through illness.


If you get Xrays done today and they show tooth problems then that's a whole different ball game but either way I still think you need to stop feeding your chin treats and get her back on a normal diet.

 

[ticklechin]

Did the chin have a fecal? Giardia does not always show up as loose poo, but can show up as anorexia. Beyond that I agree with the above post 100%.

 

[jmdebb]

Hi all, it's morning now..

To answer ClairD without quoting it?

1) correct
2) correct, bought her, not 100% sure of background [another story ugh! sorry]
3) tried changing food within past month.
4) correct, starting weighing constantly after birth of Angel when I noticed she was losing weight, which was when Angel was about 4 weeks old.
5) correct, and she feels underweight but not boney.
6) I'm not a big treat giver, I sometimes go 2 weeks without treats, then sometimes will treat a few times in one week. [but since noel has been losing weight i have given her more because i was hoping it would get her to start eating pellets because she will eat her treats[
7) she is losing weight [fact] i was able to tell by picking her up she wasn't as heavy. she's being good and eating dawna's meal replace and reg CC right off the spoon. It's one of those small plastic baby spoons and she'll eat like 4 or 5 of them at once. It was enought that she starting to put weight back on and that's why i thought it was stress related and she was getting better.
8) correct [but she has eaten a few pellets if I feed them to hear through the cage bars]
9) she's off the tums because it didn't work [using calf manna] and meal replacement is a blend of nutrients and fiber, plus all the ingredients in Life Line. It's a full 100% complete diet, easy to digest. It includes everything that the body is missing out when not eating enough. [thats whats written on the back, I can't find it on her website anymore to just copy the info sorry]

the other vet totally lied to me, yes we got a second opinion and sorry but it was so long ago, i'm pretty sure xrays were done and blood work too. she started eating the same day we went to the other vet.

I do understand the lack of calcium in her with white teeth, that's why i started to give her the tums.etc...And losing weight after giving birth totally makes sense, I knew she was a bit lighter right after she delivered but wasn't this light, and she was still eating. Could it be possible that maybe treating her calcuim problem made things worse [eating wise, i know they need dark teeth].

Okay I will stop all treats and CC, and I understand about that I'm possibly adding more stress on her by fussing over her and going to the vet. I was really trying to help her, I know you didn't mean any harm and I appreciate you being honest but nice about it. But what really scared me and why I wanted to get some answers is because when I thought she was doing better because she was gaining weight, that one day I didn't feed any meal replacement or CC until that night and her weight went from 605 the previous night, down to 579, and I throught that was too much of a drop and thought something was wrong, and also didnt' want to see her go into statis. Then the following day, [and yes i did give her cc that night after i realize she lost that much] her weight went down to 563. Isn't that too much too quick???? I thought it was, am I wrong, please correct me on that one. If i stop with the CC and Meal Replacement, how long should I wait until [how do I word this] I know it could be her teeth or infection. I guess I mean how long would it take her to start eating pellets and food again, I don't want her to go into stasis. I don't want her to die, and now I'm feeling guilty if I just made the stress worse because I was so worried about her.

ALso right now my time (USA NY) it's 9:12 am. Just let you know. I already made an appt for x-rays, so in your opinion, should I cancel it because of the added stress it can add, or should I still go to rule out [hopefully] teeth issues.

And sorry for being an idiot on this question, should be giving her some type of supplements like the one you mentioned that AZ sells. If so, I'll have to do a search for them in the US and with shipping, have no clue when I would get them.

And just one more thing I would like to say, Noel would never just eat plain CC of the spoon, she is one chin that doesn't like it, that's why I use the MealReplacement but that has LifeLIne in it and they all love the taste of that, so I understand what you are saying about why eat the pellets when I have this, so maybe this was my fault??? But then why did she start losing a ton of weight before using this stuff, but not until Angel was 4 weeks old? Yes after birth she was lighter than normal, but she was staying the same weight, but not this lite in weight, it wasn't until she lost noticeable amout of weight before I went to the vet the first time.

I'm going nuts know, I know i originally said i really didn't think it was her teeth due to alot of reasons, but all of a sudden late last night, I started to really worry if it was her teeth, and I'm so upset [don't laugh] but i'm already in tears because of being scared if this is something serious. ANd yes I know chins can read your emotions and that could also add more stress on her.

So please let me know if you think I should wait out the xrays due to more stress, and how long I should let her go without feeding her CC/MealReplacement or how much weight loss before doing something else.

Thank you so much for all your help...It is sooo appreciated.

Jean

 

[jmdebb]

Did the chin have a fecal? Giardia does not always show up as loose poo, but can show up as anorexia. Beyond that I agree with the above post 100%.

Sorry idiot again on this one.. Do you mean is she pooping? Yes she is. So with that, are you suggesting it might be giardia???

Thanks,
Jean

 

[Claire D]

Firstly I am glad you took my post in the spirit in which it was written. I appreciate you are trying to help your chin but sometimes we can go a bit "overboard" and we're too close to see the wood for the trees - chins can do that to you. :wacko:
Occasionally it takes people from the outside looking in on a situation making comments and suggestions to get us to step back and take stock again.


I'm going to disagree with you - you do not know for a fact that she is lighter than before you actually started weighing her - the only way to know for sure would be through documented weights. I'm sorry but it is nigh-on impossible to tell from just picking up a chin (unless you are very experienced with chins or the chin has become skeletal through massive weight loss - in which case there would be concomitant signs of illness). Obviously she is going to feel lighter than when she was pregnant but there is no way you can remember the "feel" of a chin 3 months down the line after she has given birth. It is far too subjective I'm afraid.

You need at least 2-4 weeks weights before making that judgement.

If she had Xrays and bloods done already then it is worth asking for the results so that you can share them with your current vet. How long ago did she have them done? It can't have been that long ago if she is only 1 1/2?



There are many possibilities for weight loss - tooth problems, infection, parasitic infestation (like giardia), post pregnancy etc etc. You're going to drive yourself insane trying to second guess what is going on (if anything).
If you are really concerned then get her Xrayed and fully examined. See what your vet says but discuss everything in this thread with her - print it out and take it with you if you like and see what she says.
Let us know how you get on with your vets and then we can address the other stuff.

 

[Chinmama]

Very good info Claire. =)

Jean, I believe the Ryerson's have a good supplement mix for breeding/nursing mothers. Check out their site for more info: www.ryersonchinchilla.com.

 

[ticklechin]

Sorry idiot again on this one.. Do you mean is she pooping? Yes she is. So with that, are you suggesting it might be giardia???

Thanks,
Jean

Giardia can be "silent" and other than weight loss exibit no other visible symptoms. If the chin is going in anyway for a blood panel and x-rays, have a fecal float and SNAP test for giardia.