Kiwi broke her leg!!!!

[alpayton]

The further out of your comfort zone, the more likely at least some people aren't going to try. Yes, reference texts exist, but they tend to be scant on good info, and many vets who don't have a specific interest aren't going to have the books anyway. Yes, there's places on the internet, but the good ones are paid membership, and not everyone knows about them or are members if they do. Some vets are going to be willing to try, others are going to be afraid of killing the pet (because after all, accidentally killing an animal isn't why we're in the business) and are going to refuse. Further, just cos the vet is willing doesn't mean the tech (who is typically going to be doing the anesthesia monitoring) will want to try it. Most of us aren't in James Herriot land and have to turn our hand to anything that might come our way, and most people who choose a species or group of species to work with do so because they don't want to or aren't interested in doing anything else.

Honestly, I have to say that I have never run across a vet (that I've dealt with personally) who would not try anything at all to help an animal, be it one that they "deal with" or not. I have been in several offices over the years when a "strange" animal came in and did they say, "Oh sorry, that's a _____, we don't do ______" and send them on their merry way? No...they accepted said animal and told them they would do everything that they could to help it. Just because you may choose not to, doesn't mean that anyone should simply give up and say, "Oh well...since no vet around here advertises taking care of ______, I guess I'll just go wait for my animal to die." Why not try to get a vet, any vet, to take a look at the critter? Afterall, I thought that's why most vets become vets in the first place...for the love of animals. Oh wait, maybe that's love of the money.

 

[menagerie]

The further out of your comfort zone, the more likely at least some people aren't going to try. Yes, reference texts exist, but they tend to be scant on good info, and many vets who don't have a specific interest aren't going to have the books anyway. Yes, there's places on the internet, but the good ones are paid membership, and not everyone knows about them or are members if they do. Some vets are going to be willing to try, others are going to be afraid of killing the pet (because after all, accidentally killing an animal isn't why we're in the business) and are going to refuse. Further, just cos the vet is willing doesn't mean the tech (who is typically going to be doing the anesthesia monitoring) will want to try it. Most of us aren't in James Herriot land and have to turn our hand to anything that might come our way, and most people who choose a species or group of species to work with do so because they don't want to or aren't interested in doing anything else.

Hopefully Kiwi's doing well.

Thank god the two vets that treated the tripods I have here didn't have that kind of attitude. Lily had her amputation performed by an emergency vet who had never treated a chin before. The family wanted her PTS, but he convinced them to relinquish her to him. He had her on an IV for 8 hours to stabilize her before surgery because she was that bad off. I don't know what resources he relied on, but he did an outstanding job.

Sophie's surgery was performed by a dog/cat vet at county animal control that had never worked on a chin before. He consulted a local exotics vet to ask for advice and performed the amputation. The family had brought her in to be PTS because they couldn't afford a vet. It was Sophie's lucky day that the vet unit was having a rare slow day, the vet tech had owned a chin in the past and the vet was willing to try as long as I was willing to take Sophie after surgery.

 

[Brittney]

I'm sure any vet will help as much as they can or are comfortable with, or might refer you to someone they know who is familiar with small mammals, or at least comfortable with such a task. That's why I'm in school to become an exotic vet..... We need more! Most vet offices will give you 2 options if they aren't comfortable. Either A) They will refer you somewhere but give you pain meds in the meantime or B) they will euthanize the animal to eliminate pain and suffering. Sad, but true, unfortunately.

My instructor was telling us about a lady that came in with a bird she had owned for 6 years that only had a minor URI. Her vet wasn't in until the following week due to a family emergency. She walked into a regular dog and cat clinic with her African Grey. The vet had never seen an African, let alone dealt with one. He told her he couldn't help her and was going to refer her to a place right down the street, literally 2 blocks away that SPECIALIZED in parrots and her response was "Well I like my doctor and I don't trust anyone else with my bird. I guess no one in this town gives a **** about my bird, so just put it to sleep” They gave her confirmation forms and she signed them and left, and the bird was euthanized. Sad, but it happens a lot. That's why you should have 2 or more vets handy that are comfortable and knowledgeable about the animal you have. My boys and all of my pets are in 5 clinic systems, just in case something happens. Rather play on the safe side.

 

[equus_peduus]

I'm not saying that all vets will not see exotics. I am also not saying that people not familiar with certain species can't do a good job. But there are a lot of vets who will not see certain species of animals for various reasons. I have a friend who's a horse vet who absolutely loathes cats. I know people who love dog and cat medicine, but wouldn't touch a bird to save their soul. I know exotics vets who are so out of touch with dog medicine that if it's anything more complicated than vaccines, they would rather refer. You all seem to be saying that even if there's a choice to take an animal to a vet experienced in that species, you should just go with any vet, because all vets should be able to treat all species. Yeah, true in theory, but definitely not true in practice. Yes, we can look things up, call people who know more, but that doesn't mean that we're going to have a good outcome. You don't always have a good outcome if you call a specialist for a phone consult with a particular problem in a species you are familiar with. You wouldn't take your horse to a bird vet. You wouldn't take your rabbit to a pig vet. But you are suggesting that dog-and-cat vets should "know it all" and deal with all species, regardless of whether they know anything about that species or not. Sometimes you have little choice (e.g., overnights/weekends). If someone walked in with an obviously ill exotic, we would probably try to at least stabilize it before sending them to someone with more experience, as long as the owner was aware that it's not a species we see normally.

I would certainly be willing to see exotic pets, and it's one of the few things I don't like about the job I have now that we don't see them. However, we have a board-certified, well-known bird vet less than a mile away, and we have three or four vets that see reptiles and small mammals on a regular basis within a 15 minute drive, and several within an hour's drive (two of which do emergency). The staff I work with are not comfortable handling exotic pets - a couple of them have dealt with them at past jobs, 10 or more years ago, the rest have minimal to no experience. We do not have the equipment (or modified equipment) to handle the differences in anatomy (including size) and physiology of exotic pets. The owner of the practice where I work has made the decision that, with several other good options for exotics pets in this immediate area, our clients and their pets are better served by taking their pets to those vets who are equipped and more up to date on the peculiarities of their species; we have a lot of clients who would bring us their birds, bunnies, and lizards if we saw them, because they like us. But we don't see the exotics frequently enough to get comfortable with them, because we try to send them to vets who are.

Even if I were to make an exception and see an exotic, then I would have no staff to safely restrain the pet (both for the staff and the pet's safety - I wouldn't want a budgie to die due to incorrect handling, wouldn't want someone bit by a snake, or get a rabbit broken because someone didn't know what they were doing), I would have to be working with information that is at best second or third hand (even if I were to call an exotics vet for help by phone, maybe I'm not seeing something that is important). I may have minimal ability to perform certain diagnostics (pulling blood on a small bird or a rat isn't all that much fun, and can be difficult if they're not restrained properly, or very ill... lung x-rays on a turtle require that you be able to turn your xray tube head sideways... getting good x-rays on many species require anesthesia, and we don't have the drugs that are helpful for a smooth, safe anesthetic event for some of these species (we could *do* anesthesia and it would probably come out ok, but there are things you can do to make it safer, which we don't have)... there's dozens of examples). Some treatments may be difficult (intubating a bird isn't hard... but requires tubes of the right size. Intubating a rabbit is difficult, and also requires tubes of the right size. Giving fluids to an angry iguana isn't fun, especially if whoever's holding the iguana isn't comfortable doing so. Dosing meds for a rat can be kind of interesting if the smallest you've got is cat-sized.) I have the ability to perform good quality dog and cat medicine, with staff who can handle and restrain dogs and cats with (in most circumstances) fairly minimal stress and fuss. I do not have the facilities or staff to perform good quality exotics medicine.

This isn't to say that I haven't or wouldn't treat exotics... but at this point, it is not in the pet's best interest. There will always be circumstances when trying, even if one's not comfortable, is going to be the best option a particular pet has. I should hope that in this circumstance, most vets would try. But whenever there is an option, I think most vets would much rather that people take their pets to someone who is more comfortable with a particular species, if they themselves are not. We try to get our dog and cat patients to go to a specialist if a particular problem is beyond our capability to diagnose or treat optimally. We try to practice best medicine, which includes referring to specialists whenever necessary. But if someone can't go to the specialist for whatever reason (and there are a lot of reasons), we get the specialist on the phone, and do the best we can.

I don't get asked to see exotics very often, because I'm not answering the phone when people first call. The receptionists answer the phone, and give people the phone numbers of hospitals that do. It's a pretty uncommon circumstance (like, maybe 3-4 times in the last year) when I am directly asked if, just this one, I will see a _____. If there's a semi-legitimate reason that a patient can't be seen by someone with more experience, I would do it, but the owner is made aware that it's not a species we regularly work with. However, pretty much the only exotics I've seen have been been very sick pets for euthanasia, which is pretty depressing.

I want to eventually leave my current practice to go to a practice where I will be able to learn and practice exotics medicine as well as dog and cat medicine. In the meantime, I read journals, follow the online veterinary message boards, and try to do the best I can for the species our practice does see.

It would seem we've gotten rather off topic. Perhaps a mod should take all these posts and make a new thread, because the turn of conversation probably isn't helping the OP much...

 

[Gizmo24]

good points, well written. The emergency vet that I work with is not an exotic specialist. She has become familiar with chinchillas mostly through Gizmo she told me. But each and every single time I call, even if I was there yesterday the receptionist tells me 'the doctor is willin to see a chinchilla but she is not an expert in that animal, but she'll take a look at him and see what she can do if anything" so far shes been wonderful. Im glad they are honest, I'd hate to have a vet just do anything and not be knowledgable about what they are doing. Yes, in emergency situations it can save their lives but sometimes it can be more harmful to the animal like she said above. I do wish there were more exotic vets in this area.

 

[Riven]

I've working in three vets, and we never turned away anything, even if we didn't know that much about it. Maybe in some clinics people don't even improvise, but we did, a lot.

Holding a rabbit is not that much different than holding anything else, and from my experience I find it hard to believe that in any decent sized ( which here is 3 vets ) clinic you could not find a tech willing to try. As a vet tech ( or a vet, or even a kennel person or receptionist ) you know that you're going to have to deal with animals and some may not be friendly, it shouldn't be a surprise, this isn't happy land were we just play with puppies all day.

A broken leg doesn't require anything special to treat that a cat and dog vet wouldn't have and you can always mask the chin if you don't have a small enough tube, not as effective but it would work in an emergency.

I think the "don't have the right stuff, staff isn't trained" attitude is a large part of why I decided not to be a vet and quit doing tech work, too many vets have it, and way too many might have started caring about animals, but quickly gave that up in lieu of the money.

I have two vets I trust for my chins, the other there could treat them but I prefer to deal with Brad, then Pat first. Either of them would try anything once to help an animal. Pat has been working and now also has her certifications for pet acupuncture and chiropractor, and she works under an idiot who doesn't promote it, he's one who just worries about the money, not the pets.

I know this is probably going to hit some people in a bad spot, but what I just read in that was, vets would rather let an animal suffer and die on its own because they don't have the "right stuff" to treat it or it's too hard to do, or they haven't done it before. I'm glad I don't live by those vets. Brad is great, he studies and researches, and he makes crap for a living, I know. He never treated chins before someone brought him one, so he learned, and he learned what he needed to treat them so he could get it for the next time.

 

[tunes]

Actually Gizmo, Nicole's post was the good one and I agree 100%. The previous post sounds like nothing but excuses as to why a vet wouldn't see an animal in need. We're not talking about a little thing here that can be put off. We're talking about a dangling limb. ANY vet, especially a small animal vet, can see a small animal with a dangling limb. Would I expect an exotic vet to come out and deal with a horse with a broken leg? No, of course not. But IMO there is no logical excuse for an office to turn away an animal in need, when the animal can be brought to them.

Again, I bring up my previous experience with a broken leg being amputated. At that same vet's office, I had a chin being seen who was losing weight and refused to eat. I took her to my high dollar, swanky vet, who actually SEES exotics. The regular vet I see wasn't in, so I saw the idiot instead, out of desperation. Again, he is the lead vet in a clinic that specializes in exotics. I told him I wanted lab work drawn. He informed me that it was impossible to draw lab on a chin, and that basically I should just put her down and get a necropsy done to find out what happened. Gee, that's news to me and all the other vets who have drawn lab work.

I went back to the horse/dog/cat clinic, in tears, and said is there anything at all you can do? You did such good work on my little girl. The vet tech, not the vet, said - well, let's see here. You draw blood on little teeny kittens on the back legs, so if you're willing to help hold her, we'll see if we can get some blood drawn and off to the lab. This woman had never seen a chin before the one I brought in with a broken leg, but she didn't hesitate to try and help this desperately ill animal. There was no "Oh, we don't DO that here." These people dove in and they took care of business.

At least the vet that the OP found was willing to take in the chin and administer pain meds and stabilize it until a more qualified vet could see the animal. That's a whole step up from excuses as to why you can't; i.e., because you don't like them, or you don't have the stuff, or whatever else. Either you are in it to take care of animals or you aren't. From what I understand from different vets, there is pretty much nothing taught in the past at vet school for exotics anyway. So if you don't look stuff up on the internet, or check reference books, or call someone more experienced, you won't know what to do anyway. Why would you not at least try?

 

[mishellyshel]

i hope kiwi gets the care she needs & deserves.
i agree with peggy..........whenever my vet was/is unsure of something with Richie, she either consults her book for proper dosage be it medication or anethesia or she consults with a specialist. she also takes advice from me (that of course i got here!) and will try new things based on what she thinks is best for my pet. she has always tried whatever she could to help.

 

[Brittney]

Holding a rabbit is not that much different than holding anything else, and from my experience I find it hard to believe that in any decent sized ( which here is 3 vets ) clinic you could not find a tech willing to try.

Some techs just aren't comfortable with the restraint of certain animals. If you don't restrain a rabbit's back legs correctly, you bet your buttons they are going to kick and scratch at you until you let them go. This can cause spinal injury to the rabbit, and little bunny foo foo is dead. Some techs basically say screw it and don't want to touch it. I personally believe that if you are going to get into the animal field that you need to know your stuff. Even if you aren't at an exotic clinic, for petes sake, learn how to restrain every animal. Heck, I know how to restrain cattle, sheep and goats from working with my grandfather. Not saying I'm going to be seeing one any time soon, but if one comes in for an emergency, I've got it covered. I laughed when reading my restraint book the other day. It was telling us how to restrain pigs. I thought it was completely out there and wasn't worth studying. I applied for a job at Arizona Skies in Cave Creek which is where I take my chinnies most of the time now. They asked if I knew how, or if I was comfortable with the restraint of pigs. I laughed and asked why. Apparently they see anywhere from 3-5 potbellied pigs in a single week. Needless to say I got home and stuck my nose in the book and studied up on those skills. No reason why someone in the veterinary field should just stop learning because they have a degree. Medicine changes all the time, you need to keep on top of it.

 

[Bethany2386]

Alright, so any news on Kiwi? I hope that she is ok. I am so sorry that you have had this experience. I want to be updated please when you get a chance. Poor baby!

 

[Brea]

I totally agree Brittany. Thats one of the reasons I got hired at my vet clinic was my wide variety of experiance with animals. Even if clinics don't normally see exotics they can usually do basic care or refer to a place that can take care of them. We are a dog/cat clinic but every time a guinea pig or a rabbit comes in they always have to check that I am on the schedual cause no one else feels comfortable holding them. Its rediculous, they really need to know how to hold and handle most animals not just dogs and cats.

Hope Kiwi is doin ok. Good luck!

 

[randro]

Kiwi hass been home and recovering great!

 

[Harleychin]

I'm glad she's feeling better.

 

[CerLynn]

Did they end up amputating? Glad to hear she's doing well at home - she'll be back to normal before you know it!

 

[addictedtochins]

Oh, I'm so glad. She has been through quite an ordeal, poor baby.

 

[mishellyshel]

that is great news! i hope kiwi makes a full recovery.

 

[tunes]

What did they do for her? Was it broken? Did you have it amputated or pinned?

I'm glad she's home and doing well.