Metacam Dosage quick!

[Dustbunnies]

Thanks. The different solution concentrations are making it a bit harder to get a hard truth. I felt the .1cc was not enough, but the 1cc was definitely unneeded. She is only 407 grams or so.

I was pretty much making sure that everyone else, who were all saying .1cc, were using the higher concentrated (1.5mg/mL) solution. If that is so, then Michelle, you were right to say she could have .3cc or so of my .5mg/mL one.

It is confusing to hear just .1cc and not the rest of the info.


Thanks

 

[equus_peduus]

Different species matabolize drugs differently. There's a pain med that's marketed for dogs and for horses... the 50-lb dog dose is the exact same dose as a 1000-lb horse dose. Differences in metabolism. A small to medium sized dog gets 10x or more the dose of thyroid meds as a human would get. A 40-lb dog gets the same dose of Pepcid as your average (150+lb) human. Etc.

The exotic animal formulary lists metacam at 1-2mg/kg, with 0.5mg/kg used in some cases. With dogs you don't want to go above 0.1mg/kg for long-term use. IIRC, I've seen metcam used most frequently at about 0.5mg/kg in rabbits and rodents, which would work out to 0.1-0.2cc of the 1.5mg/mL formulation for your average chinchilla. Some people think that metacam is needed twice a day in rabbits because they metabolize it faster than dogs and cats do.

There is no hard truth. There aren't any studies in rabbits or rodents of this drug (to my knowledge), so people use what seems to work without causing problems. This is the problem with working with exotics. In dogs, side effects of this drug include stomach and intestinal bleeding, kidney and liver problems. I wouldn't expect it to make a critter sleepy.

I don't know why they dispensed 0.5mg/mL instead of 1.5mg/mL - I usually only send home 0.5mg/mL if the volume given will be less than 0.5cc, and this is in dogs - but that's for ease of administration, not because the amount of drug given will change.

Looks to me like your vet isn't wrong. Maybe they felt the chin needs a bit higher dose. Maybe the lower dose has not seemed to work for your vet in the past. There's a dozen different maybes, but when you've got wide ranges of doses available, I think it's reasonable to choose a middle-of-the-road dose (somewhere between 0.5mg/kg and 2mg/kg). Watch for diarrhea and changes in poop color.

And BTW, the tip of a standard 1cc syringe will fit inside the tip of the idiot metacam dispensing syringe. So no cutting up of bottle is needed (that idiot tip also comes out if you grab it with pliers and twist/pull, so again, no cutting up needed ). Pull metacam into the metacam syringe, then pull your dose out of that into your final syringe. It's a pain in the butt, but it's doable, and easier (IMO) than sticking the syringe into the bottle.

 

[Dustbunnies]

That's interesting. So it is likely his dose was still safe but most others here have been prescribed and used 1/3rd that (or more), essentially?

He obviously seems to think rodents needed a lot!

You can understand it is hard to know what to do in this situation.

Fortunately, this is not a surgery or broken limb pain, so her discomfort is not high even with a lower dose.

I wonder why there is such a gap in judgments on this sort of thing? I wish we had more vets to express opinions and data on the forum.

 

[Claire D]

I wonder why there is such a gap in judgments on this sort of thing? I wish we had more vets to express opinions and data on the forum.

More vets will not necessarily mean agreement on doseages and treatment regimens. There is (as you have already seen) vast differences in knowledge and experience with chinchillas (and that goes for owners too). It's the same in human medicine - not everyone agrees on drugs and/or treatments.

The biggest problems with chins and medication is that there are very few drugs which are actually licensed for use in chinchillas and very little research/data to go on. As said above, there are wide variations in what is considered a "safe" dose for a chinchilla - and most of that is based on extrapolation from other small rodents and vets' experiences etc.

The general rule of thumb with any kind of drug is to stick within "safe" limits and also to start with the lowest dose and work upwards if necessary (especially in the case of analgesia) which is why most vets prescribe by the drop - so for chins the most commonly prescribed dose is 1-2 drops once a day (this equates to 0.03-0.05ml per drop of the 1.5mg/ml concentration).

Interstingly, the Exotic Animal Formulary which EP mentions does not have a specific dose for chinchillas. The dose EP gave (1-2mg/Kg) is for other rodents - because no real work has been carried out into the safety of giving Metacam to chinchillas.

 

[Dustbunnies]

I know, certainly, it wouldn't be 100 percent agreement. But really we have only collected a few accounts here....the more the better (to average), right?

I would say a 3 to 10 times variance in dosage suggestions is a lot. The advice on this forum is "collected" so people can make decisions. One cannot listen to just one person or everybody together, but weigh things they have said. The more (educated) opinions, usually the easier it is to do this.

I am sure everyone understands how stressful it is to give medication to your animal under these vast opinions.

Thank you everyone for your input.

This is a fact (as close as fact as we can get) finding mission, not me "freaking out."

We are all here to get help, help each other, and learn as much as we can about our chins.

 

[Claire D]

But really we have only collected a few accounts here....the more the better (to average), right?

................................... The advice on this forum is "collected" so people can make decisions. One cannot listen to just one person or everybody together, but weigh things they have said. The more (educated) opinions, usually the easier it is to do this.

You seem to be dismissing the information you are being given by experienced members, some of whom spend time sharing their chinchilla knowledge with vets and that is why they have stopped posting (as Becky already pointed out).
Try searching the forums - you will find far more information, opinion, and anecdotal evidence to help you make informed decisions if that is what you really want.

I would say a 3 to 10 times variance in dosage suggestions is a lot.

Yup, welcome to the world of chinchilla keeping.
The longer you have them the more variation there seems to be - it's very frustrating at times.

 

[Dustbunnies]

I did not dismiss it. I am just curious about this. Sorry if like a lot of input. Which member shall I follow with undying allegiance? I have not disregarded there advice just because I like to hear even more.

I in fact followed what they said, but we could all benefit from a collection of experiences.

Sorry if I have bugged anyone or that if continuing a topic made them feel like I have entirely ignored their advice. It just isn't so.

That is why when someone posts a question, the thread isn't closed after one person answers.

Also, I have been searching the forums. Sometimes I find enough data, sometimes I don't. Metacam was talked about all over the place....but not the dosage so I asked (everyone, not just one person).