Limited breeding

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broderp

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
169
Location
Ohio
We are looking at\considering adding a few new chins in the spring or summer. (we love them THAT much)

We are NOT looking into going into business or becoming a breeder, but my wife wants to have a few babies out of the group.

I am attempting to learn about the logistics of such and endeavor, based on cage requirements both short term and long term as well as the hierarchy of chin society (who will get along with who). Not to mention who can breed with who. Its a moving target and a LOT to get straight in my head. In the end its gonna rely a LOT on what sex kits are born (if any) and how many.

Anyone have any insight into "limited breeding"? I don't want to sell, (my wife would get too attached and refuse to sell,) but I just want to have maybe 6-10 chins at most. Having them nuetred would have to be an option afterwards as well.

Has anyone successfully done this? If so please tell of your experience, good or bad.
 
Just to head this off at the pass - when you have babies, you ARE a breeder. There is no limited breeding. You may have a few or you may have 1000s, but once you produce offspring, whether it's 1 or 10,000, you are a breeder.

If you want to learn about breeding, start with the breeding and babies section and read everything in there, including the horror stories section. Then go to the show section and start jotting down shows in your area so you can go and learn what a good quality chin is. Find an experienced mentor and start learning from them. An experienced mentor is not someone who has one pair of chins they bought from Petsmart and put together.

If you're going to breed and keep every single offspring for yourself, then you will need to constantly get new cages. You cannot breed dad to a daughter or mom to a son. You do not breed brother to sister. There are folks who do line breeding, but they are very experienced and they only use animals that are of top quality that they want to lock in specific traits. I have been breeding for 10 years and have never even thought about line breeding, nor will I.

Also consider that breeding just to have babies is how we end up with page after page after page of rescues on petfinder.com. You put your female at risk, you put your male at risk, you put your wallet at risk. That doesn't include kit deaths, time missed from work in case of a need to hand feed every 2 hours 24/7 for the first 3 weeks, etc. Breeding just to have babies is not a very good reason to start breeding.
 
Is it really worth risking one of your pet females or males just to get cute furry babies? If you want more chins, adopt them from a rescue. Like Peggy said, there are literally hundreds of chins sitting in rescues that need a home. If you want more, please consider adopting a chin that already needs a home instead of just making more.

There are so many risks associated with breeding that there is no way I could risk one of my pet chins just to get more chins, especially when there are so many that already need homes. I would be devastated if I woke up one morning to a dead mom that I was close to and mangled kits.
 
It seems like with the chins it needs to be all or nothing. I agree with Peggy...once you put a male and a female together you are breeding. I can't tell you how many people have started out with their breeding in just the way you have described. They get in over their heads in a hurry. The best thing to do is to keep chins as happy pets and just enjoy them.

A 2 am trip to an emergency vet with a mother chin gushing blood because something went wrong in delivery is not very enjoyable. Trust me on that! There is always huge potential for problems when breeding. When things go perfectly it's a breeze and it can be fun, but when things go wrong a lot of us breeders say to ourselves, "Why on earth did I ever start doing this?"

Sometimes I think that I should probably not have started breeding or even had more than a few chins. Even when I just had maybe 6 to 10 chins they consumed my life. The second litter that was born to us the mother had problems and didn't pass the kit in a timely manner - the little thing ended up being stillborn. Please take it seriously before you start. You can always take in chins that need you that are already here!
 
*raises hand*

I've got at least 25 rescue chins here looking for homes right now.
They came from someone who got into breeding and couldn't stop.
You sure you want to add to the current chin population?
 
There are sooooooooooooooo many chins out there looking for a home. There are a few rescues in Ohio that are overflowing with chins and are unable to take in more until some of the ones they have are adopted. If you really want to add chins to your family I would recommend checking out some nearby rescues. This way you get the added chins you want without putting your current chins at risk. There really is no reason to breed anymore other then to better the species, and having cute babies just to do it isn't bettering the species. Please think things through and please don't put your chins at risk just for the heck of it.
 
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Even when I just had maybe 6 to 10 chins they consumed my life.

I second this! i have 9 and i can not get away with less than 1 hour per day of interaction and maintenance. even when i am sick or tired, they are the priority.

i also am trying to plan a simple weekend away and trying to coordinate care for 9 chins, 1 guinea pig, & 1 dog is a lot of work, not to mention the worrying that takes place while i am away.

i can't agree more about adopting chins in need. i know babies are cute but some require more care than an infant child! and there are tons of chins under age 1 available on all types of rescue sites.

however; if you do consider moving forward, i definitely suggest making sure you have quality chins and you do the research and attend the shows.
 
Even when I just had maybe 6 to 10 chins they consumed my life.

I have one and she consumes my life so....yyeeaaa.

I second the suggestion to look at adopting chins. I understand if you want to have that experience of taking care of babies, but with adoption you'll avoid the fragile health issues with newborns and potentially costly vet visits that are associated with them and pregnant mothers. You can also look into buying chins from already established breeders. If you're interested in breeding, maybe see if there are any breeders near you that will educate you or kind of let you shadow or even volunteer at their facility.

It seems as though even if you just want to breed chins a few times, you need to know all the information that people who have bred thousands of chins know. You'll have to be just as educated and from what I've heard, it's a lot of education to cram into your brain. Seems like it's more of a major life change, which is totally fine if that's what you want, just saying you might be better off learning all you can first so you won't run into any problems or get overwhelmed. Obviously, that is in a way what you're doing since you're asking for information but I think maybe you might need to educate yourself for longer than a few months to start a program.
 
Okay I'm going to answer the original question--I have experience with limited breeding so I'll share my results with you. I too started out with one chin LOVED it so much I got others. I got a boy chin from a petstore got another boy chin from a friend and put them together. Then I found out the boy chin from the petstore was not a boy chin but in fact a girl. She ran away, no lie--she ate a whole in the screen window and ran away, and I was devastated, my boyfriend bought me another chin that looked just like her. Then my girl was found, so now I have 2 girls and one boy chin. Girls lived together, boy lived alone. I discovered in time the once boy chin was pregnant, but ALSO discovered the new girl pregnant as well--obviously I had bought her not knowing she was pregnant. So I had 2 females at the same time pregnant. Bobo and Abigail are their names. Abigail got a URI, she was very, VERY sick. I took her to the vet and told the vet I believed she was pregnant. The vet did not agree and put her on Baytril which should never be given to a pregnant or nursing chin as it affects the growth of any kits. I was very lucky my Abigail survived her illness, a URI is deadly in chins especially when they are already weakened from being pregnant. 5 days after her last baytril treatment she gave birth to 3 premature babies. Prior to this happening and I mean days prior, I crunched Gordon in the livingroom recliner. My brain said ok you lost your beloved Gordon but now you have 3 more babies to replace (a chin can never be replaced in your heart I soon learned) I thought i had it covered, lucky for me I found the forum because of what had happened to Gordon, so I knew about hand feeding babies. I assumed the babies should be hand fed because they were SO tiny. I didn't let Abigail take care of them on her own. I went out and bought everything I should, I worked 3rd shift, while I was at work my son stayed up and fed the babies every 2 hours, I came home slept for about 4 hours to give him a break then got up and took care of them until I went into work. You DON'T really know how to handfeed babies the first time you do it. You think it's important to stuff as much milk into them as possible. I KNOW I aspirated my kits, they all died within 10 days. 2 died in my hand, 1 died in my son's hand--my son who was 19 at that time crying because his little chinchilla he tried for days to keep alive did not live. Some people say, Laurie you don't know if that's what happened, they were born premature, they could have gotten Abby's URI from the cage, lots of things could have happened. BUT I believe it's because I was not prepared at all despite all I read--and believe me I read a lot. I should have waited to see if Abigail caring for them would be enough. I just assumed she was weak from being sick, I assumed they needed more than their mother's milk. A week after all of Abby's babies died Bobo gave birth to 2 kits, not premature, very healthy. Again because I did not know better I missed that one of them was constantly wet down the front, I assumed it was from milking at his mothers teet, I did not know until it was too late that he was not thriving, and again this little boy died in my hand after living 2 weeks. After he passed my son noticed he did not have appear to have a tongue. From the 5 kits I had born to me with my "limited" breeding I have one--GiGi. She is named after her father who I killed--GG for Gordon's Girl.

After Bobo and Abigail had babies they HATED each other. They could not be in the same cage together anymore. I was lucky in that I had 3 cages and separated Abby from Bobo when I noticed her sick--Bobo could have just as easily developed a URI. I tried to put them all back together--tried to see if Abby could help nurse some of Bobo's babies but that was not happening. Bobo and Abby fought and Bobo ate 3 of Abby's toes off. So two girls that once loved each other and snuggled constantly now hated each other. So Abigail had not only lost 3 babies she lost her cage mate. To this day they absolutely hate each other.

I currently have males and females. I look at them all the time and go I wonder what a baby from so and so would look like--I wonder this for about a second.

You say your wife could never give up a kit born to you, to me that sounds like she is a really loving and caring person. I've been told I am as well, which is why I KNOW your wife would be absolutely devastated if what happened to me happened to her--if you had kits born you did not know how to care for--if you didn't know how to feed properly should they need to be hand fed. I know your wife will be heartbroken if something goes wrong during the labor process and she has a mother die--or perhaps mother and all the kits die.

I think if this is something you and your wife truly want to do then be responsible and don't go into this lightly. Find a breeder near you--ask them to mentor you, ask them to allow you to visit and see kits first hand, ask them if they ever have to hand feed to show you how to do it. Ask them the true horror stories of breeding. Also if you want to know who should breed, what colors should be together, then become a member of MCBA--attend shows. LEARN about the animal you are wanting to breed albeit just for a few babies--do your homework, take some time.

After Abigail's babies died and GiGi's brother died, I attended my first chinchilla show, I've gone every year since. I am a member of MCBA I go to the seminars in my area, I met people who breed, I made friends with them, I ask them if I can come and see babies and they let me--they let me hold them and see them. I have offered my help in hand feeding, but am also terrified should the time ever come they take me up on such offer.

It's enough for me to never breed again--I love all my chins too much to see them die or to see them lose babies they carried.

So I urge you if you really want to do this, don't take a month to decide--really look into this and find and get some help and follow the Boy Scout Motto--Be Prepared before you actually go forth with it.
 
I'll be bluntly honest here, and I'm sorry if it's hurtful, but when I hear that "cute little babies" spiel, I usually ask myself if the person saying it actually likes the animals they already have. Why are babies so much better than adults? They're way more work and worry, and more resources (more food as they're growing, etc.) with almost no guarantee that the baby will retain the qualities that made it the "better" pet in the first place. I got Crash as a 3 mo old kit from ForCHINate Chins in Cleveland, and unfortunately, his personality changed SO MUCH at puberty, I'm starting to think he needs to be an only chin for the safety of the other chins caged with him. There is no guarantee a "cute little kit" is going to be a good pet. There's no guarantee a "cute little kit" will even make it out of the birth canal in one piece. Breeding these animals should not be a hobby; they're too delicate and too expensive to vet, as well as being too overpopulated for the available rescues and pet homes as it is.

Also, you've had Chili and Chalupa for about a year or so, right? That's about enough time to start to get to know them and their quirks and personalities, but you'll cut into that bonding and play time seriously when you add more animals. And more animals means more mess, which means more cleaning and even less time to just enjoy your pets.

Please, don't do this. I say that as a pet owner devoted to rescue (of all kinds of animals, not just chins) who has also purchased a 'cull' from a good small-scale breeder. Even Tunes has said that she wishes all of her chins could live in the kind of home most of the pet only owners here provide, but that it's not practical for someone that could have kits appear at any moment and has multiple animals to feed every day.

Unless you're prepared to shell out $3,000 at a vet, lose a beloved pet in spite of every medical effort, and still have to spend a few hundred getting the kits she orphaned grown up and healthy, leave breeding to the experienced people. Or help them out by providing a good home for the lower-quality animals that still deserve loving homes instead.
 
Laurie that's an amazing story. Thank you for sharing it. I know I'm SO glad I found this forum. Visiting or volunteering with a local reputable breeder sounds like a great suggestion. You could see the babies, maybe help out in giving out hay or weighing, and then get to go home and not have to deal with all of the scary things that could go wrong. I say leave it to the professionals.

I think he's only had the chins since Christmas, but if you're thinking of breeding in summer please at least take this time to weigh all the factors and read through the breeding threads - even if you are only just thinking of doing limited breeding.
 
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I have pedigree and rescues here. I do limited breeding. I do not breed my rescues which have been here for about 4 years or longer. I had 1 female in breeding last year she had 1 kit in Feb. She also had a breed back in May and had 2 babies. 2 of the babies took 1st place and one went on to win color class at the CA Show 2011. I also show my animals. I now have 3 females in breeding right now. I am limited because I have not sold any chins as of today but that is my choice. I do have some males that are neutered. They were to aggressive with other males so I had to put them in with females. I have 1 cage with 4 males and next to them are 3 females. There is cardboard
where neither of them can see each other. All of my chins seem to be getting along so far. There was a week which I call my lazy week maybe last year where I wish I didn't have them. It is my responsibility to make sure they have clean cages, water, and food.

I also had my 1st string of show chins that 2 of the babies came down with malo. One was my GSC BV female. Her full sister from another litter also came down with it. The mom and dad are from respectable breeders. I had to have mom and dad all their babies, and the other babies from the dad x-ray. I had 10 chins x-ray and the cost was $75.00 each. I need to get the 8 back in to have their x-rays done again.

You might want to consider about breeding since there are a lot that can go wrong.
 
I've considered limited breeding and decided that it isn't for me. One of the big reasons not mentioned is that I like the time I get to spend with my boys. Right now they are a joy and we spend almost two hours a day carrying for them. If I breed them and kept their babies it could become a chore.

Another reason is that I would have to control the population so after the first births I would have to prevent any further pregnancies. This means either putting my boys at risk by neutering them or possibly keeping the boys and girls separate for life. Especially if I keep all the babies.

Finally when I did go looking for mates for my two boy, who have been shown, I saw all the boys that breeders were selling. Most of them were of very good quality but in less demand than girls. So we just got another boy and are leaving it at that.
 
When I first got my two chins, I was so excited by the whole chin-owning experience that I was really tempted to go out and buy more chins. I also thought it would be neat to breed my chins. However, I made myself stop at the ones I had, and I pretty quickly came to the realization that I didn't want to breed. Now, I'm so glad I didn't jump in and buy a bunch more chins shortly after I got my first ones. I'm happy with my two girls and I'm glad I don't have more cages to clean, more feed and supplies to buy, and more potential vet bills to worry about.

I see a lot of people come on this forum right after they get a chin or two, and suddenly they have 10 chins, only a couple of months after they got their first one. These people usually end up being in over their heads. If you want to get more chins and maybe breed someday, I recommend waiting awhile. Get to really know the chins you already have first. Maybe you'll decide, like me, that you really don't want more chins after all, and wouldn't it be better to realize that BEFORE you have a dozen chins?
 
IMPO there is no such thing as limited breeding. You are breeding or you are not. and if you are breeding it should be to improve not just "for the experiance" or cause "my wife wants cute fuzzy babies" wanna come home to a disimbowled kit? still alive from an attack? read the Horror stories when things go south they can get pretty bad
 
Agreed, lets cut this "limited breeding" term out. I think it's dangerous for people to say "Well, I am only a limited breeder so I don't need to show, do research, buy pedigreed stock, etc." when you most certainly do need to do those things.

I welcome those who want to learn and breed for the right reasons into the aspiring breeders circle. I do not consider cute babies a right reason, in fact, more often than not they only look cute - I have pulled my hands back from cages with babies HANGING from my hand by their teeth. I have nursed a 3 day old kit back from serious injuries from littermates and being ignored by mom. For a good look at what kits can do to kits and mothers can do to kits read through Erin's thread about the kit with the HOLE in it's head. That (fighting) happens - A LOT - in multiple litters. And then not to mention all the other complications that come along with it. I lost three out of 4 kits weaned together in a cage due to pneumonia - i held my favorite in my hands and sobbed and sobbed as he just gave up. I lost the first kit of last year because i was so exhausted from handfeeding I missed shutting a jumphole cover and poor little X1 was trampled. I had one tiny one live for 3 days and just wouldnt eat and I had two still born kits that were just masses of unrecognizable fur born. No, it's definately not all cute babies. If that's why I was doing it I would have given up a lonnng time ago.

Great post Laurie.
 
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I agree on the "limited breeding". It's a way to make people feel like they aren't breeding, they don't need as high of standards, they don't need to worry about as much...

Either you're a breeder or you're not. You're not a "limited parent" you don't have a baby and say okay I'm going to have a baby or two ( human ones I'm talking about ) and say but I'm just going to be a limited parent since I'm not having eleven of them. Either you are, or you aren't.

My last cute little babies... I walked in to find three dead in the cage, one I resuscitated ( you know she was limited dead ) only to have the mother kill her less than 12 hrs later after standing at the sink for 30 minutes rubbing and hoping. But I'm sure that only happens to non-limited breeders.
 
Wow, everyone is hung up on the semantics of the term "Limited Breeding".

I had a ton of stuff written here, but deleted it, as I don't want to get into an argument about what is a breeder or not. I'm just looking into some guidance on how to proceed or NOT to proceed.

We are NOT just going to throw two chins together and see what happens. Money is not really a factor, I was more curious as to the benefits and feasibility of doing it, and doing it PROPERLY.

Are chins really THAT delicate to breed and THAT problematic? Or does the sheer numbers breeders deal with mean you see all these issues more so than the average person who accidentally winds up with a boy and girl chin, base don a pet store screw up? They've been around for many, many years, one would think nature would have nearly perfected the process by now.

I appreciate all the information about the pitfalls of doing what we propose. It's a real eye opener to know its more than the original logistical nightmare of cages vs. kit sex etc.
 
Breeding is a worse case scenario, you need to go into it, even for one litter prepared for the worst to happen. I had a mom litter 5 kits once... everything went well, but yea, five kits, she is not equipped to take care of that many kits. I lost my favorite beige female to birthing, she was so blue she didn't even look like any beige I'd ever seen before. One of my favorite standards, she lost two litters and was stuck in labor before I found out that her pelvis was too small to pass the kits, one emergency c-section later at the vet 1 1/2 hrs away, one miracle baby still alive, and I ended up losing the mother to complications of the c-section/spay later anyway.

Call it what you want to make you sleep better at night, breeding is breeding no matter if it's one or 10000. Some chins can also be together for years before producing, others will bred through the wire ( had it happen... twice). Some chins will simply try to tear each other apart, some females will turn into terrors when in heat. Sometimes everything is fine.

You have to think that this is NOT natures chinchilla. This is the chinchilla that has been selectively ( hopefully anyway ) bred for coming up on 100 years now. Nature didn't perfect this breeding, people breed chins that shouldn't be, people keep chins alive who naturally would have died, our chins today, probably wouldn't stand a chance in the wild.

Breeders who have more chins will see more issues. I know of a younger breeder who in her first three litters has one get attacked to the point the skin now repaired pulls on the face and barely survived, same breeder had quads that the mom couldn't care for all of due to lack of milk, unable to hand feed around the clock they drove over 3 hrs three times to bring one kit, then the other, then to pick them up from me because I had mothers I could foster them on to, same mother didn't clean properly and ended up on antibiotics, and another kit attack... all in the first two litters. It's not always just about numbers, this breeder has about 12 animals, and they aren't all in breeding.

I understand that money is not the factor, but it's not always about the money for the medical care and such, it's the fact it might not work, like my c-section, I paid for it and still lost the mother. When you open that breeding run or set up that pair, you need to know that is a possibility.
 
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