Making noises when he pees? long.

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BoundNoFtWaL

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
117
Location
Las Vegas NV
Hey all. I adopted a chin last Sunday from a guy on craig's list. Sigmund is about 4 years old. He and his cage were in horrible condition when I got him. His cage, plastic shelves, dust house, and wheel were covered in dried urine and poo. His belly was also covered in both and he had mats around his haunches. There was no bedding in his cage just lots of hay thrown about also very dirty. He was being fed some nasty food with big chunks of, I don't know, carrots maybe and pineapple, mixed in with pellets. He was also being feed sunflower seeds and peanuts. The containers I was given with his food had bugs in it. He was alert and running full speed on his wheel at 11am when I got there. The apartment he was in had to be in the high 70's. We're in Vegas and it was probably 112 that day. I was also given a smaller cage which was almost as dirty as the one he was living in, and a large ball for him to run in.
I brought him home with me in the smaller cage with the AC on full blast. He sat huddled in the corner while I sanitized and scrubbed everything else he owned. I threw the food away. I threw the plastic dust house away. Still have the ball but will not use it. I know they are not good for Chins. Oh, it reeks of smoke (the guy was a smoker) even after I scrubbed it. Well, I got his cage cleaned. Threw away the plastic shelves. Sanitized his food bowls and replaced them. I threw away his water bottle because there was something moldy looking growing in it! I gave him one of Stitch's spare glass water bottles. (Stitch is my other Chin)
He's now in the cage with a fleece blanket as bedding. I put a cuddle bone, some apple twigs, pumice stone, and timothy hay cubes in there for him to chew on. Stitch is eating Mazuri, and that's what I replaced Sigmund’s food with. We're doing a cold switch because of the condition of his previous food. He didn't really eat much the first couple of days. I put some hay in there too and mixed half a capsule of PB8 Pro-BIOTIC ACIDOPHILUS 14 Billion Good Bacteria. He's been nibbling.
I tried to clean his belly off with a damp wash cloth Tuesday and he sat in my lap for quite a while. I made sure to dry him well after. I noticed a wet spot in my hand where he was standing but it was only maybe a drop or two of liquid. I thought maybe he had peed on me, but it wasn't very much liquid at all. I didn't think much of it, I know they do that some times. Gave him a couple of dust baths and most of the yucky on his tummy came off. I also cleaned and sanitized his wheel and replaced it. He happily ran on it until Wednesday evening.
I heard some squeaking from the living room about 2am and came out see what was wrong. Some times Stitch drinks really loud at night. Stitch was fine. But, Sigmund was playing on his wheel. He had peed in the corner of his cage and there was a bit of blood near the potty puddle. I picked him up and he had a scratch on his penis. But, didn’t flinch when I touched it to check how much damage he had done. It appeared to just be an external scratch. I called the Vet and made an appointment to have him looked at.
We went in on Thursday and she looked him over, cut out the big mats on his bottom, combed him through with a comb, let him have a dust bath, and felt his tummy. She said there's no bumps. But, he was dripping a little. We aren't sure if it's because he felt threatened and he was trying to spray. She said he could also possibly have a UTI and to keep an eye on him. Other than that he’s really sweet and looks good. Seeing as how he’d only been with me for 4 days and they had to hold him down to trim the mats he could have just been nervous or afraid. I asked about what tests and what not we would do to check for UTI and she told me about a test she could run where they'd have to collect some pee from him which would be about $60 and also run an ultrasound for stones which would be $120 something. She told me to try to get him to take a little yogurt to stimulate the good flora in his tummy and reduce acid levels. I questioned her on the dairy product and she said yogurt's different because of the bacteria. Normally you shouldn’t give fatty dairy products but, the lactobacillus is good for the GI track. I was kind of hesitant still.
So, I was reading everyone's posts on acidophilus and went and got some. I tried yesterday to get him to eat some of the acidophilus, mixed with water off a spoon, but he wasn't having it. So, I tried the yogurt with it, but he wouldn't have it either. I've seen him at his water bottle a few times and he's nibbling on his hay. His poo count is less than it was yesterday.
Yesterday afternoon around 4pm I saw him sitting in the corners of his cage doing what looked like was trying to pee. He'd rear up into the corner and kind of squeeze his back legs together, best way I can describe it was like he was flexing his bum. And he was making these really quite crying sounds. I feel so bad for him. I've been feeling dehydrated myself for the last few days, so I kind of know how it feels. He was sitting on his food bowl doing the same baring down like I described kind of gripping the edges with his hands and feet and crying a little at about 7:30pm last night. I tried rubbing his tummy a little while he was doing this and he didn't flinch, but could feel him shaking and flexing his little belly. After he moved I saw a little streak on the bowl, kind of dark like maybe he peed, but it wasn't enough to even soak down to the food. (I'll be going out today to pick up a bowl to mount to the side of his cage so he won't sit in it.) Night before last night’s blanket had spots on it like he was leaking when he walked about, and there was a little piddle in the corner. I put his freshly washed blanket on top of his cage and he climbed up to check it out. He was up and about and climbing all over his cage last night and chewing on his pumice and sticks. I changed out his blanket last night and there were two corners where he had peed.
Oh, the vet also told me a little apple cider vinegar might help the tummy, but she didn’t say how much or how often. I’m guessing I’ll need another syringe to feed it to him as he probably won’t like the smell of it. Anyone tried to feed their chin’s vinegar? I know he weights 1.1 lbs. they weighed him on a cat scale. What can I do? I was going to try to pick up some rose hips and try to get him to take one with some of the acidophilus in it. I’m hesitant to give him the shredded wheat because the vet said they are prone to bloat. And if he's having problems going I don't want to plug him up more. I asked her about supplements and she said she wasn’t sure about them as she’s not a nutritionist, but sugary fruits and stuff with honey in it shouldn’t be given to them. I know a lot of posts here have suggested using lifeline for different things, but there's honey and wheat in it. She wanted me to watch him, but I don’t know for how long. I’m not sure how long he’s been having problems going either. Like I said he wasn’t living in the best conditions when I got him.
Got a cal from the vet today checking on him from a tech, our vet isn't in until tomorrow. I told them what's going on and made an appointment to have him looked at again. He's been with me a week now. Am I being too cautious? Anyone, any advice?
 
OK...this is going to sound strange. I believe that what you saw when the chin was sticking his tail up and sort of rearing up was him having a little bit of an issue with his penis. I'd check him for a fur ring, pull the entire penis out and clean it very well with some saline. Maybe use jojoba oil or some cooking oil to lubricate it a bit and get it back in the foreskin.

He has probably be chronically dehydrated if the owner kept him in such filthy conditions. But, he's urinating and that's a good sign. He could have some stones...and maybe that's what is irritating his penis. Sometimes the stones will become lodged in the urethra, and sometimes they do come out on their own. The weird flexing he did usually indicates that there's something wrong with the penis.

What I would do is keep doing what you are doing. The PB8 is a very good probiotic. Sprinkle it on the pellets and sort of mix it in a bit...it seems to coat the pellets really well. A little of that will help the gut get working better.

He should be alright for a day or two before you can go back to see the vet. I don't know if it would be worth it to do an ultrasound. Maybe a quick x-ray would be best, they can usually see stones in those.

I've never heard of vinegar for the tummy. The acidophilus and lots of good timothy hay should help with that. Shredded wheat is alright, or I should say one bite sized shredded wheat is fine. But, for now I would concentrate getting this chin to eat pellets and hay...he needs good food to recover.
 
We did a fur ring check and the vet also and he didn't have an issue. The tip of his penis did seem a little red. I'm not sure if it's supposed to look like that though. He did seem a little dry I guess. We had to re-sheath him after we checked him, it didn't go all the way by itself. I'll try the saline and lube. When he tries to go and cries. There a thread here a few threads below with a chin making a bubbling sound, same type of sound not so high pitched. He'll clean himself when he's done trying to go. He'll try to pee a couple of times, walking from corner to corner, for maybe 3 minutes before he finally gets comfy and goes to sleep. Not lethargic, it's just time for them to be asleep right now.

His previous owner told me he tried to get him to drink some gator-aid for dehydration and he jumped in it. The guy put it in a dish... some people what can I say. Should I try to syringe feed him water? Should I force feed him a little too? Maybe grind up some pellets and water with the PB8?

While they are doing the x-ray does it check for teeth also, or is that a separate thing? The Timothy hay cube I put in his cage is slowly disappearing, but there's a little bit of crumbs on the ground. Think I should be concerned with his teeth also? They look nice and orange, not long or extended. Maybe he's just a messy eater? The loose hay I put in there last night was mostly gone this morning, so I refilled it. How much do x-rays and urine tests usually run?

Should I have them do the urine test still? Or how about a screening for parasites? I'm not sure if he was being fed tap water, or not. I know the water here is bad. There are times when it smells like bleach coming out of the tap and other times it smells like sewer water. We use our Britta pitcher for our water and the chins.

When I took him in to the vet she told me if he did have a UTI that she’d give him Enrofloxacin. That’s what Stitch is on right now for his bumble foot. Does that sound right? Is it necessary? Is there something else I could give him that wouldn’t be so hard on his tummy if it does end up being a UTI?

I think the ultrasound might be for if he ends up having stones. Maybe to break them up inside him so they can pass?

I really want to call his previous owner and chew him out for how he treated Sigmund. :(
 
Just one thing, I don't have help with his peeing issue, but if he does have stones, you don't want to give him extra calcium. So you would want to take the cuttle bone out. Are his teeth a yellow/orange color? If so, he has enough calcium and doesn't need the extras.
 
Give the Baytril (enrofloxacin) injectable instead of orally and you won't have stomach issues.
 
Oh, injectable.. Just sounds scarry. Have any of you had to do the injectable? How did you do it? I hope Sigmund won't need it.

Stitch has been on the oral for a week now and has been eating fine still. I mixed some of the BP8 into his food as well. He developed bumble foot, so I'm padding everything and cleaning daily. First couple days he really fought me with the oral meds. But, now I hold him foot ball style, get him to taste it and as long as he's licking his lips I can keep feeding.
 
Sorry to hear your new guy is in such rough shape. I can't help much with the urinary/etc issues, but I do have one suggestion for water filtering. Brita generally only filters out contaminants like chlorine - if you're concerned about parasitic infections, you would want to use a Pur (or other similar) filter; these are very fine filters that will remove microorganisms. Good luck!
 
Humm I'll check into the Pur filter. I'm not sure weather we do have issues here with parasites. It just crossed my mind that if he's having problems relieving him-self what it could possibly be. That and I want to make sure I have a list of questions to ask the vet about when we see her tomorrow. I've already seen her 2x this week. It's beginning to get expensive. I calle another vet in the valley and they are cheaper but their exotics vet wont be in until Tuesday.
 
Pretty much all tap water can have giardia. But normally it's at a level humans can handle. But being small, chins are more susceptible to getting giardia. On the box for the filter it should say if it filters out giardia. If it doesn't say, then you need to get a different filter.
 
Is sounds like a very good possibility that your chin has a UTI. I am very surprised the vet did not try to get a small amount of urine from him on the first visit and test it then. A UTI is very serious and painful for a chin and should be treated asap. Even if a chin dribbles a small amount of urine it is enough for them to put on a slide and look at.

The oral Baytril is what I have given in the past for a UTI, but it takes a good 14 days for recovery. If he is in pain from that, Metacam would help give him some relief.

His diet was so bad before you got him that it will take a little bit to get him on a healthy path. Keep giving him the hay and a good quality pellet. Fluids are very important if he has a UTI. Get bottled water for him, it will help flush any toxins from his body.

You do not need to have an ultra sound to check for bladder stones. An x-ray will show a stone very easily (it shows as a white spot) and it will cost you less.

I gather the vet did not think he was bloated from the previous diet he was on?
 
Never had this problem with my chins, but I was thinking maybe a extra water bottle with 50% cranberry juice 50% water might help him? What do you guys think? Thank you for rescuing this poor guy!
PS I meant in addition to a regular water bottle, vet care and correct meds.
 
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He just needs good, fresh, clean water. It just sounds like he's having a hard time passing urine because his penis is uncomfortable. (Today I think someone made a bet on how many times they could get me to type the word "penis.") It could be a UTI or it could be a lodged stone. Since he is passing some urine I am hoping that it is just a simple infection that came about from filthy conditions that will clear up in a few days using the Baytril. :)

I don't think giving him fruit juice would be a good idea right now. He just needs water...I'm not sure if he would get any benefit from cranberry juice. I can't imagine it would have the same beneficial effect that people get from it.

Also, with the Baytril, I don't think that giving it for more than 7 days would be necessary. It is very hard on the digestive tract. Many chins that have had the oral baytril here go off their pellets and I have to handfeed them.

I prefer injectible, but my vet doesn't like me to administer it that way. It irritates the fat under the skin if given under the skin, it can be hard to inject it into the muscle especially with a rescue chin that probably doesn't have much muscle mass in the back leg.

I like Baytril because it knocks out infections like UTIs quickly, but it has a lot of drawbacks. There are other antibiotics that can be used, but they may not be as effective.

I'd get an x-ray and look for stones - they could be in the bladder and in the penis, there is no guarantee that there's only one stone since there could multiple stones. If they aren't present, go with a course of antibiotics because it is probably a UTI.

The bladderstones can be caused by poor diet, too many treats, probably not staying hydrated enough and, who knows, maybe even heredity. I know that this won't happen, but the person, who sold you this chin, should pay for his veterinary care. This is a pre-existing type condition. I wonder what the laws in Nevada are about the health of animals being sold - there may be a chance that you are owed the vet bills or what you paid for the chin.
 
Yeah the vet mentioned cranberry juice or possibly cranberry itself. But we were going to wait a bit to see how he was adjusting. He's getting the water still no mix-ins. I'm hoping it's just a UTI as well.

She, the vet, also told me there were a couple of medicines to give a chin to fight infection and one works, but another other can be bad for them. She said she knew what to give them. Made me think they can only have one type of drug. This was for Stitch's bumblefoot.

I'll have her do the x-ray just incase, yah never know.

I'm glad I got him even if he is sick. I think I can give him a better home.

I'm not sure what the law here is about the pre-existing condition of animals for sale. I told the guy I'd let him know how Sigmund was doing. He told me he wanted to have someone who had previous experiece with chins to take care of him, so I'm pretty sure the guys wasn't heartless. It would be nice if he gave me the money back, so I could pay the vet bill. But, we'll see what he says when I tell him about it. Think the ASPCA would know about those laws?
 
I would say to stay with bottled water only at this time. Yes, cranberries can be good for urinary problems (even with animals), but since he was not tested you are not 100% sure what you are dealing with. At times, the acidity in cranberries can actually be irritating depending on the situation. Pure water is the best way to flush is system right now.

A UTI is very serious and can be difficult to get rid of, therefore this is one time when a full 10 - 14 days of antibiotics is usually neccesary. If you stop them before the infection is completely gone you risk having to start all over again. There are different meds available and some are better than others depending on the problem, but until you KNOW what the exact problem is, you may be wasting time.

Your vet has got to see if he has a urinary infection or not. If he has stones, the Baytril will do nothing for that and he may be getting the wrong form of treatment. With the condition of this chins health, it is not the time for her to be guessing what may be wrong and giving meds 'just in case' type of thinking.
 
A lot of good information has been given here. I would just add that if he's NOT drinking enough water it might not be a bad idea to add another bottle of mixed cranberry juice and water. Maybe not 50/50, but like 25% cranberry, 75% water. The more he drinks, the better at this point. Just a thought.
 
Wow. Now I want to puke. I called around and found a cheaper vet who has more experience. They did a urine test and an x-ray. He has a big kidney stone the size of a pencil eraser in his kidney. They pulled the x-ray up and showed me the stone. There's no way it would go anywhere by itself. You could see rings on the stone, so it has been growing for a while. She said that stones are caused from bad diet. After I told her all about his previous living conditions she said he was lucky I adopted him. This vet owns the hospital, has exotics experience with chins, and has done a few operations on rabbits, cats, and chinchillas. I had to leave him there for surgery today. They had to put him under anistesia (sevoflurane), monitered his oxygen, had him on a cathider, and IV, gave a Baytril injection, and removed the stone. They called me after and said he was awake again and they got the stone out. It was just one stone in his kidney. He has an infection. He's now on pain meds as well and staying the night tonight at the vet. They are supposed to call me tomorrow morning to let me know how he did over night, and if I can take him home, or if he should stay there another night. They told me he'd be on Baytril suspension and pain meds when I take him home. They are supposed to go over everything again when I go to pick him up. He'll wear a collar so he won't pick at his insicion. I asked them about running other tests for paricites, but they said unless they present symptoms (like diharea) there's really no need. They did do a urine test though to check for infection.
I asked about the water filter. The vet said the biggest thing here in Vegas to worry about are the minerals, and if I wanted to be sure about the water to get distilled. Then I asked her if they should have supliments for replacing minerals if they were on distilled water. She said as long as they are eating a healthy diet with the pellets and hay they should be getting all the minerals they need. I’m feeding my guys Mazuri. No need for cuttle bones either. If they are having problems with stones then the added calcium can make it worse, so I'm going to find someone with a bird to give my extra cuttle bones too. Maybe I'm make a dollar back to pay off the $1400 vet bill! Ouchie! Might have to break out the sewing machine and start sewing chin toys to cover Sigmund’s expenses…
I hope he doesn’t have any more problems. I hate hearing him cry. They want him to come back in 2 weeks for a check up, another x-ray, and to make sure he’s healing well.
 
Sounds like the new vet is very knowledgable and has it under control. One thing I wanted to suggest though was to ask for Critical Care. Most often chins who are recovering from a surgery/illness will become anorexic and you will need to take it upon yourself to handfeed until they are back up to par and able to feed themselves again. Baytril suspension has also been known to cause some chins to go off of their feed, so CC would definitely be a good thing to have. I suspect you'll have to use it for at least a few days anyway while your chin is recovering from surgery.

I wish you guys the best of luck.
 
Oh man. You did the right thing taking in the little guy and then still got hit with a gigantic vet bill. I'm so sorry. :( I'm glad that it was just one stone that that it wasn't lodged anywhere causing any damage.

I think it is really interesting that tap water could have enough minerals in it to cause an issue. I always use reverse osmosis water with my chins...I'd use distilled if I could afford the 5 gallon bottles (They're like $8 each delivered.)

I'm hoping that he makes it through all of this. It is a very taxing surgery for any chin to have done. Life Line would be a good thing to have on hand. www.chocolatechinchillas.com.

When my Meega had her c-section the Life Line was the only thing I could get to jump start her digestive system and get her eating again.



If you can sew, could you make pouches for chins? LOL I will buy some from you. Fleece pouches maybe 12" wide x 12"tall x 3" deep are great for taming down chins and everyone always wants to buy one when they are here... Just a thought. :p
 
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