Limited breeding

[ABBY W.]

Broderp, first I applaud your efforts to find out about breeding BEFORE you do it. I'm sorry if you've felt attacked. So many times, we hear on this forum that people have thrown their two petstore animals together, and NOW they're expecting babies, and what should they do? Or worse yet, the babies have arrived, there's a serious problem and they have no clue about even the basics. It's the animals that suffer the most in those scenarios, and that kind of irresponsibility makes most of us angry.

That being said, breeding is not something that should be taken lightly. It can be the most rewarding experience, and it can be the most heartbreaking. There are plenty of horror stories out there. And, I agree with Riven, you have to be prepared for the worst case scenario. Most deliveries go fine. Some go badly, and often when they go badly, they go VERY VERY badly. Are you and your wife prepared to spend $1500 on an emergency c-section? Are you prepared to handfeed orphaned kits every two hours around the clock for weeks? If not, then breeding would be a bad idea, because those things may be necessary. Are you and your wife prepared for the possibility that one of your mated pairings may end up hating each other one night for no reason and one rips the face off the other? Are you prepared to have a kit born sick and despite your best efforts it dies? Because that could happen. Unfortunately, breeding is not always fun, and it can be heartbreaking to the point of questioning why you do it in the first place. It is not for the faint of heart, or the weak of stomach.

So now that you have some of the realities and unpleasantries of breeding, if you and your wife still want to do it, I would suggest you start reading as much as you can about genetics, animal husbandry, and all the possible complications and how to handle them. You should meet with a reputable breeder and discuss what to look for in breeding quality animals, and allow them to guide you. There are a number of reputable long-term breeders in Ohio, and upcoming shows you could attend as well. The MCBA website also has a number of reference books you could purchase, most notably by Alice Kline.

I hope this has been helpful, and I hope you will continue to ask questions and educate yourself about these wonderful animals.

 

[ticklechin]

I feel like a broken record, BUT if you love chins that much and want to add then why not give some rescues fur-ever homes rather than adding to the population of pet chinchillas? Why is it that no one wants to step up and say I would LOVE to breed but I would rather give a adult chin a home so I will forgo learing to breed and give a rescue a home? I just don't understand why every TOM DICK and HARRY wants to breed chins as soon as they get them, go look into a rescues eyes and tell them Sorry Buddy, you will get no home because I want to experience BABIES.

 

[chexy114]

From what I've read about breeding, it seems very risky to the chins involved. You seem to be a very loving pet owner, so do you really want to risk the adorable and wonderful chins you already have? It would be devastating if something happened to them, just because you wanted to add to your chin family when there are other options out there. They don't stay little for very long, and losing a beloved pet just to see it's baby isn't worth it. I'm not trying to attack you or anything, and I don't have any breeding tips to share, but why risk the life of something that you love? I mean maybe everything will go smoothly, but maybe it won't. Is it worth it? You don't buy pets so they can do what you want them to (especially chinchillas) you buy them because you want a companion. You have two beautiful companions who can give you many years of happiness, being just the way they are. Go give them a friend from a rescue if you want to expand your chin family, make another chins life a good one.

If you are really curious about baby chinchillas, why don't you contact a breeder in your area to get a good look at one? When I went to my breeder to pick out Momiji, she had a 3 day old baby that I got to look at. I didn't touch it of course, but I still got to see it, and I was really glad that I did.

Personally I think chinchillas look like big fat babies no matter what the age :3

 

[Ash]

Broder, it obviously has nothing to do with the number of chins you have in breeding. Did you see Laurie's story? Laurie only bred twice. I've had three litters... the first, I went about it wrong. My m/f were from breeders, but I didn't really know anything yet about quality and they shouldn't have been bred. The birth and rearing went fine, but when I tried to re-intro my pair after weaning, the female attacked the male. He ended up with a broken leg and died from complications from that. My second 'litter' was from a rehome i'd gotten from a classmate who had 1 stillborn kit after she got to me. I'm starting to dab into breeding again, and so far, so good, but I've also only had one litter. That means only 1/3 of my births have been 'successful'. So no, it has nothing to do with the numbers you have.

 

[broderp]

Breeding is a worse case scenario, you need to go into it, even for one litter prepared for the worst to happen. I had a mom litter 5 kits once... everything went well, but yea, five kits, she is not equipped to take care of that many kits. I lost my favorite beige female to birthing, she was so blue she didn't even look like any beige I'd ever seen before. One of my favorite standards, she lost two litters and was stuck in labor before I found out that her pelvis was too small to pass the kits, one emergency c-section later at the vet 1 1/2 hrs away, one miracle baby still alive, and I ended up losing the mother to complications of the c-section/spay later anyway.

Call it what you want to make you sleep better at night, breeding is breeding no matter if it's one or 10000. Some chins can also be together for years before producing, others will bred through the wire ( had it happen... twice). Some chins will simply try to tear each other apart, some females will turn into terrors when in heat. Sometimes everything is fine.

You have to think that this is NOT natures chinchilla. This is the chinchilla that has been selectively ( hopefully anyway ) bred for coming up on 100 years now. Nature didn't perfect this breeding, people breed chins that shouldn't be, people keep chins alive who naturally would have died, our chins today, probably wouldn't stand a chance in the wild.

Breeders who have more chins will see more issues. I know of a younger breeder who in her first three litters has one get attacked to the point the skin now repaired pulls on the face and barely survived, same breeder had quads that the mom couldn't care for all of due to lack of milk, unable to hand feed around the clock they drove over 3 hrs three times to bring one kit, then the other, then to pick them up from me because I had mothers I could foster them on to, same mother didn't clean properly and ended up on antibiotics, and another kit attack... all in the first two litters. It's not always just about numbers, this breeder has about 12 animals, and they aren't all in breeding.

I understand that money is not the factor, but it's not always about the money for the medical care and such, it's the fact it might not work, like my c-section, I paid for it and still lost the mother. When you open that breeding run or set up that pair, you need to know that is a possibility.

Broderp, first I applaud your efforts to find out about breeding BEFORE you do it. I'm sorry if you've felt attacked. So many times, we hear on this forum that people have thrown their two petstore animals together, and NOW they're expecting babies, and what should they do? Or worse yet, the babies have arrived, there's a serious problem and they have no clue about even the basics. It's the animals that suffer the most in those scenarios, and that kind of irresponsibility makes most of us angry.

That being said, breeding is not something that should be taken lightly. It can be the most rewarding experience, and it can be the most heartbreaking. There are plenty of horror stories out there. And, I agree with Riven, you have to be prepared for the worst case scenario. Most deliveries go fine. Some go badly, and often when they go badly, they go VERY VERY badly. Are you and your wife prepared to spend $1500 on an emergency c-section? Are you prepared to handfeed orphaned kits every two hours around the clock for weeks? If not, then breeding would be a bad idea, because those things may be necessary. Are you and your wife prepared for the possibility that one of your mated pairings may end up hating each other one night for no reason and one rips the face off the other? Are you prepared to have a kit born sick and despite your best efforts it dies? Because that could happen. Unfortunately, breeding is not always fun, and it can be heartbreaking to the point of questioning why you do it in the first place. It is not for the faint of heart, or the weak of stomach.

So now that you have some of the realities and unpleasantries of breeding, if you and your wife still want to do it, I would suggest you start reading as much as you can about genetics, animal husbandry, and all the possible complications and how to handle them. You should meet with a reputable breeder and discuss what to look for in breeding quality animals, and allow them to guide you. There are a number of reputable long-term breeders in Ohio, and upcoming shows you could attend as well. The MCBA website also has a number of reference books you could purchase, most notably by Alice Kline.

I hope this has been helpful, and I hope you will continue to ask questions and educate yourself about these wonderful animals.

From what I've read about breeding, it seems very risky to the chins involved. You seem to be a very loving pet owner, so do you really want to risk the adorable and wonderful chins you already have? It would be devastating if something happened to them, just because you wanted to add to your chin family when there are other options out there. They don't stay little for very long, and losing a beloved pet just to see it's baby isn't worth it. I'm not trying to attack you or anything, and I don't have any breeding tips to share, but why risk the life of something that you love? I mean maybe everything will go smoothly, but maybe it won't. Is it worth it? You don't buy pets so they can do what you want them to (especially chinchillas) you buy them because you want a companion. You have two beautiful companions who can give you many years of happiness, being just the way they are. Go give them a friend from a rescue if you want to expand your chin family, make another chins life a good one.

If you are really curious about baby chinchillas, why don't you contact a breeder in your area to get a good look at one? When I went to my breeder to pick out Momiji, she had a 3 day old baby that I got to look at. I didn't touch it of course, but I still got to see it, and I was really glad that I did.

Personally I think chinchillas look like big fat babies no matter what the age :3

Broder, it obviously has nothing to do with the number of chins you have in breeding. Did you see Laurie's story? Laurie only bred twice. I've had three litters... the first, I went about it wrong. My m/f were from breeders, but I didn't really know anything yet about quality and they shouldn't have been bred. The birth and rearing went fine, but when I tried to re-intro my pair after weaning, the female attacked the male. He ended up with a broken leg and died from complications from that. My second 'litter' was from a rehome i'd gotten from a classmate who had 1 stillborn kit after she got to me. I'm starting to dab into breeding again, and so far, so good, but I've also only had one litter. That means only 1/3 of my births have been 'successful'. So no, it has nothing to do with the numbers you have.

I hear you all and am listening. I was not aware our little guys are so distant from thier origins that even a natural biological function as mating is often times complicated and difficult. (I honestly thought they were like mice, and we have had those, and well you get the idea.....:hair: )

I do not believe I want to pursue this at this time, but will continue to ask my questions and educate myself. I will tell my wife the same thing and hopefully we can come to an agreement. If we want more chins, we will look (for the forseable future) at maybe getting one from a breeder locally or a pet store. (both out boys are from a pet store, and have uniquely differnent tempers but both seem healthy and lovable, towards us and each other) Maybe a chin rescue would be a good idea. We were considering a white or black chin, so we will see what happens.

Riven, I appreciate your insite and concern. Just know regardless of of what we call it, I believe you and am listening to the advise. Thanks to all for not flaming me and my question (well not too badly anyways. :cry3: ) and being mature enough to keep it civil. Another forum I belong to on cars, this 'type' of question would have led to an all out war!

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

I just wanted to applaud you for taking the time to listen to everyone's story. We all have great stories, good stories, and bad stories. I had to hand feed one kit for 3 days until I got her strong enough to go onto a foster mom. Lost a kit this afternoon to a first time mom. And had an awesome litter born yesterday that is thriving.

Then I have an interesting story. I got a call from my husband's coworker who is a vet, who like you had a girlfriend that wanted to get a pair for cute fuzzy babies. So they got a pair off from craigslist. 3 months later they got 3 cute fuzzy babies running literally around the house because they didn't have an appropriate cage. One by one those babies died. This pair was OWNED, BRED, and CARED for by a vet. His story made me sooo mad because this should of not happened.

Jessica

 

[Riven]

I also think you've taken this all great, many people freak out as soon as anyone says anything bad.

I am a breeder, and I will not tell people not to breed, I simply try to let them know it should be for the right reasons, bettering the breed.

Chinchillas in the wild are not necessarily fast breeders either, otherwise they would probably not be on the list for extinction. Rabbits are hunted for food and pelts in some areas just like chins were in the wild, but they are still thriving. Like you said mice... they're popping out big litters several times a year easy, chins may have a litter of 1-3 normally 2 times a year, if you get a breed back each time it could be 3 times. ( not saying this is how it should or shouldn't be done, just saying it's possible) so each female say produces 6 kits per year, consider how many of them in nature do not mature either due to predators, illness, birth issues, etc. Consider a rabbit or mouse who can produce so much faster, ideally nature did not make the chinchilla to be hunted like they have been, they were not evolved to produce as quickly as their rodent relatives. A chinchilla is designed by nature to be on the go. The babies are born fully furred and ready to run, that is why they have the long gestation period (111 days). Although humans enable chins to survive when nature would not, they are by nature not a quick reproducing animal.

 

[tunes]

Honestly, this thread is pretty tame. My response to you was all that it should have been. Start reading the forums, all of them, learn about your chins, learn about breeding, learn about the bad things that can happen with breeding. Granted as you say, a large breeder may see more and have more difficulties just because of sheer numbers, but that doesn't mean that onesie twosie breeders don't have issues of a male being killed, kits being squished, a female needing a C-section, etc. ANY amount of animals in breeding can produce that result.

You are in Ohio and there are some really good shows there; Mansfield claiming show, Ryerson's field day, and the Jenera Empress show. No matter where you are located in Ohio, you should be able to go to at least one of those, if not all of them. If you are truly interested in breeding, that is the place to start. Go to the show, listen to the judges comments, see the chins being shown. Right next door in Auburn is MCBA Nationals. If you want to see the best of the best, the national level is where to go.

Also, as to the "limited breeding" comment. Take a look around the forum at all the folks who say "I'm not a breeder. I only breed a couple chins." If you put ONE pair of chins together with the intent to produce offspring, you are breeding. There's no other way around it. So the term "limited breeding" simply doesn't apply. That's why you got the responses you did.

 

[chinsNdobermans]

Definitely attend some shows if you are truly interested in doing this down the line. They are so educational and I have learned so much from them. Take the time to learn about quality before you start breeding, and take the time to get to know those in the industry and learn their stories. Find a good mentor, and be patient!

 

[broderp]

You are in Ohio and there are some really good shows there; Mansfield claiming show, Ryerson's field day, and the Jenera Empress show. No matter where you are located in Ohio, you should be able to go to at least one of those, if not all of them. If you are truly interested in breeding, that is the place to start. Go to the show, listen to the judges comments, see the chins being shown. Right next door in Auburn is MCBA Nationals. If you want to see the best of the best, the national level is where to go.

Help a noob, I can't seem to find a web site for any of these shows to look up times and dates. Aside from what ever fee for entry and parking, food etc... should I leave my wallet at home? (Fear of coming home with some unplanned furry friends)

 

[Megan]

http://www.mutationchinchillas.com will list the mcba shows (first two listed). Mansfield is normally held in October, and the Ryersons in May. Jenera show is ECBC, and I believe held in Jan.

 

[Twilight Chinchillas]

Help a noob, I can't seem to find a web site for any of these shows to look up times and dates. Aside from what ever fee for entry and parking, food etc... should I leave my wallet at home? (Fear of coming home with some unplanned furry friends)

The shows are often posted on the forum, just look under Chin Shows. This is where I always find out about the shows in our area.
Also, if you ever do get into breeding, as long as your open to criticism, and learning, and be open to learning, and not thinking you'll always know it all, is also an important factor in breeding. I had originally bred birds since I was 15, there were no real quality control. If it plucked,and was mean, breeders would think oh lets breed it, or worse yet they would flip the bird! I kept genetic records on my birds at that time (a lot of breeders in my area don't)
I got into chins after getting 2 for my kids. I automatically looked for a breeder, and luckily found someone who attended shows, and was very informative. I feel in love with our guys (kept them as pets) but liked the fact there was standards to improve the species, not just this will produce this, and that, if put together. We don't have a lot of breeders in my area, but still feel the need to help when I can, and do take in chins in need. I'm telling people don't do it if you aren't prepared for heart break, or use them as a cash cow,cause we all know that isn't going to happen. Do it to improve the breed if you must, and because you LOVE the species!

 

[Andrea]

I think the ONLY reason to breed is to, at the very least, preserve the integrity of the species...but ideally to better it. Breeding for "cute babies" is asinine when it comes to any species since all those cute babies become adult animals and...then what? Not to mention there is no guarantee that your chinchillas will breed, and if a pregnancy does occur it is possible that momma will have complications, or the babies will. Of course it could also go 100% a-ok...but why take the risk? My personal feeling is that it's best to leave breeding to the experts, and if you really want a kit then purchase or adopt one. However, if you are going to breed, make sure you show the animals you want to breed, you prepare 100% BEFORE breeding, and you have a mentor. Start with a pair...in fact, some mentors/breeders will sell pairs that are proven together. That might be a good place to start IF you are really sure about breeding. As a side note, I agree with others that "limited breeding" is an unnecessary term since breeding is breeding, regardless of scale. Good luck.