Mycoplasma

[ann1]

Hello everyone. Got a couple quick questions. I'm hoping someone who knows and has experience with these situations can help.
First concern; i recently had a baby (chin) who came down with a runny nose, brownish reddish discharge from nose and sneezing. He was also a bit small for his age. I firts tried changing his bedding from pine to aspen since someone had told me that might be the problem.
No one else was sick in his cage. He was just a baby and caged with mom, dad and another female. I waited a couple days and monitored his weight, eating, drinking, health etc... He didnt seem to get better so we headed for the vet. Vet said he had the flu "most likely a uri" and perscribed baytril. We went and tried the baytril and wasnt having much luck altho he did show some small improvement (discharge turned to clear fluid, i thought maybe sneezing a bit less) anyhow gave it some more time hoping the baytril would continue to keep working. I also kept him in with mom awhile longer cause at 8 wks he only weighed about 145 grams. (way to small) plus i tried to also hand feed some as well. Well he didnt keep improving so back off to the vet. I asked for a different anti maybe tms? He said no he wouldnt suggest (y idk) he said baytril should've done it and maybe he needed more time. There was nothing more he could do and i would have to go to slc for more help if needed. My question is this; someone told me there were some sort of drops that i could use for his nose to help? Does anyone know of this? Also will tms help? Are there other anti's besides tms? I might add he is now about 11 wks old and weighs in at 170 grams. Very small. What else can i do for him??
Second question; my sons rat has mycoplasma (almost positive but not gone to the vet yet to confirm) is this contageous to my chins? If so how bad? They are not housed in the same room but altho i make my son wash his hands good after holding her, could my chins still get it? (maybe if he were to hold a chin afterwards? Altho his hands are clean maybe he is carrying it on his shirt, clothes etc) i dont want to sound like a completely paranoid person cause usually im not but i've had a run of bad luck lately and i'd rather air on the side of caution then be sorry. Thanks

 

[Kula]

I can't answer your first question, but I can probably answer your second question. What kind of mycoplasma? If it is mycoplasma, it can infect vertebrates, so even your son could be infected with it. How it affects him or your chinchillas depends on the immune system. A mycoplasma infection is pretty nasty, so do everything you can to keep it isolated. Typical antibiotics won't kill it because they target cell walls, and mycoplasma doesn't have a cell wall! Even if your son washes his hands with consumer antibacterial soap, this will not be enough. If you're really wanting to kill microorganisms, use (at least 70%) alcohol in a spray bottle.

 

[LemonSqueezi]

I've never had a chin with Myco, don't think I have ever even read of a chin having it, I thought only rats get what is labeled "Mycoplasma", Heck I don't think I ever saw a chin with porphyrin stains either. Thats just a bit odd to me.
Not for nothing but did the vet take x rays to make sure the baby didn't accidentally chew on something and get caught or a splinter. The "porphyrin" might actually be blood? If not make sure the baby gets an x ray.
On another note we had a rat here that my idiot x bought from a pet store years ago that had Myco. He had to be on 2 antibiotics at once and even with the help of them he was medicated off and on for his life and always had a nasty raspy breathing sound and cough.
If this vet says after this he can't help then I would find a much more educated vet. I would think Baytril would help as its much stronger then sulfa and if she is that bad perhaps she needed more of it? ( The only reason I think he would say no to Sulfa) How old is she now? How long was she on it for? Is she gasping at all? Did the vet try to nebulize her at all?
Did he give you more baytril?
Also please make sure she is getting a probiotic in between antibiotics that poor little one.
p.s. Forgot to ad you might want to get her on carefresh or fleece instead of pine or aspen for now.

 

[Claire D]

We had a member of our forum's chin diagnosed with mycoplasma (http://www.chinformative.com/index.php?showtopic=327&hl=) and sadly the outcome was not positive.

 

[LemonSqueezi]

That link is not working for me

I know there are a bunch of diff types of mycoplasma but in a chinchilla wouldn't it just be pneumonia? Its not the same as Pulmonis correct? Sorry trying to learn something here. I have always though that in other species usually its labeled as something other then "Mycoplasma" I thought only rats get the one that has no cell wall..?

 

[menagerie]

Second question; my sons rat has mycoplasma (almost positive but not gone to the vet yet to confirm) is this contageous to my chins? If so how bad? They are not housed in the same room but altho i make my son wash his hands good after holding her, could my chins still get it? (maybe if he were to hold a chin afterwards? Altho his hands are clean maybe he is carrying it on his shirt, clothes etc) i dont want to sound like a completely paranoid person cause usually im not but i've had a run of bad luck lately and i'd rather air on the side of caution then be sorry. Thanks

All rats that are not bred for laboratory use carry Mycoplasma pulmonis, which is species specific to rats. It does not affect other animals, including humans. This is not to say that all rats suffer from myco outbreaks, but it does lie dormant in their lungs throughout their lives. Myco in rats isn't actually fatal, it is the opportunistic secondary infections that take advantage of a myco compromised immune system that will kill a rat. This is why I treat my rats with more than one antibiotic. Because of the myco kicker, rats also need to be treated for respiratory infections for a much longer time than most other animals. We treat for a minimum of 14 days, typically it's more like 21 - 30 days. Myco remains transferable via surface contact for two hours after contact, which should be taken into consideration if you are quarantining rats or visiting someone who has rats.

I've been keeping rats for 8 years and chins for about 4 years. I've NEVER had anything transfer from rat to chin or chin to rat. We even dealt with an outbreak of strep pneumonia and sialodacryoadentitis virus (SDA) in the rats and the chins were perfectly fine and unaffected even with infected rats living in the same room.

As far as your son or any member of your family being at risk of catching anything from the rats, it is highly unlikely. If there was a risk of catching anything, I would be dead hundreds of times over. At any given time, I have over 50 rats in my home (I am a sanctuary home for a rescue, I take the rats that are unadoptable for health, age or temperament reasons).

 

[ann1]

I've never had a chin with Myco, don't think I have ever even read of a chin having it, I thought only rats get what is labeled "Mycoplasma", Heck I don't think I ever saw a chin with porphyrin stains either. Thats just a bit odd to me.
Not for nothing but did the vet take x rays to make sure the baby didn't accidentally chew on something and get caught or a splinter. The "porphyrin" might actually be blood? If not make sure the baby gets an x ray.
On another note we had a rat here that my idiot x bought from a pet store years ago that had Myco. He had to be on 2 antibiotics at once and even with the help of them he was medicated off and on for his life and always had a nasty raspy breathing sound and cough.
If this vet says after this he can't help then I would find a much more educated vet. I would think Baytril would help as its much stronger then sulfa and if she is that bad perhaps she needed more of it? ( The only reason I think he would say no to Sulfa) How old is she now? How long was she on it for? Is she gasping at all? Did the vet try to nebulize her at all?
Did he give you more baytril?
Also please make sure she is getting a probiotic in between antibiotics that poor little one.
p.s. Forgot to ad you might want to get her on carefresh or fleece instead of pine or aspen for now.

Um I think you might want to go back and re-read my thread. Maybe I wasn't clear enough.
I had 2 concerns; 2 completely different subjects......
First was I was asking for someone with experience with uri's in chins (I never said my chin had mycoplasma at all) My concern was that the baby (chin) had been on baytril for awhile and i didnt think he had improved much. I am very aware that chins on anti's need benebac in between doses. I asked if anyone heard of any nose drops (either rx or o.t.c.) that were for chins. I have heard talk of someone mentioning them in the pass and wondered if it existed and if so what were they called and where do i get it? Also i had asked if other then tms there was any other chin safe anti's? IDK why my vet here said no to tms that is why I asked for experienced breeders take on the matter. IF I need to I will take him to another vet to get tms but had some concerns first.
Oh and I believe he just turned 12 weeks. He weighed like 174 last night. I think I will go back to hand feeding him again (altho he is still eating on his own) He is small. Anyone have any suggestions on how to fatten him up some more? I know baytril decreases their appetitie. I was doing a couple c.c feedings a day and he appeared to be nursing off mom still but I had to pull mom cause i didnt want him to get her preggers. He eats on his own but he's just so tiny. I have a 2 week old that weighs 120 grams and he is 12 weeks and only 50ish grams more.

My second question was pertaining to my sons pet rat. I said "I" believe she has mycoplasma. She hasn't been to the vet to confirm so i'm not 100% positive that is what it is. She may very well have (not the chin, the rat) injured herself. She (the rat) has the bloody tears look in one of her eyes. It looks crusty and a bit poofy and the eye itself watery. I figured it to be mycoplasma. The rat is housed in a completely seperate room from the chins. my concern as I mentioned was maybe if I or my son or anyone else for that matter handled the rat but then washed our hands good with anti bacterial soap and then handled the chins, could the chins get it. Basically how contageous is it to chins or any other animals?
OH and what is wrong with aspen for litter? I have heard more bad things about carefresh then aspen. I have all my animals on aspen now. I had used carefresh for many years in the pass and then started reading many horror stories about chins getting blockages from ingesting it. I've never tried fleece liners and therefor cany say much about them either way.
anyhow just wanted to clear things up for those who were confused.....
thanks again

 

[menagerie]

My second question was pertaining to my sons pet rat. I said "I" believe she has mycoplasma. She hasn't been to the vet to confirm so i'm not 100% positive that is what it is. She may very well have (not the chin, the rat) injured herself. She (the rat) has the bloody tears look in one of her eyes. It looks crusty and a bit poofy and the eye itself watery. I figured it to be mycoplasma.

Rat tears and saliva are stained red it is called porphyrin. It can become more pronounced around the eyes and nose during times of sickness or stress. I would get her in to see a vet and possibly put on antibiotics. Why do you assume she injured herself?

The rat is housed in a completely seperate room from the chins. my concern as I mentioned was maybe if I or my son or anyone else for that matter handled the rat but then washed our hands good with anti bacterial soap and then handled the chins, could the chins get it. Basically how contageous is it to chins or any other animals?

As I mentioned above, you are not going to pass anything from your rat to your chins. The one exception is ringworm, which is highly contagious between all species, including humans.

 

[LemonSqueezi]

Excuse me for trying to help Ann! Sorry but no where in your post does it say you want opinions from experienced "breeders" only. Sorry for misreading that I thought you said the chin had myco. It was quite early when I read it.
I didn't say anything was wrong with aspen, I said FOR NOW you might want to try carefresh or fleece since she is sick. I have had chins with allergies to both and when I have had sick chins ( yes I am experienced can you believe it?) the pine and aspen seemed to irritate them more.
Second I asked how long the kit was on antibiotics to help see if I can answer why it hasn't improved. I didn't ask why the vet said no to TMS I was trying to answer you , hence the question how long the kit was on Baytril.
I still do not understand why a kit would have brownish reddish discharge unless there is some kind of blood involved hence why I said you might want to get an X ray to make sure its not something stuck. Perhaps he got jumped on while eating ( since he was housed with 2 adults) and injured inside his mouth or got a splinter etc which can easily cause a uri and reddish discharge since it would affect the sinuses.

 

[ann1]

Rat tears and saliva are stained red it is called porphyrin. It can become more pronounced around the eyes and nose during times of sickness or stress. I would get her in to see a vet and possibly put on antibiotics. Why do you assume she injured herself?


As I mentioned above, you are not going to pass anything from your rat to your chins. The one exception is ringworm, which is highly contagious between all species, including humans.

The person I had quoted had said that maybe the chin (which I clarified was the rat) could have injured herself and how did I know she hadnt. My response was she may have but from what I knew of mycoplasma it sounded more like that. I am planning on taking the rat to the vet but being this happened yesterday, I planned on waiting until tomorrow to take the rat in. Just wanted to make sure the chins were going to be ok and how concerned I should be. The rat only has it around one eye. Not the nose. Since you seem to know a lot about rats, does it sound like that to you? from what I know, mycoplasma is usually a symptom rather then a diagnosis to another ailment. Is that true? thanks

 

[LemonSqueezi]

The person you quoted was not talking about the rat hurting itself but the kit since you mentioned the KIT having brownish reddish discharge. Sorry but if you don't answer questions no one can help you.

 

[ann1]

Excuse me for trying to help Ann! Sorry but no where in your post does it say you want opinions from experienced "breeders" only. Sorry for misreading that I thought you said the chin had myco. It was quite early when I read it.
I didn't say anything was wrong with aspen, I said FOR NOW you might want to try carefresh or fleece since she is sick. I have had chins with allergies to both and when I have had sick chins ( yes I am experienced can you believe it?) the pine and aspen seemed to irritate them more.
Second I asked how long the kit was on antibiotics to help see if I can answer why it hasn't improved. I didn't ask why the vet said no to TMS I was trying to answer you , hence the question how long the kit was on Baytril.
I still do not understand why a kit would have brownish reddish discharge unless there is some kind of blood involved hence why I said you might want to get an X ray to make sure its not something stuck. Perhaps he got jumped on while eating ( since he was housed with 2 adults) and injured inside his mouth or got a splinter etc which can easily cause a uri and reddish discharge since it would affect the sinuses.

Dont get all bent out of shape now. All i was saying was you may want to go back an re-read it. It seemed that everyone mis-understood what i was asking and I wanted to clarify it was 2 seperate questions and make known that the chin did not have mycoplasma but if you had read my thread you would've known that.
oh and yes i believe one of my first lines I was asking for someone with "expereince" in these areas. Also stated I had switched the litter already as i to have some "experience" (believe it or not). It was one of the first things I tried. my only point was that people have also had problems with carefresh.
I wasn't trying to insult you at all and dont know why you took it that way but i'm also not afraid to defend myself.
Also I dont know why the kit had redish brown mucous either, hence the first trip to the vet but i'm assuming it had something to do with the uri. Also I think I would know if the kit got "jumped on" as you call it by the 2 adults (fyi there were 3 adults) one of coarse being his mom. He has been in with the 2 females since birth and dad 2 weeks after. The kit was not injured, he was sick. There was nothing stuck or he would have been pawing at his mouth or not eating at all or had some other symptoms other then what i mentioned.
I dont have a problem answering questions someone may have if they are pertaining to the subject and had i read your question about how long he had been on baytril i would've answered it.
Maybe im wrong about u saying why wont the vet give me tms.I apoligize if i said you said that and you didnt but I was wondering myself why he didnt or wouldnt and had everyone agreed he needed it i would've insisted or taken him to another vet. Also I would hope anyone who is giving anti's would also be giving benebac. The chinny would be dead if not.
My main question was about if anyone had heard of drops for their noses? That was part of the reason I posted to begin with. Also to see if anyone knew of any other chin safe anti's.
As far as the rat goes, my question was answered and i thank menagarie for that. I think rats are awesome and if they lived longer I would have a bunch. I can admit that im not that knowledgable when it comes to them (but of coarse im not breeding rats either) that is why I asked.
I dont know what i said that got you so offended, it was never meant to be that way.

 

[Sasha]

When Loki got sick he had a brownish red discharge from his nose as well. He also had an eye infection and neck wounds. He was put on baytril for 10 days and it got better. I figured the discharge was from the eye and draining through the nose. He was over a year old when this happened and the baytril did clear it up. As for the TMZ, chances are if the baytril is not working, the TMZ won't either. Baytril, as has been said, is a "stronger" antibiotic. I believe it's more broad range in it's effect than sulfa. Does the chin still have discharge? If so I'd recommend a swabbing and culture to figure out what bacteria or whatever is causing this. Also I'd continue on the baytril in the meantime, it may be since the chin is just a baby that it's immune system is much weaker and it's having a hard time fighting off the infection. For calories Ive heard of calf manna but I've never used the stuff and I don't know much about it. I'd just keep feeding him the maximum amount of CC you can give him and lifeline mixed in. Good luck, I hope the little one will be okay.

Eta: I do not think there are nose meds. I think that there is a primary infection like a URI that's causing the discharge and you must treat that. As for other antibiotics I've heard of chlorpalm (hope I spelt that right) and cipro.

 

[Sasha]

Sorry I missed the edit time but I meant to say sulfa was more broad ranged than baytril.

 

[Claire D]

There are members of the forum who have previously recommended using Gentamycin drops for stubborn URIs - AZ Chins mentions it here (http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showpost.php?p=74346&postcount=50).

 

[LemonSqueezi]

I think the only one who got bent out of shape here was you going by your first reply.

I did read your post, I do have experience which has nothing to do with "breeders" as you mentioned you specifically asked for which you didn't, You still didn't answer the question of how long he was on it, and unless you are watching your chin 24-7 you have no clue if it got jumped on. Housing a kit with 2 adults let alone three is not a good idea because of this reason exactly.
I already mentioned like the other person stated that Baytril was stronger and asked how long he was on it. Perhaps you should read the replies to you instead of telling people what to know if they read yours.
I am sorry but when you post with the subject line "Mycoplasma" in the chin section and ask if they can get it, usually there is a thought somewhere in your head they might have it. If your main question was about nose drops then maybe the title should have been nose drops. Second my other replies were to the person who mentioned there was a chin with it and I needed to ask and confirm that they do not get it.
I was simply answering your questions the first time . Hopefully by now you have taken both sick animals to a better vet and figured out the problem.

 

[ann1]

Third sentence "I'm hoping someone who knowa and has "experience" with these situations can help" Go back and re-read it! I did not say anything about them having to be breeders. I just didnt want someone guessing at it like you apparently did.
When I first quoted you was to make sure you and everyone else knew what I was talking about. I wasn't upset at all and said maybe "I" wasn't clear.
The kit was about 8 wks old when he started taking baytril and he took the whole rx. I belive it was 7-10 days. I stated I waited a few more days thinking he would continue to get better since his mucous was clear and he was sneezing less which he did not. I took him back to the vet and asked for a different anti (tms since that was the only other one I knew of) and he said no (in short) that baytril should've worked and to give him more time to heal since he had some improvement. He did say if he didnt I may want to go to a specialist (which is in salt lake city- 180 miles from here) That is why I wanted everyones take on it. If everyone would've said "yes he needs tms or yes this is what he needs........" I would've been in my car and on my way there.
My thread was called mycoplasma cause I was worried that my rat had it and that it may be contageous to my chins. Never was there a thought in my head that my chin "HAD" it. I have over 25 chins and YES it is a BIG concern. It is better to be safe then sorry. I cant help it if you thought that was what I was thinking or that is what you thought.
FYI a xray wouldnt show a splinter or blood so why would you suggest one. I said the chin was sick not injured. You implied he was injured. I think I know the difference between a sick and a injured chin.
I am aware that chins can fight when housed together. There are plenty of people who do it though so you might want to advise them against it. Hopefully yours aren't housed together to since you dont think it's a good idea. If there was a problem with any of my chins being housed together I would seperate them. In this case there wasn't. As a matter of fact all the chins were snuggling with him and keeping him warm.

 

[tunes]

Okay - enough sniping back and forth. Keep it on track.

Ann1 - Please break your posts up into paragraphs. It's very hard to keep track of what was said where when you run them all together like that. Also, next time it would clear up any confusion if you posted a separate thread for chins and one for rats.

 

[mishellyshel]

to "fatten" up a chin I have heard that DYNE works. I currently give my malo boy some every other day. Also using lifeline may help with appetite, illness & to counter act the antibiotics. I absolutely love that stuff! I use it every day on richie who has malo and a few times a week on stitch who is just a little on the small side.
i purchased both items from the same place: http://www.chocolatechinchillas.com

good luck, hope your baby is feeling better.

 

[LemonSqueezi]

IDK why my vet here said no to tms that is why I asked for experienced breeders take on the matter.

Please read it yourself.
You asked if chins could get myco, I answered, I never accused you of stating your chin had myco.
You asked about TMS, I answered, and asked how long the chin was on baytril TRYING TO HELP YOU, which you never answered, its a bit late now.
I SUGGESTED to get an x ray to make sure the chin wasn't injured because of the reddish discharge and being housed with adults and because the antibiotics weren't helping yet. I didn't imply he was. A splinter or something caught or injected into the gums causing infection WOULD indeed show on x ray and would also cause URI like symptoms in a chinchilla. I never accused you of not knowing the difference but its hard to tell the difference if you haven't experienced it before and obviously you haven't since you are so opposed to it. I have no clue why on earth you are being so defensive when I was trying to help you. I would have answered more on the TMS and Baytril if you answered the simple question before. If you aren't open to opinions and suggestions then don't ask.
And yes I am guessing as is anyone here including yourself. We are online not at a vets office with the chin in front of us.


ETA: Sorry Tunes didn't see your or Mish's post until after I was done typing and submitting.

I have used antibiotic eye drops such as the ones mentioned before on kittens and other small animals in the nose when they were really bad.
We also use Oats with a pinch of flax sometimes for the underweight chins who come into the rescue.